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RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters

 
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RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/27/2018 3:07:04 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I don't see that difference, the counter graphic on the right and the small depiction on the left are the same in the scenario I use(Operation Neva).
Even if I see a difference is of no help because I need to know what color ID uses what graphic file. How else should I find the graphic file the formation is supposed to use?
In your example, which of these graphic files does the formation use?
units_1_012_0.png
...
units_1_yellow_4.png


The answer would be none of course. You need to read up on how to recolor the counters and the different way they are represented. The new way is more streamlined as far as coloring but the counter sheet, the one that has the different icons, is less friendly to being modded. So there's some good and there's some bad. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but it took me about two minutes to understand how to color these things.


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Post #: 31
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/27/2018 4:29:38 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		@Curtis Lemay
But these counter files were used in TOAWIII, the ID values do not help at all if I don't know what files originally corresponded to which color ID.

@Lobster
Again it's not about the process of recoloring, that one is clear, It's about finding out which color the designer intended to be used for a specific formation, and that can only be done if I know what graphic file was used for the formation specific color ID. If I don't know that I can't even start the process of recoloring.

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Post #: 32
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/27/2018 4:33:25 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

@Curtis Lemay
But these counter files were used in TOAWIII, the ID values do not help at all if I don't know what files originally corresponded to which color ID.

@Lobster
Again it's not about the process of recoloring, that one is clear, It's about finding out which color the designer intended to be used for a specific formation, and that can only be done if I know what graphic file was used for the formation specific color ID. If I don't know that I can't even start the process of recoloring.

Then you have to go back to the TOAW III graphics and compare the colors on each of those original files to the colors shown on the shot in post #3. Then you'll know which file corresponds to which ID.

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Post #: 33
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/27/2018 5:30:56 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		There must be an easier way as it has to be hardcoded what color ID uses what file.
The names I posted are the same names as used in the BMP files that TOAWIII started with before PNGs were supported. All that is stored in a scenario file is the color ID, so what file is used for that color ID must stored somewhere else and I would say it's hardcoded in the EXE file because I've seen no modified graphics that use names different from the originals they replace.
Either Ralph has to help here or maybe some TOAWIII still have that information somewhere stored.

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Post #: 34
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/27/2018 8:07:07 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Duke, see if this doc helps you with whatever you are trying to do. This doc isn't anything official, it is simply something I put together for my own use.

The first column is what I call them, and it corresponds to the color palette we see in the editor.

The second column is what TOAW III calls them. The third column was for the Numbers file but I never completed it as it was too much work.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 35
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/28/2018 9:35:25 PM   
BigDuke66


Posts: 2013
Joined: 2/1/2001
From: Terra
Status: offline 		@sPzAbt653
Thanks, that was a good help.

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Post #: 36
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 1/9/2019 12:27:41 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Bob,

Is the ability to change unit counter colors tied to a particular TOAW IV version? I've got the .11 version and went through the procedure you described -- but there is no change. A bit confusing.

Thanks and Cheers

... on edit: had the .col file in the wrong scenario folder. Has to be under graphics override, which makes sense.

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 1/9/2019 12:42:25 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/20/2019 10:02:41 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
quote:

The only program required to convert from hexadecimal to decimal is the Windows Calculator.

I'm not talking about the one process of conversion from Hex to Dec, a bunch of other programs are required to convert our original counter sheet colors to the new ones. [And if you ask, I will be attempting to convert the Russian Campaign scenario soon, and will post about the non-trivial process that is required].

quote:

And you are fudging the truth, big time, all over this board.

I am not fudging anything, I am being honest in the processes involved and in the restrictions that are now imposed. I am all over the board only in response to others, I have not started anything on my own. Everyone has the right to know what has happened, especially when they ask or comment about it.


I'm in favor of nipping this problem off in the bud. The solution to this problem is obvious: fix the program so that the scenario designers don't have to jump through all these hoops. Make it as easy as possible for the user. Make the computer do as much of the work as possible. Yes, a lot of the legacy scenarios are going to need adjustments but I would hazzard the guess that it would be less than perhaps 50 such scenarios and I suggest that's not too many to be a game stopper in this reguard. The idea is to boldly step into the 21st century when possible and it's innovations like this that makes TOAW even greater as time passes. The Equipment editor is another great leap forward. Don't be afraid of progress. I agree with Steve....make designing scenarios as easy as possible. I'm afraid that you might regret it if you don't. Reading through this thread I've counted the things that need to change to make it easier for scenario designers and they are several. I'm just telling you how I really feel about it. This dragging of the feet at every needed change is holding up a much greater product.


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Post #: 38
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/21/2019 9:20:59 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Well put Larry. We in the community are sadly in a battle with developers. TOAW IV was three steps forward and two steps back, and there is currently no reason to think that TOAW V will be any different.

If we are silent, we won't be heard.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 39
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/21/2019 9:45:47 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Anything that allows more flexibility in scenario design can't be bad.

_____________________________

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 40
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/28/2019 12:17:22 PM   
gliz2

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/20/2016
Status: offline 		Because of the legacy code not much can be achieved.
Some basics though are missing which are not related to the above:
1. The counters per colours/country
2. The no animation movements (even if set to 0 it is with animations)
3. Icon for units that are digging in (I'm always confused whether a particular unit do dig in or was it moved)
4. Better panels (some good work done but some is missing)
5. 4k resolution support (now it's done by some modding)

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 2/28/2019 12:30:15 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 2/28/2019 2:31:54 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Why bother with 4k when 8k is just around the corner and then 16k and then 32k and then 100million k. Instead of focusing on a certain 'k' make it possible to display in any resolution or definition.

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to gliz2)
Post #: 42
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 2:56:05 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		I'm getting frustrated again...I've revised a col file but cannot get it to show up in the scenario editor...I've tried putting it in:
--a scenario subfolder under graphics override;
--directly in the graphics override folder;
--the main scenario folder;
--in a scenario subfolder under the scenario folder.

Nothing works...

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 43
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 4:36:10 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I'm getting frustrated again...I've revised a col file but cannot get it to show up in the scenario editor...I've tried putting it in:
--a scenario subfolder under graphics override;
--directly in the graphics override folder;
--the main scenario folder;
--in a scenario subfolder under the scenario folder.

Nothing works...


The .col file has to match the scenario name. Thus is the scenario name is "Rhine", the .col file should be named "Rhine.col" and be found in a folder called "Rhine" under graphics override.

Re: editor. I found that if I had TOAW open when I put the .col file in the proper folder, I had to back out of TOAW and restart it for the .col file to be loaded and change the colors.

Cheers

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 44
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 4:40:37 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		But I've placed the named col file in the named folder, and exited and re-entered the game...but the "counter color picker" in the editor does not show the revised color scheme. Is it supposed to, or are the new colors only reflected on the counters themselves rather than in the force editor's "counter-color picker"? I'm just not getting something...

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 45
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 4:43:11 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

But I've placed the named col file in the named folder, and exited and re-entered the game...but the "counter color picker" in the editor does not show the revised color scheme. Is it supposed to, or are the new colors only reflected on the counters themselves rather than in the force editor's "counter-color picker"? I'm just not getting something...


Right, they do NOT show in the "counter color picker". If you click on a color, though, the new colors -should- show on the counter itself. You'll have to have the color scheme you designed nearby to know which color square to click on in the editor.

Cheers

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 46
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 4:46:53 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244
Right, they do NOT show in the "counter color picker". If you click on a color, though, the new colors -should- show on the counter itself. You'll have to have the color scheme you designed nearby to know which color square to click on in the editor.

OK then duh, that is what I have been missing. I will check to see if it is working after all... Thanks!

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 47
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 5:07:14 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244
Right, they do NOT show in the "counter color picker". If you click on a color, though, the new colors -should- show on the counter itself. You'll have to have the color scheme you designed nearby to know which color square to click on in the editor.

OK then duh, that is what I have been missing. I will check to see if it is working after all... Thanks!



The "color picker" buttons appear to be part of a series of image files starting with the name "Standardbuttons" in the game's installation directory "Graphics" folder.

Not sure if those could be copied into a scenario folder and the colors changed as one wished so that the picker would show the changes. Be a lot of work.

Cheers

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 48
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - 11/18/2020 5:16:28 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		OK, got it. Seems to be working. Would love to get the counter color picker to show the right colors but doubt I'll be willing to spend the time to do it...

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Post #: 49
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/18/2020 6:15:09 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		You should see some of the mods I have done, lol.

The Next War 1979 is a great example of using the color file to make the counters look exactly like the 1970's SPI colors (have done the same with CFNA and others), but when you look at them in edit mode you still have the standard icons in the edit Forces dialog, but while deploying or playing the game these dialog boxes show the correct color changes.


Just an overview of the modified counter colors (using my 2D board war game flat counters and my custom color file):

2D Large:


The Unit Report shows the correct colors:


The Formation Report shows the correct colors:


The Order of Battle shows the correct colors:


The Air Unit Report shows the correct colors:


The Expected Reinforcements shows the correct colors:


The Recent Reinforcements and Withdrawals shows the correct colors:


2D Large:




I think my color changes look fantastic I might add...I have redone around 20 or 25 of the stock games colors and have about 5-10 modified (lost maybe) scenarios and other interesting ones that I have updated to use the newer features of TOAW IV. I do plan on posting these by the end of the year or sooner as they get finished.

The color mods will go first since its mainly just an color xml file change.

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Post #: 50
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/18/2020 10:41:26 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Indeed, they look good. Thanks for the efforts.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 51
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 12:52:16 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Now I'm frustrated again; some of the color changes work, some don't. Here is an excerpt from the col file:
<COLOR ID="5" MainBackground="10257457" Background="16250871" Foreground="8652808" Numbers="15527148"/>
<COLOR ID="6" MainBackground="10257457" Background="16250871" Foreground="0" Numbers="15527148"/>
<COLOR ID="7" MainBackground="10257457" Background="16250871" Foreground="14549033" Numbers="15527148"/>
<COLOR ID="8" MainBackground="10257457" Background="16250871" Foreground="255" Numbers="15527148"/>
<COLOR ID="9" MainBackground="10257457" Background="16250871" Foreground="12982296" Numbers="15527148"/>

The background for all of them is the same, and yet some of them show different colors. What could the issue be now?

[EDIT] It seems to work if I save the scenario twice after opening it with the new col file...bizarre.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/19/2020 1:06:28 AM >

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Post #: 52
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 1:16:36 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Tom,

I plugged in your ID 9 and it seems to work.

Try this:

<COLOR ID="5" MainBackground="16711680" Background="16711680" Foreground="0" Numbers="0"/>
<COLOR ID="6" MainBackground="16711680" Background="16711680" Foreground="16777215" Numbers="16777215"/>
<COLOR ID="7" MainBackground="65280" Background="65280" Foreground="16777215" Numbers="16777215"/>
<COLOR ID="8" MainBackground="16777215" Background="16777215" Foreground="0" Numbers="0"/>
<COLOR ID="9" MainBackground="16776960" Background="16776960" Foreground="0" Numbers="0"/>

Just some crazy colors...

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Post #: 53
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 1:18:06 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		You should not have to save it twice.

Once I have a scenario defined, then if I make any edits or create a new color file, then I just reload the scenario in the editor, its a pita, but its the only way to refresh things. Too bad you can't hit r or F5 or something to refresh the counters.

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Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
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Post #: 54
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 3:07:06 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		So updating another series of scenarios, here is the base:

Northern sector:


Southern sector:


Have about 12 more to map out and tweak for this group.

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Beta Tester for:
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Post #: 55
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 4:01:44 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

Too bad you can't hit r or F5 or something to refresh the counters.

Ctrl + R reloads the graphics but for some reason it doesn't reload the col file.

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Post #: 56
RE: Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters - The Next War 1979 - 11/19/2020 11:08:24 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yeah, I found that out a while ago (Ctrl+R), too bad and quite annoying.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 57
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