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- 5/27/2003 11:05:32 PM   
arethusa

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: GTA, Canada
Status: offline 		Sometimes if you move slow enough or you have enough other things going on to distract the Tiger, you could even move the ATG up close enough to a weak side without being detected.

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Post #: 31
- 5/28/2003 12:47:28 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyricist
[B]Hide the ATGs in woodland or similar area and wait for the Tigers to pass by then blast them in the rear? [/B][/QUOTE]

AH yes. Patience Grasshopper.

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Post #: 32
Re: Great Ideas - 5/28/2003 6:31:47 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buzzard45
[B]Any secrets on how to move an ATG into position without it being seen and blasted by every 42HMG for 25 hexes? [/B][/QUOTE]

Options:

A.) Suppress the enemy MG's with everything you've got. Use profilaftic fire (fire on suspected positions) if you have to.

B.) Make them come to you. Master Sun calls this meeting emptiness with fullness. ;)

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Post #: 33
- 5/28/2003 6:41:54 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Sometimes, you just have to keep moving up and back until the AT Gun makes his move and isn't spotted.

Ex. I moved an AT Gun right behind a hill with an HT, then I took several turns moving the AT Gun the one hex to the top of the hill. If it was spotted, I rescued it with the HT and tried again the next turn until I made the move without being spotted.

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Post #: 34
Re: Re: Great Ideas - 5/28/2003 6:47:22 AM   
LordCucumber

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/17/2003
From: Holland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]
B.) Make them come to you. Master Sun calls this meeting emptiness with fullness. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]

Ah.. another student of the Art of War.. That's more or less what I was referring to: fight on YOUR terms, thus lure the enemy to YOU instead of taking the fight to him if it is not advantageous. Good thinking!

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Post #: 35
- 6/9/2003 1:42:38 AM   
o4r

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/31/2003
Status: offline 		What make Tiger good is it long range gun. Smoke it and blast it with artillery. Any T-34 within 3 hexes range is capable of taking it out. KV-2 or any 152 close assualt gun is good enough to give it hell.

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Post #: 36
- 6/9/2003 2:58:26 AM   
STEELER13

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline 		[B][FONT=arial][COLOR=royalblue]YO ALL,
Very good advice here, but missing one vital factor...mobility. Tigers moving with infantry, move slow. If on the defense, as it sounds, do as the Russians did...a flexible defense, fire, retreat, fire, retreat, usually from different directions. DO NOT aim at the tiger(why waste shots) but eliminate the supporting troops. Then channel the tigers into your own killing ground(reverse slope is best in my opinion).
If attacking, again, mobility is best. Strike where the Tigers aren't(i.e. the weakest position), bypass the Tigers and go for rear objectives, make the Tigers move to you, on your grounds.
When you are going for the kill, suppress with small arms. You won't damage or rout, but you do button and reduce LOS for the Tiger.

Good Luck![/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

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Post #: 37
Popping Tigers........... - 7/4/2003 2:28:09 PM   
gainiac

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Bronx, NY
Status: offline 		I'm not afraid of Tigers, they're quite easy to take out if you coordinate the effort.

First off, when I spot a Tiger with my scouts he's already dead, it's only a matter of time.

Fact is when I spot a Tiger I get excited, not scared, because nothing is more fun than blowing up big kats that are unaware.

You need to determine where he's moving to, if he's moving, and set up an ambush.

That's the gist of it.

I never think of my forces in terms of seperate entities such as armor, infantry, artillery.............

You need to think of them as a multifaceted whole whose function is determined by their composition.

My recon sections typically consist of scouts, an FO, with jeeps a TD of some sort, and a medium tank for general support........

If I find a big cat with my scouts I determine his path of ingress and set up ambush with my TD, along with an arty barrage to button him up prior to me taking the shot.

I NEVER shoot at a "READY" Kat, you gotta button them first.....

If the kitty isn't moving the operation becomes a little more delicate because then you need to go to him.

Suppression via well spotted artillery will always be the key to victory when hunting big kats.

Above all you must be patient and if you need to approach the kitty do so with infantry from cover.

Remember that if a big kitty is giving you problems from a good overwatch position all you need to do is drop smoke on him.

88's aren't much good if they can't see anything..............

I don't see what all the hoopla is about 88's anyway, I find the American 90mm AA gun to be quite suitable in the same roll.......Punches holes in the biggest of kats while my M4's plug the IV's in their flanks...................

It's all about Recon, If you know where your enemy is and he isn't aware you've won the fight.

Martin:D :D :D :D

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Post #: 38
Re: Popping Tigers........... - 7/4/2003 3:11:18 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gainiac
[B]It's all about Recon, If you know where your enemy is and he isn't aware you've won the fight.[/B][/QUOTE]

Easy to say since the German recon/spotting ability blows @ss in general in SP:WAW :rolleyes:

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Post #: 39
terrain - 7/4/2003 7:48:06 PM   
MOTHER

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Melbourne ,Australia
Status: offline 		Tigers ,just give em to me!
I can always immobilize one or five when I drive them.GRRRRR.:(

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Post #: 40
Re: Re: Re: Great Ideas - 7/5/2003 2:32:58 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyricist
[B]Ah.. another student of the Art of War.. That's more or less what I was referring to: fight on YOUR terms, thus lure the enemy to YOU instead of taking the fight to him if it is not advantageous. Good thinking! [/B][/QUOTE]

of course good, but w/ all these tactics is a problem if your enemy has taken the middle map vic hexes ( say in a meeting ) and the game in this case is no longer a meeting more a advance for you.

so all the ambush / let them come to you tactics will no more work. most oppenents will be satysfied if they took the middle vic hexes area and not adcance further.

so, do you recommend on taking the vic hexes AFAP ?

i the past i took mostly the more cautioned, slow way in advancing, but perhaps this tactic should be changed to charge fast to the vic hexes, take them and set up defensive positions.

much depends on terrain + visibility of course.

not to forget luck ;)

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Post #: 41
Re: Re: Popping Tigers........... - 7/5/2003 2:38:48 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Easy to say since the German recon/spotting ability blows @ss in general in SP:WAW :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

not anymore in late 44 and 45 ( country caracteristics are still in the game ).

but i still wonder why the brits in these years are rated so bad ( july 44 for example they have some 60 - 70 morale and sometimes only 70 exp or so ). any answers ? or was that just a coinside ? and if fireflys with crews in this conditions have moved some hexes and then try to shoot they have sometimes only 8 - 15% hit change...

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Post #: 42
Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Ideas - 7/5/2003 1:30:43 PM   
gainiac

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Bronx, NY
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank W.
[B]of course good, but w/ all these tactics is a problem if your enemy has taken the middle map vic hexes ( say in a meeting ) and the game in this case is no longer a meeting more a advance for you.

so all the ambush / let them come to you tactics will no more work. most oppenents will be satysfied if they took the middle vic hexes area and not adcance further.

so, do you recommend on taking the vic hexes AFAP ?

i the past i took mostly the more cautioned, slow way in advancing, but perhaps this tactic should be changed to charge fast to the vic hexes, take them and set up defensive positions.

much depends on terrain + visibility of course.

not to forget luck ;) [/B][/QUOTE]



Well, If your enemy is going to camp out and not move, he's made it all the more easier to flank. Simply supress with arty and roll up an AT gun.

A tank that doesn't move is a dead tank.

If I'm playing a meeting engagement, I don't even bother with vhexes. I go out and hunt and kill the enemy. After I've killed the enemy taking vhexes is a given.

:D

Martin

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Post #: 43
Re: Re: Popping Tigers........... - 7/5/2003 1:31:25 PM   
gainiac

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Bronx, NY
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]Easy to say since the German recon/spotting ability blows @ss in general in SP:WAW :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

How so?

I'm curious,

Martin

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Post #: 44
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Ideas - 7/5/2003 5:10:19 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by gainiac
[B]Well, If your enemy is going to camp out and not move, he's made it all the more easier to flank.
[/B][/QUOTE]

most human enemys are not as bad on defense as the AI just to remind you ! :)

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Post #: 45
immobile tanks - 7/5/2003 9:32:23 PM   
STEELER13

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline 		[B][COLOR=blue]Yo All,
Keeping on the move is best for any army. An immobile unit, played by human or AI, is subject to spotted artillery fire. Again, eliminate support, suppress and attack from different directions. He is right, a player who doesn't move his Tigers is not very experienced. Best way to play a Tiger is the pop and shoot from afar method...you know, pop up over a ridge, take LONG RANGE SHOTS, and pop down before the enemy can get a bead on you, then move forward(or back) to next hill, and repeat. Keeping on the move and well supported makes a Tiger a very dangerous weapon and much harder to take down, but it can be done.
[/COLOR][/B]

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Post #: 46
- 7/5/2003 10:07:01 PM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		I've rarely had a problem my German scouts couldn't handle that I didn't make myself. Range: Zero. Weapons: Off. Move: 1 hex. Otherwise, with any nation, you're just asking for it.

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Post #: 47
Re: immobile tanks - 7/5/2003 11:24:38 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by STEELER13
[B][B][COLOR=blue]Yo All,
Keeping on the move is best for any army. An immobile unit, played by human or AI, is subject to spotted artillery fire. Again, eliminate support, suppress and attack from different directions. He is right, a player who doesn't move his Tigers is not very experienced. Best way to play a Tiger is the pop and shoot from afar method...you know, pop up over a ridge, take LONG RANGE SHOTS, and pop down before the enemy can get a bead on you, then move forward(or back) to next hill, and repeat. Keeping on the move and well supported makes a Tiger a very dangerous weapon and much harder to take down, but it can be done.
[/COLOR][/B] [/B][/QUOTE]

exact ! and in open terrain without much arty or air on your side the tigers or panthers are deadly. the only way to overcome them is in this case w/ greater numbers, you will lose a lot of M4 or T34 and you must have enough of them in this case, what is not always possible since in BPM battles mostly both sides have the same amount of points. even smoke can be useless since the cats can move to another position. or must use a lot of smoke to cover all possible enemy hill positions !

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Post #: 48
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Ideas - 7/6/2003 12:38:03 PM   
gainiac

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Bronx, NY
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Frank W.
[B]most human enemys are not as bad on defense as the AI just to remind you ! :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, but it's instantly much easier to kill an enemy if he ain't movin'!!!!

Personally I never make it obvious what I'm protecting or how....

good offense makes the best defense!!!!!!!!

;)

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Post #: 49
- 7/9/2003 11:16:37 AM   
Buzzard45


Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
Status: offline 		My favorite way is with a Typhoon and a 60mm rocket. [SIZE=3]Smart bombs are best.[/SIZE]

And I'll still bet my my 4 StuGs(88 points) against your pair Tigers(176points?).

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Post #: 50
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