RE: Mack's Retreat

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Napoleonics] >> Campaigns on the Danube 1805 - 1809 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Mack's Retreat

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RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/3/2018 6:47:52 PM

Soosh

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
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Here some unit stats. I couldn't find any of Buxhowden's units while shuffling through the stacks, and only half of Kutusov's, so didn't include them.

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Post #: 31

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/3/2018 6:51:13 PM

Soosh

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
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I think I just lost the campaign. The French took Vienna, which was defended by some reserve units (8,000 inf, 4,000 cav) and are about to take Linz and Enns. That means I can't set up my ops centre any longer, and without supplies I'm screwed. So there's no point in continuing, really.

I'd like to congratulate my opponent, Antoine Imbert, for an exciting game and want to add that this was the first time he defeated me. At least I inflicted heavy casualties on the French, both sides lost around 60,000 men.

Lessons learned: 1. Protect your capital 2. Use cavalry to scout more often 3. Protect your capital!

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Post #: 32

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/3/2018 7:52:25 PM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soosh

That's some interesting house rules you got there, might try them next time I play as the Coalition. Do you normally win using those rules, or do you get crushed by the French?

The AAR running here :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4297140

is the first time that I introduced the house rules into CotD, after doing some house rules for 'Piercing Fortress Europa'. In both cases the intention is to create a more historical effect and, at the same time, overcome some of the weakness in the AI.

The effect in CotD playing as Coalition, is that you need to be more careful, because your army is more vulnerable and less able to concentrate into a battle. The AAR is not finished, but it has been a helluva fight.

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Post #: 33

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/3/2018 8:08:52 PM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
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Well, looking at the unit stats, you kept your army in quite good condition, army confidence level stayed up and casualties are even, but did you give up too much ground, too easily.

'Wars are not won by evacuations', etc.

Either way, the best the Coalition can hope for is to stay in being, holding the ground is a bonus, but the key is striking the balance, between not giving up ground too easily and not getting caught in annihilating battles.

In the AAR (different campaign), I am trying to keep an Austrian army in being, use the Danube as a shield, and threaten the French flank if they head East. Also, looking for force multipliers, like river crossings to defend, or use street fights in cities to neutralise enemy cavalry and artillery. Avoid being caught on the move and try to get units closed up early on objectives for best performance in battle.

Here is the Victory Screen after one month (30 days) of the 'Charles Original Plan - Variant 1809'- as Coalition against AI French and it has been brutal.

Significant losses and shattered units on both sides, with low army confidence now for both sides, which is the cost of holding the ground west of PASSAU. I was helped by a reckless attack over the Danube by the AI NAPOLEON himself, resulting in the near destruction of DAVOUT's corps, but any contact with the enemy hurts the Austrians, especially with these house rules, but historically that's how it was.

Great game.

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< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 1/3/2018 8:32:32 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/3/2018 10:20:16 PM

Soosh

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
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I did use the same strategy in a previous game as the Coalition and got a marginal victory. But that was in v3.04 and with normal fog of war. And I rather give up ground and preserve my army than defending some small town to the last man. It could have worked if the French wouldn't have taken Vienna, but they did. I should've sent Buxhowden to Vienna and left him there, that was by far my biggest mistake.

But to be honest I don't really care if I win or lose, for me it's all about the experience (always a good excuse when you lose

). I like to immerse myself into the game and roleplay a bit. That's why I prematurely ended the game. I could have continued and, say, assaulted the French over and over again until my army was gone, but would that have been realistic? And what would have an Austrian CIC done in the same situation? The problem about playing wargames is that a lot of players don't seem to care much about casualties or the state of their forces, and do things their historical counterpart would have never done.

Anyhow, while browsing through the forum I found this and wondering when it might be released. This engine needs more games based on it.

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Post #: 35

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 7:16:11 AM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soosh

I did use the same strategy in a previous game as the Coalition and got a marginal victory. But that was in v3.04 and with normal fog of war. And I rather give up ground and preserve my army than defending some small town to the last man. It could have worked if the French wouldn't have taken Vienna, but they did. I should've sent Buxhowden to Vienna and left him there, that was by far my biggest mistake.

But to be honest I don't really care if I win or lose, for me it's all about the experience (always a good excuse when you lose ). I like to immerse myself into the game and roleplay a bit. That's why I prematurely ended the game. I could have continued and, say, assaulted the French over and over again until my army was gone, but would that have been realistic? And what would have an Austrian CIC done in the same situation? The problem about playing wargames is that a lot of players don't seem to care much about casualties or the state of their forces, and do things their historical counterpart would have never done.

Anyhow, while browsing through the forum I found this and wondering when it might be released. This engine needs more games based on it.

I don't propose fighting to the last man over any objective, but a balance of fighting whenever there is an advantage and giving ground only when necessary. The fighting to the last man happens when you get caught with no escape, which the AI was able to do to some of my units.

I have introduced the house rules to provide more reality and challenge, to get more into the historical role, which CotD does so well.

Playing the game is for the experience, but we all like to win. Playing as French is pretty much a sure bet, but as the Coalition it is much more problematic.

I had missed that comment by Frank, but he does maintain a low profile, then suddenly pops up with game update and maybe, hopefully, a new game. I think these AARs help generate interest in the game and provide information which might assist in further development.

Your experience playing PBEM, if is was so, will be of interest, maybe you could do a summary of how it worked for you. I have only been doing AARs on play against the AI, but there is a lot of interest in PBEM.

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Post #: 36

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 7:51:10 AM

Soosh

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Your experience playing PBEM

Oh no, it wasn't PBEM. I was playing against, well, Antoine Imbert.

Sorry about the confusion.

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Post #: 37

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 10:12:26 AM

Rasputitsa

Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soosh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Your experience playing PBEM

Oh no, it wasn't PBEM. I was playing against, well, Antoine Imbert. Sorry about the confusion.

Ooops, sorry misunderstood.

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Post #: 38

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 10:54:47 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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thanks for doing this AAR. I do find CoTD such an under-stated gem. Only giving orders to say 6-8 units (assuming no detached divisions) and still seeing so much variation in how the game plays out even vs the AI.

I've tried the Mack retreat strategy twice. First time, and you mentioned this possibility, the French got to the crossroads between Ulm and Augsburg first. While I cleared that block, the time lost was fatal.

So second time, did a lot more thinking about how to block the Danube crossings and got 3 corps back to Augsburg pretty intact. As they arrived started the second stage of the retreat back to Linz etc. Found that Napoleon must have looked at my block on the bridges just east of Ulm and decided to cross further along. So there he is, sat across my line of retreat. May get one corps out via Munich?

Or not, fascinating to work out what to do etc.

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Post #: 39

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 6:56:05 PM

Soosh

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Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
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Thanks for reading!
Sending Werneck's strong II. corps to Gunzburg to block the river crossing (with Neubourg as retreat point) is quite helpful in getting the rest of Mack's army to Augsburg.

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Only giving orders to say 6-8 units (assuming no detached divisions) and still seeing so much variation in how the game plays out even vs the AI.

Personally I've never really been into those monster games where you have to push gazillions of counters across a map, I prefer operational and grand strategy games on corps or, depending on the size of the theatre, divisional level. And the AI can be a challenge, so yeah, I am more than pleased with CotD.

Only drawback is that it may take a new player some time to get used to the system, especially the ones who are used to control everything.

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Post #: 40

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 7:10:51 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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I find the order/stance system brilliant but then I am very used to AGEOD's game system and at the core that has a very similar set up.

Thing I still find a bit hard to work out is how the moves are actually executed with the corps breaking out into its composite formations and sometimes how those divisions etc interact with the enemy moves. More a case of just getting used to the visual aspect of all this

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Post #: 41

RE: Mack's Retreat - 1/4/2018 8:14:46 PM

Soosh

Posts: 85
Joined: 11/30/2017
From: Down the road
Status: offline

Those army corps need a lot of room to manoeuvre. When Mack passed through Munich on his way to Braunau the whole army was spread out over nine hexes (81 km) along the road. Thankfully the French were so kind and didn�t advance down those roads from the north.