RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 8/31/2019 12:38:49 PM

VHauser

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I'm finishing the Commonwealth re-organization now. I'll do a quick review of the entire Allied OOB tomorrow. I need to take Monday off, but I'll start up again on the Axis OOB on Tuesday.

So far, I'm pleased with the results of the re-organization and I think you will be, too. The re-organized transportation values are consistent and reliable, and I believe that it improves the scenario enough to justify the time and effort spent. Onwards!

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/1/2019 6:08:15 PM

VHauser

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Petsamo.
After the Winter War, Finland ceded a strip of land between Kirkenes, Norway, and Murmansk, USSR, to the Soviets. In 1941, the Germans occupied that area and threatened Murmansk. In 1944, Finland declared their neutrality and made peace with the USSR. And while it's debatable whether Finland would do so in the alternate timeline of C47 (the original Europa 1947 says, "Yes", and I tend to agree with that), it's also unclear the status of that strip of land between Kirkenes and Murmansk. Currently (based on Europa 1947) that strip of land is under a Zone 2 exclusion, which means forever. However, a reasonable case can be made that that strip of land should be under a Zone 1 exclusion (which is lifted early in the scenario), which would open a corridor of operations between Norway and the USSR. [As an aside, I think that more than 2 exclusion zones are needed for TOAW.] Anyway, as of today I'm tending in the direction of opening that corridor using a Zone 1 exclusion. And that will require a few modifications to both the Axis and Allied OOBs. I'll decide by Tuesday.

India.
I've decided how I want to handle the Indian Independence event. If you've never played Europa 1947, you won't notice any difference. If you have, you will be pleased as the human (Allied) player since the odds of Indian Independence in 1947 are significantly reduced.

I'm still tidying up some loose ends with the Allied OOB (not related to Petsamo above). I need tomorrow off. Tuesday, I'm back at it.

< Message edited by VHauser -- 9/1/2019 6:12:09 PM >

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/4/2019 4:58:51 PM

VHauser

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Partisans.
I understand the reasoning that partisans are more trouble than they're worth. I have devoted many hours to make partisans "work" in C47. I could not have succeeded with TOAW3. TOAW4 allows me to do things that were impossible previously. But the question remains, "Was it worth it?" I'm going to leave partisans in C47 unless playing results show that partisans either break or make the game less enjoyable. The main reason is that I want to see if the mechanics I developed to handle partisans actually work. Anyway, now that I know exactly how I want to do it, I still have to go through the Axis OOB (the Allies are already done). This will probably take until this weekend.

Petsamo Corridor.
I've decided to make the Petsamo Corridor an Exclusion 1 instead of Exclusion 2. This will open a new operational area to the human player early in the scenario. The Soviet OOB will require some minor changes which won't take me very long. The Axis OOB will require a little more work, but I should be able to do both in a few hours.

Axis Minor Allies.
I need to revise all the Axis minor allies based on the changes I made to the Allied OOB. This is not a complete overhaul, but it will take some time.

Anyway, I should be able to finish all of the above in a week or so. Then I'll finally be able to get back to the Italians.

Here is my alternate C47 timeline for the Italians:
1940-42. Goes pretty much as historical, with the Italians suffering very heavy casualties, except that the 8th Army is not destroyed at Stalingrad, which is important.
1943-44. The Italians lick their wounds (the Allies, though victorious throughout most of N. Africa, are set back due to Spain and Turkey joining the Axis, which saves the Italian Army from extinction).
1945-46. The Italians have had time to replace all their previous losses as well as modernize and improve their training/combat effectiveness. This is thanks to the Germans who devote lots of technical assistance (manufacturing techniques, side-by-side combat training, licensed equipment, etc.).
The result is that by 1947 the Italian Army is bigger, stronger, and better equipped/trained.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/7/2019 9:41:41 PM

VHauser

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More Problems with Coastal Fortifications.
I'm going back to the drawing board regarding Axis coastal fortifications.

I don't mind leaving the Allies coastal fortifications easy to wipe out by Axis naval units (per the current rules). Even if the Axis wipe out all the coastal forts at Gibralter, Malta, and the entire English coastline, it's very difficult to get the PO to perform effective combined-arms/triphibious operations to take advantage. Malta is the most vulnerable, but it's also not as crucial to Allied success as it was in 1942. So, I just don't care if the Axis navies go wild shooting up Allied forts. But Axis coastal forts are fundamental to the success or failure of the entire scenario. I absolutely must get the Axis forts right. I've already tried three times, and three times I've failed. But I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to work on the "internal organs" of the Axis OOB. A significant part of the Italian OOB, and an even more significant part of the German OOB, is devoted to coastal defense. I don't know how long this will take, but it better not take more than a week or so or else frustration and stress will take a toll. So, back to the drawing board!

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/8/2019 2:40:31 PM

VHauser

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Well, thanks to an idea by sPzAbt653 and another sleepless night, I think I have a coastal-fort solution. I'll test it later today after I get some sleep. I have a busy day tomorrow away from the computer (I'm getting a new stove). I'll do more testing on Tuesday, and hopefully good news to report on Wednesday.

< Message edited by VHauser -- 9/8/2019 2:41:45 PM >

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/8/2019 2:56:19 PM

larryfulkerson

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gas or electric?

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/9/2019 11:16:24 PM

VHauser

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Gas. So far, so good.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/9/2019 11:18:40 PM

larryfulkerson

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oooooooooo gas you say. but that's a fossel fuel. you and I are part of the earth's carbon footprint.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/10/2019 11:13:40 AM

VHauser

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Larry,
My home is set up for gas, but I assure you that my carbon footprint is very small. I'm very aware of ecological/environmental issues.

Anyway, I've started testing my solution for coastal forts and so far the results are excellent. Implementing the new coastal forts (assuming successful testing) will take a few days to cover the entire scenario coastline and a some more revisions to the Axis OOBs (I'm not concerning myself with the Allies, they will keep their broken coastal forts).

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/10/2019 6:43:18 PM

VHauser

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Coastal Fort Test Failed.
The problem is that for every workaround I come with, it breaks something else. First round of tests went perfectly. But the second round revealed unforeseen consequences. My brain is fried right now and I'm pretty much out of ideas. I have one or two Hail-Mary things I can try, but it looks like I'm going to have to wait for the next TOAW update to fix coastal forts. I'm not giving up just yet, but it doesn't look good.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/10/2019 9:09:24 PM

VHauser

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Even though I haven't been able to work around the coastal forts malfunction, I have come up with some interesting tools in my quest to make this scenario playable. Here is a neat tool for when you don't want to put a formation on garrison orders, but you want the units in that formation to not move. Just add a movement inhibitor, and the unit will not move unless the movement inhibitor is destroyed.

NOTE: This only works for the PO and is worthless for a human player. [The Free French unit illustrated below is only for demonstration purposes.]

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by VHauser -- 9/10/2019 9:10:04 PM >

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/14/2019 1:06:31 PM

VHauser

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Partisans.
I'll be finished with partisans sometime next week.

Coastal Forts.
I had a breakthrough a few days ago and now coastal forts work. I've created a few coastal forts for testing purposes and I'll begin the process of placing them on the entire map as soon as I finish partisans.

Italian OOB.
I still have dreams of finishing the Italian OOB by the end of the month. I'll try to turn those dreams into reality.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/18/2019 1:02:10 PM

VHauser

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Partisan Problems.
Well, I've finished the partisan OOBs, but there is trouble. My basic house rule for partisans is that partisans may not leave the boundaries of their country. However, there are no national boundaries for Poland and Czechoslovakia since both of those nations ceased to exist when they were conquered/absorbed.

One option is to simply delete the Polish and Czechoslovakian partisans since they won't even appear until the Allies get close enough to trigger their entry. And that means that the Axis forces are already retreating, so the addition of a dozen partisan units won't matter much. [A similar argument can be made against the Italian partisans even though there are national borders for Italy.]

Another option is to create a complicated rule (think of epicycles to describe planetary orbits) to restrict the operations of Polish and Czechoslovakian partisans.

I'm strongly leaning in favor of deleting the Polish and Czechoslovakian partisans. [And maybe the Italian partisans, too.]

What do you guys think?

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/21/2019 11:54:04 AM

VHauser

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I decided to delete the Polish and Czechoslovakian partisans from the Allied OOB. By the time the Allies get close to the pre-war Polish and Czechoslovakian borders, the Axis will be in serious trouble already. Adding a dozen partisan units at that time won't make the game more interesting or challenging. For now, I've left the Italian partisans in the game, although they are in poor locations (there are no good locations). So, for now, I'm finished with partisans.

I'm also re-thinking what to do about the Romanian, Polish, and Bulgarian forces when they defect from the Axis. I'm now thinking about simply adding replacements into the Allied replacement inventory instead of adding several dozen units on the map. I believe that most Allied units will have very high proficiencies by that point in the scenario, so most Allied players will just disband those low-proficency Romanian, Polish, and Bulgarian forces anyway.

I'm almost finished with coastal fortifications. I've been doing a lot of testing and, for the most part, I'm satisfied with the results. The good news is that I've also been able to get some work done on the German and Italian OOBs because they both have extensive coastlines to defend. I still think I can finish with the Italian OOB by the end of the month.

I think that by 1947 Mussolini would be able to achieve his manpower goals, especially regarding his plans to expand the CCNN and the creation of his "M" battalions. The level of mechanization/motorization would be increased as well. My research indicates that historically Italian soldiers were (with a few exceptions) not as well trained, equipped, or led compared to the other industrialized nations. By 1947 I think that most of these issues would be resolved favorably.

Here is how I rank the overall combat quality of the Axis in 1947:
1. German
2. Hungarian
3. Italian
4. Romanian/Turkish
5. Spanish/Croatian/Slovakian
6. Bulgarian
7. Serbian/Misc.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/21/2019 11:58:08 AM

StuccoFresco

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Have you thought about making partisans entirely "abstract"? I mean, having them give malus to Axis supply or shock values through events instead of having them physically on the map?

I tell you this just because I have an innate aversion to too much units, and not being a fan of chasing small, mobile units around when they automatically retreat.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/21/2019 12:49:42 PM

VHauser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco

Have you thought about making partisans entirely "abstract"? I mean, having them give malus to Axis supply or shock values through events instead of having them physically on the map?

I tell you this just because I have an innate aversion to too much units, and not being a fan of chasing small, mobile units around when they automatically retreat.

Yes, I've thought about it. A lot. I know that the German OOB is going to take several months. During those months I will be creating anti-partisan units. Partisans have created headaches and frustration for me already. I've been tempted to scrap the whole thing and do what you suggest. The ONLY reason I'm leaving partisans in the game right now is curiosity. I'm curious to see if all that effort was worth it. It might turn out that partisans are not worth it (I actually suspect this to be the case). But I'm curious.

By the way, this is a huge scenario. 2,400-2,500 Allied units and probably the same for the Axis. This is a scenario for fanatic players.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/24/2019 12:48:23 PM

VHauser

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I'm getting a new computer tomorrow. It will take me a day or two to get it up and running. So, I probably won't finish the Italian OOB until Sunday or Monday.

The Italian RSI will be larger in 1947 than it was in 1944. Mussolini has had several more years to recruit/indoctrinate devoted fascists, including the youth from the classes of 1944-46. From what I have now, it looks like about a 30% increase in RSI strength compared to 1944.

Looking ahead to the Germans (which I should get started on in a week or so), the Waffen-SS will be greatly expanded. The Spiffing Brit pointed out upthread that SS recruiting efforts would intensify the longer they held control over occupied nations. Surprisingly (to me, anyway), one of the most fertile SS recruiting grounds is the Balkans, especially Croatia. And while I responded to The Spiffing Brit that the Western occupied nations were politically unreliable (especially after the battles in N. Africa 1942-43), the Germans were able to still get use out of them by using them as forced labor.

Albert Speer has had several more years to improve German industry. And for every addition of forced labor, that frees up German workers to become soldiers. So, basically, every deleted combat unit from a politically-unreliable occupied nation produces a corresponding German combat unit composed of former workers. This is a win-win situation from the German perspective--politically unreliables are converted into forced laborers which, in turn, allows the creation of additional German soldiers.

So, what you'll see is that Himmler is busy recruiting SS everywhere, but those unwilling to join the SS become forced laborers, which then creates more German soldiers from former German workers. Thus, the actual combat strength of the Germans increases. Further, with improved manufacturing due to Speer, those additional German combat units are very well equipped.

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/27/2019 6:23:58 PM

VHauser

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There have been complications getting my new computer up and running. But that means I've been able to finish up the Italian OOB on this old computer. It might be a while before my new machine is operational. In the meantime, this old machine is still mostly functional...

My 3-Month Plan.
I will be starting the German OOB in a few days.
October is going to be a very busy month for me with lots of medical appointments.
November and December are the holidays and spending time with my family.
During the next three months I will get as much work done on the German OOB as I can. The good news is that over the past year I've created more than 100 German test/benchmark units. I still need to refine those units, but the basic skeleton of the German OOB is mostly there. I hope to have happy news regarding the German OOB by the end of this year.

I don't know how often I'll be updating this thread until then, but I'll definitely check in from time to time. I probably want to play this scenario more than you do, so I remain highly motivated.

P.S. I've stayed out of the hospital for more than a year, now. My health has stabilized at around a 6 out of 10, which is better than I'd hoped. It took more than a year for the doctors to figure out how to keep me alive, and I take a shelf full of meds every day (most which have side effects), but I am absolutely more healthy today than I was last year. Onward!

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 9/27/2019 6:33:05 PM

btd64

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VHauser

There have been complications getting my new computer up and running. But that means I've been able to finish up the Italian OOB on this old computer. It might be a while before my new machine is operational. In the meantime, this old machine is still mostly functional...

My 3-Month Plan.
I will be starting the German OOB in a few days.
October is going to be a very busy month for me with lots of medical appointments.
November and December are the holidays and spending time with my family.
During the next three months I will get as much work done on the German OOB as I can. The good news is that over the past year I've created more than 100 German test/benchmark units. I still need to refine those units, but the basic skeleton of the German OOB is mostly there. I hope to have happy news regarding the German OOB by the end of this year.

I don't know how often I'll be updating this thread until then, but I'll definitely check in from time to time. I probably want to play this scenario more than you do, so I remain highly motivated.

P.S. I've stayed out of the hospital for more than a year, now. My health has stabilized at around a 6 out of 10, which is better than I'd hoped. It took more than a year for the doctors to figure out how to keep me alive, and I take a shelf full of meds every day (most which have side effects), but I am absolutely more healthy today than I was last year. Onward!

Good to hear that your doing better. Warms my heart.

Will stay tuned for the scenario....GP

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/25/2020 7:43:09 PM

VHauser

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Hi Everybody,

I have put Cataclysm 47 on indefinite hold. Simply put, the scenario is too complicated to be represented by TOAW in its current form.

The number of house rules kept growing and growing until nobody but me could understand (or be willing to use) them. Most of the house rules were political rules, which is probably beyond the scope of TOAW--and probably should be. But regardless, the scenario is silly fantasy without those myriad and complicated political rules.

The issues with supply points were insurmountable. Even if TOAW would increase to 800 supply points (which is enough for C47), the static/non-variable nature of supply points proved unworkable for me. If there were events that could: 1) add and remove supply points; and 2) vary the supply percentage of supply points, then that would probably solve the issues I had.

Two exclusion zones were not enough. Four or five might be enough, and eight almost certainly would be enough. But that is only part of the problem. If there were events that could add exclusion zones hex-by-hex, that would be ideal.

For what it's worth, I did manage to get the Allied OOBs 99% complete (around 2,500 units), and I got the Axis OOBs about 95% complete (around 2,600 units), with the Germans still with a little work to be done. That size alone would discourage all but the most fanatic players from attempting C47. Which means that even if I did finish it, only a handful of players would actually play it.

In any event, someday I might revisit C47. My health is stable at around a 6 on a scale of 10. With any luck (COVID-19 willing) I should probably be around for a few more years. Who knows?

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RE: Europa 1947 for TOAW IV - 5/18/2021 7:47:23 PM

RyanCrierie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VHauser
Since the AK-47 is the best assault rifle in the world, I'm debating whether the Western Allies be given licensed production rights (mainly as a means of repaying Lend-Lease).

West has their own assault/battle rifles:

For the US, it is:

T20E2 Garand -- basically the M-14 a decade earlier, select fire, detachable box magazine etc.
M3 Carbine, select fire, banana clip.

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