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OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 4:09:18 PM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		The forum members are the best-informed folks about all things WW2 so I'm hoping you can help me find the answer to this question: What information did the French resistance actually have about D-Day before the landings actually began. I know they received word that the invasion was imminent but I also understand that the exact place & the exact day/time was among the most closely held secrets of the war. Can anyone point me to a definitive reference on this?
Post #: 1
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 4:37:46 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		From what I've read, Every group had a task to carry out. They just had to listen to there radio and wait for code words. I don't remember if they knew why they where doing those tasks, but they knew it was inportant to get them done. If you google D-Day, there is a web site, I don't remember the name, that has all kinds of info about the landings....GP

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 4:40:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I haven't seen a reference, but I know that on the signal some of the Resistance groups just implemented their previously delivered orders to destroy transport and communications infrastructure over a wide area. There would be no reason to tell them exactly where the landing would be.

There may have been some resistance groups that were not activated by the signal because they were too far away from northern France and German reinforcements were not expected from their area.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 5:02:36 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Most, but not all, were code phrase activated. Codes were distributed in the years leading up to the actual invasion by agents landed ashore, and then network distributed via cell structure.

Some had focal point action (a bridge, for example, or a person or unit to interdict), some just had lighting a flare at a certain point & time. Some cells were just to get tide levels across an annual timeframe. I read one cell had a mission of getting beach composition samples back.

So, to answer your question I don't think any resistance cell 'knew' the date. They were just given tasks to perform once a code phrase was broadcast. I'm at work, so no access to a library, but there are several great documentaries out on resistance actions from all the countries that were occupied.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 6:17:52 PM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses. It is consistent with what I've heard before that no one in the resistance knew Normandy was the chosen target or that June 5 (the landing was postponed) or June 6 was the day of the operation.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 6:30:25 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		The sort of infrastructure attacks they made would likely be worth carrying out regardless of the landing site. Slow German movements by rail and over bridges everywhere from Brest to Calais.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 9:00:07 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GI Jive

Thanks for the responses. It is consistent with what I've heard before that no one in the resistance knew Normandy was the chosen target or that June 5 (the landing was postponed) or June 6 was the day of the operation.


"The Resistance" was not a coherent whole with a unified command structure or singular goal uniformly supportive of the Allied goals. There were some collaborationist plants, some communist sympathizers, some DeGaulists, some closet Vichy, etc. etc. It was pretty quickly realized that they could not be trusted with top secret information that would jeopardize such a critical Allied operation.

They were given tactical marching orders per command. As much as they 'needed to know' and not more.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 9:16:06 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Operation Dingson
Opération Samwest
Violet plan: sabotage of communication lines
Green plan: sabotage of railway lines

http://www.dday-overlord.com/en/battle-of-normandy/resistance

"In the early hours of June 6, 1944, while the American and British scouts jumped over Normandy, 36 commandos belonging to the 4th Special Air Service (SAS) French Battalion (future 2nd Régiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes) were dropper over Brittany. They were divided into four teams of nine personnel each: two (commanded by Lieutenants Deschamps and Botella) jumped around the forest of Duault in the Côtes-d’Armor (Operation Samwest) around 12:30 am and two dropped near Plumelec in the Morbihan region (operation Dingson)."

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/20/2017 9:17:22 PM >

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 9:20:59 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Status: offline 		"Secret messages were broadcast on the eve of D-Day alerting SOE agents and resistance forces to make ‘maximum effort’ in carrying out acts of sabotage. Earlier messages warning of the impending invasion had been broadcast on 1 May and 1 June. These were picked up by the Nazi Security Services and reported to the High Command. But these warnings were not acted upon and therefore did not endanger the landings by giving away the element of surprise."

http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/spies-saboteurs-and-d-day

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Post #: 9
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 9:26:57 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Allies alerted the French that it was time to begin sabotaging rail-lines: they had the BBC broadcast lines from Paul Verlaine's poem "Chanson d'automne." On June 1, to tell the resistance to stand by for further alerts, the BBC transmitted the first three lines:

"When a sighing begins
In the violins
Of the autumn-song".

"The Germans wrongly believed that these lines were addressed to all Resistance circuits in France, and that when the next three lines were broadcast it would mean that invasion would follow within forty-eight hours," Martin Gilbert writes in his history of D-Day. "

"The lines were directed to a single Resistance circuit, Ventriloquist, working south of Orléans, instructing it to stand by for the next three lines, which would be the signal for it to carry out its railway-cutting tasks — in conjunction with the Allied landings."

"Believing, rightly, that the broadcast of the section of the poem was related to invasion, but wrongly, that it was an Allied call for railway sabotage throughout France"

https://www.vox.com/2014/6/6/5785954/how-paul-verlaine-helped-the-allies-pull-off-d-day


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Post #: 10
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/20/2017 9:37:43 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		"According to a new book, “The French Secret Services,” by the historian Douglas Porch, even those few French who risked their lives to gather military information for the allies or helped smuggle downed American and British airmen to safety often did it more for the money than out of patriotism."

"The romantic image of selfless French men and women in berets and leather jackets blowing up bridges and ambushing columns of German soldiers on lonely country roads has become one of the most persistent wartime legends."

"Porch contends almost nothing of the sort actually happened. Porch’s account has set the French seething."

"When Albert Speer, who headed German war production, was asked after the war about the effect of the French Resistance, he replied, “What French Resistance?”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1996/jan/20/french-couldnt-resist-romantic-version-of-war/

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/20/2017 9:38:53 PM >

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/21/2017 12:32:44 AM   
GI Jive


Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		All good info. I had read "Bodyguard of Lies" many years ago - it contained some info about DeGualle & the resistance. I'll have to track down a copy. I mostly wanted to find out if there has been any more recent research on the topic. It seems like the exact time & exact location was never disclosed to anyone in France. Thanks, forumites!

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Post #: 12
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/21/2017 2:58:09 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Not the answer to your question, but I am always compelled to respond to D Day inquiries.

http://29infantrydivision.org/WWII-Stories/Clark_Robert_F.htm

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/22/2017 5:01:49 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline 		"Bless my heart with monstrous languor"

Sorry the old "DDay film line always comes to mind"

Much of the points have been made above but in summary.

There was SAS / SOE saboteurs specifically dropped prior to D Day with specific tactical targets to assist the invasion. Their knowledge of details would have been specifically limited to minimize damage should they be captured.

There was the 'general French resistance' which General Patton characterized as: 'less than advertised, more than expected' or something along that line. Anthony Beevor outlined it in his book on D Day.

As Indicated above the home French resistance were a mix mash of Communists, former Spanish civil war vets (socialists, anarchists, and Spaniards relocated in France) and general French population including especially staunch Catholics and militarist.

They may have been given any number of general disruption goals which were meant to be supportive of an invasion but not specific to supporting the invasion.

Attacks on the Melice (fascist secret police) come to mind especially in the south of France prior to landings in the south of France.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/22/2017 10:54:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

"Bless my heart with monstrous languor"

Close - it was "Wounds my heart with monotonous languor".
But since the French word for wound is "Blessé", I can see where you got crossed up somewhat.

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RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/23/2017 10:13:26 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		You've wounded my heart with a monogamous langor.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/23/2017 2:17:25 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

You've wounded my heart with a monogamous langor.






This animal is looking for Ted Drewe's...

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Post #: 17
RE: OT Operation Overlord - 11/23/2017 2:33:24 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

"Bless my heart with monstrous languor"

Close - it was "Wounds my heart with monotonous languor".
But since the French word for wound is "Blessé", I can see where you got crossed up somewhat.





I sit corrected ....

My version on VHS (no less) had the French speaking french and Germans speaking german

Ver Vooten mine hartz mit....



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A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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Post #: 18
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