RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW)

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RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/16/2018 11:44:57 AM

IainF

Posts: 55
Joined: 11/20/2013
From: London, England
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Warspite:

Might be a bug then, I'll pay attention to mine and see if that's happening too.

On the Reg. A. and their seemingly hard hitting ways: it might be because there are lots of bombers in their force and hence can get a lot of interdiction going on. Also, I believe (and I might be wrong), that if they attack an airfield the planes based there will try and get 'up' before getting hit on the ground and that might be when they get whacked in furballs? I've taken a few hits like that myself in my game (and I'm the Axis player) and am also trying to get my head around it.

I'd love a game too, but if you want to wait I fully understand - my preference would be to start at the beginning of the campaign though and will gladly take the Axis (unless you fancy a change?). PM me when you want to start.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 151

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/16/2018 2:47:03 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 42 - Axis Turn
8th February 1941

I can only assume I wasn't bold enough at the start of the game, although was only fractionally behind historical timing. The Italians have a thick wall of well dug-in infantry in the Jebel which are totally impenetrable, and that massively out-number the CW units. All of the latter need time to re-supply.

I got the impression that you let your opponent capture Sidi Barrani back on turn five - perhaps not wanting the game to end early. Regardless, once you knew that the Cease Fire was not canceled, you should have fought like mad to hold it. It appeared to me that your opponent didn't commit his entire force to its capture, and you needed to have forced him to do so, in order to make him put his entire head into the noose. As a result, he retained far more of 10th Army than he should have.

The good news is that none of the Axis stuff that started the game on the map will reconstitute. So, whenever they are eliminated, you won't ever see them again. They will be a serious problem, but this is a very long scenario, and IF you can hold out, the odds favor you in the end. Just remember that force preservation trumps the value of any terrain. Don't hesitate to run like hell if you need to. The El Alamein position is very strong - especially if you've not gotten the fleet sunk. (In other words, don't squander it defending Tobruk!)

_____________________________

My TOAW web site:

Bob Cross's TOAW Site

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 152

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/16/2018 7:10:47 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 42 - Axis Turn
8th February 1941

I can only assume I wasn't bold enough at the start of the game, although was only fractionally behind historical timing. The Italians have a thick wall of well dug-in infantry in the Jebel which are totally impenetrable, and that massively out-number the CW units. All of the latter need time to re-supply.

I got the impression that you let your opponent capture Sidi Barrani back on turn five - perhaps not wanting the game to end early. Regardless, once you knew that the Cease Fire was not canceled, you should have fought like mad to hold it. It appeared to me that your opponent didn't commit his entire force to its capture, and you needed to have forced him to do so, in order to make him put his entire head into the noose. As a result, he retained far more of 10th Army than he should have.

The good news is that none of the Axis stuff that started the game on the map will reconstitute. So, whenever they are eliminated, you won't ever see them again. They will be a serious problem, but this is a very long scenario, and IF you can hold out, the odds favor you in the end. Just remember that force preservation trumps the value of any terrain. Don't hesitate to run like hell if you need to. The El Alamein position is very strong - especially if you've not gotten the fleet sunk. (In other words, don't squander it defending Tobruk!)

warspite1

Yeah that's how it happened

No not at all, I garrisoned it and put a road block in the way thinking that would be enough. Of course with hindsight I would have just pulled back my units east of Buq Buq and formed a more sensible cordon around Sidi Barani but..... no one ever complemented me for my brains....

As for what he committed, obviously I only have part of the story, but perhaps 2-3 divisions iirc were not involved in the frontier battles that I saw in my first AAR (that said I don't know if the OOB is different for the Italians (like it is for the British) in a PBEM vs an AI game).

Thanks for the advice and the 'morale booster'. If its not too late I'll try and extricate them from the their latest fine mess I've gotten' them into....

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 153

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/16/2018 8:45:02 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 41 - Axis Turn
5th February 1941

I think I will simply disband the RAF and create RAF Field Divisions. Sorry but that is rather pathetic. As advised, I will move all air units to Alexandria and place on rest.

What a jolly great idea! You could form the Warspite para panzer armored division.

warspite1

Panzer? We're British... and I was talking about the RAF....and they would have neither tanks nor be paratroop trained, but apart from that you've come up with exactly what I was thinking of?

The Germans had the Luftwaffe Field Divisions. I was thinking of something more snazy, more immediate, more punchy. How about:

The RAF ground and air crew that became redundant because the Regia Aeronautica suddenly got the best air force in the world and so the Desert air force personnel were turned into footsloggers to help the desperate situation on the ground... Divisions .

I was referring to the The 'Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 Hermann G�ring', which later became a corps.
It is a game problem because there is no NATO symbol for panzer parachute.

A Merlin engine would look good in a Matilda...

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 154

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/17/2018 4:39:23 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

you can't go back and get one in a PBEM once you've sent the turn back.

Are you guys using the PBEM++ system or are you using the old fashioned way? The reason
I ask is that the new way writes a file on your hard drive in the saves folder when
you do your turn and the old fashioned way writes an END_OF_TURN_DO_NOT_SEND.pbl file
when you end your turn. Unless something has changed. Am I wrong?

warspite1

Sorry Larry - missed this post. We are using PBEM++.

As to the rest of your post er I can see the words but all I'm getting is blah blah blah. Sorry you are talking to a computing (and wargaming) ignoramus

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 155

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/17/2018 4:47:53 PM

warspite1

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Turn 44
15th February 1941

Sorry but after that Windows monster Update inspired delay, we are back. And so are the Italian airforce - although pleasingly they seem to have got a smack this time while attacking elements of 7th Armoured.

As promised here is the big picture. Now imagine most of those red units disappearing in the next few turns....ouch!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/17/2018 4:48:24 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 156

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/17/2018 5:03:26 PM

warspite1

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Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/17/2018 6:07:16 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 157

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/17/2018 7:21:44 PM

warspite1

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Turn 45
19th February 1941

The Italians continue to destroy the units of the 7th Armoured at will with only a tiny fraction of their forces. I tried to take the game to the Italians but now the New Zealanders have gone I will be lucky to get many of the 7th Armoured out of there.

The supply situation is dreadful - even the Australians that sat just off the main road for 3-4 turns barely recovered. Not that it matters as the Australians will start disappearing in two turns so they too withdraw before the collapse of 7th Armoured results in them being surrounded.

Same problems on the 2nd Armoured front. The Ariete have arrived and are simply moving around the handful of British units to cut them off. Getting any units back will be something of a challenge.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 158

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/17/2018 9:10:49 PM

Franciscus

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Joined: 12/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

I keep reading with interest your AAR !

But I would say that this issue with the Air assistant turning itself ON when we put it OFF seems like a bug, no ?

What do the devs think ?

Regards

_____________________________

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(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 159

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 3:41:45 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 44
15th February 1941

The air assistant continues to do its thing, so I turn it off again and place all units to rest.

The 7th Armoured and 2nd Armoured take Mechili and Agedabia respectively, but then the turn ends and its fair to say that the British grasp on the former is er... tenuous...

I keep reading with interest your AAR !

But I would say that this issue with the Air assistant turning itself ON when we put it OFF seems like a bug, no ?

What do the devs think ?

Regards

warspite1

I will mention it as it seems to be continuing - which is pretty boring.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Franciscus)

Post #: 160

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 3:44:48 AM

warspite1

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Turn 46 - Axis Turn
22nd February 1941

No attacks, just a lot of positioning by the Italians who appear to have got wind of my rather desperate situation and have started to move forward more offensively with the units in the Jebel now heading south. The fact that the Germans are soon to arrive no doubt fills them with additional courage.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 161

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 3:48:17 AM

warspite1

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Turn 46
22nd February 1941

I should simply turn tail and run but I don't.

Instead I try and engage in a fighting withdrawal. I call the RN up to assist the Australians on the coast road, and send the British infantry in support of the armour.

2nd Armoured destroys a weak Libyan Tank battalion as they continue their journey east from Agedabia.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/18/2018 3:50:42 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 162

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 3:57:34 AM

warspite1

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Turn 46 (cont)
22nd February 1941

Prior to commencing Round 3 I order a battalion (1st Essex) to gauge the odds against a tank unit that has tried to cut off 2nd Armoured's retreat north of Ben Gania. To my surprise the Italians retreated before combat - and continued to do so until finally destroyed.

I am aware that my forces could face a force proficiency test and so am concerned about attacking before getting my units retreated - but.....

...another round of bombardments is launched (although I also suffer half a dozen air strikes by the Regia Aeronautica).... and I manage to make it to the next round. 2nd Armoured's chances are also slightly improved as the 2nd Support Group and the tanks of the 3rd Hussars force an Italian cavalry battalion into retreat at Maaten el-Grara.

Round 5

Southeast of Mechili the 11th Hussars destroy a Machine Gun battalion. I would love to make one last attempt at Mechili itself but the 11th Hussars move north into the space left by the Italian infantry is key to allowing the rest of the division to escape. I have to take that opportunity. Note: the terrain here makes the movement off-road impossible in places - hence the importance of Mechili - that my opponent has cleverly spotted (that is no doubt why he used this as the anchor for his right flank).

Post this picture: Sadly for a company of the 2nd Rifle Brigade, the escape route did not work. The terrain does not show it, but the units off road had to still pass by Mechili and they were shot up - to be destroyed next turn.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/18/2018 5:10:27 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 163

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 4:42:01 AM

warspite1

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Turn 46 (cont)
22nd February 1941

Round 5 (cont)

The Australians on the coast at Tmimi attack Italian infantry on the coast road. These Italians have been softened up by the RN but manage to hold their ground. A costly attack to the west by the Australians sees an infantry and tank force also hold their ground and inflict heavy losses on the Aussies. But in better news, 2nd Armoured's escape is looking more likely as they destroy the cavalry at Maaten el-Grara - still not completely out of the woods yet though....

Round 7

Undeterred by the losses the Australians continue to attack north from Tmimi and to the west - although again suffer heavy losses. However a couple of Italian units are destroyed and pre the 9th round the Australian cavalry line up an attack against the Italian infantry that held their ground. A number of Italian units were destroyed before the Australians ran out of steam.

Round 9

The Australians try and keep up the pressure west of Tmimi, although all units are either out of moves or close to it. The RN continue their bombardment of the recently retreated units (hoping at least one will evaporate) and the remaining infantry attack a lone infantry battalion.

Pleasingly two infantry units did evaporate under the weight of shell. The Australian position looks precarious, but I am happy that they at least gave the Italians food for thought.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/18/2018 5:10:15 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 164

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 5:08:35 AM

warspite1

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Turn 46 (cont)
22nd February 1941

The butchers bill

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/18/2018 5:09:52 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 165

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 4:12:35 PM

warspite1

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Turn 47 - Axis Turn
26th February 1941

The 2nd Armoured lose an anti-tank unit that was stuck on its own through lack of movement points. The Germans have arrived to.... great.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 166

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 4:55:20 PM

warspite1

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Turn 47
26th February 1941

Mmmm.... lots of units will be destroyed this turn as once again the Australians prove alarmingly brittle and go into reorganisation. I intended to give them a fighting chance by pounding the Italians with the RN, but sadly after just one round the CW fail a proficiency check. Ho hum....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/18/2018 4:57:26 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 167

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 7:02:43 PM

warspite1

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Turn 48
1st March 1941

Well I expected to suffer that turn, my opponent didn't disappoint.....

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 168

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 7:47:49 PM

warspite1

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Turn 48
1st March 1941

The Australian Prime Minister, Robert Menzies, addresses the nation:

"It is my solemn duty to report that the 6th Australian Division will soon cease to exist....".

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 169

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/18/2018 8:44:12 PM

Zorch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn 48
1st March 1941

The Australian Prime Minister, Robert Menzies, addresses the nation:

"It is my solemn duty to report that the 6th Australian Division will soon cease to exist....".

"Due entirely to the reasonable and cowardly acts of one Warspite".

Attachment (1)

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 170

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 10:17:30 AM

warspite1

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Turn 49 - Axis Turn
5th March 1941

My what a long Axis turn!! The Australians get a severe mauling as expected and there are tons of Axis units on their way....

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 10:29:09 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 171

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 10:45:19 AM

warspite1

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Turn 49
5th March 1941

I don't really have a scoobie what to do now. So I think first off I need to do a stock take of what exactly I have, what I am going to get and what I am going to lose. To anyone still reading this tripe, sorry if that is all a bit boring but I really don't have much to play with (story of my life

).....

Tobruk Garrison

The obvious thing to note here is the distinct lack of artillery and limited anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry. The division is also a battalion light....

The field artillery (3 Regiments) and a light AA regiment do not arrive until turn 61 and the missing infantry battalion and the machine gun battalion arrive on turn 63. The Australians are going to need help...

The good news is that I have the right man for the job in Tobruk - Lt-General Leslie "Ming the Merciless" Morshead:

"There will be no Dunkirk here. If we should have to get out, we'll fight our way out. There is to be no surrender and no retreat".

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 11:16:33 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 172

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 1:05:11 PM

warspite1

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Turn 49 (cont)
5th March 1941

The final preparations have been made. All units set to dig-in and ignore losses.

Uncomfortably there are no reserves.... Each of the 3 front-line strong points has a reinforced brigade worth of troops (2 brigades in the case of the southwestern strong point) including an anti-tank regiment. The eastern strong point contains the artillery - 5 regiments of field artillery plus two AA regiments. There is just two cavalry regiments in reserve (note: there should be a Polish cavalry regiment in Tobruk itself). There are no more units that can be spared - and even this level may leave the Egyptian border too unguarded.

Does anyone know, am I better putting an artillery regiment in the front-line and having 3 battalions of reserve infantry in the eastern strong point or am I better having the artillery set away from the front line?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 1:17:09 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 173

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 1:37:58 PM

warspite1

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Turn 49 (cont)
5th March 1941

This means that in order to guard the Egyptian border I have:
- two weak armoured "divisions"*
- the 22nd Guards Brigade (missing all AA and artillery and containing only 2 infantry battalions)
- the 70th Infantry Division (effectively 2 brigades of infantry but devoid of any artillery, AA or anti-tank units except 1 field artillery regiment)
- the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade (effectively 3 battalions and no artillery, AA or AT).
- a battalion of Czech infantry
- a company of Free French marines.
- Corps assets amount to:
1 tank battalion (which I am considering placing in Tobruk)
2 infantry battalions
1 heavy AA regiment
2 light AA regiments
1 artillery regiment

* The current ahem...strength... of these divisions is:

2nd Armoured Division
3rd Armoured Brigade consisting of just 2 battalions
2nd Support Group consisting of 2 battalions of infantry and a reconnaissance battalion.
1 field artillery regiment but no AA or AT units

7th Armoured Division
4th and 7th Armoured Brigades with 1 and 3 tank battalions respectively
7th Support Group consisting of 1 battalion and 1 company of infantry
2 batteries of anti-tank and 1 field artillery regiment

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 1:47:51 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 174

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 2:10:25 PM

warspite1

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Turn 49
5th March 1941

Damn - forgot to take a picture - I'll show the position when I get the turn back. In the meantime there is nothing more to report. The armoured units are near Bardia recovering (supply is good here).

The big picture post the Axis turn 50. Obviously with FOW, there will be a good deal more enemy than can be seen here....

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 4:34:43 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 175

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 4:30:44 PM

warspite1

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Turn 50 - Axis Turn
8th March 1941

The Axis forces break through the thin crust at Gazala....

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 176

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 4:54:08 PM

warspite1

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Turn 50
8th March 1941

West of Tobruk the Cheshire Machine Gun Battalion fails to get away and so will be carved up next turn. Otherwise there is little to report. The 7th Armoured remain inactive awaiting re-supply and the 2nd Armoured pull back to cover the Italian units in the desert who are seemingly looking to outflank the CW forces - although I can't cover every possibility....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 177

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 5:32:18 PM

Zorch

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You should play the Axis next time...it might help your understanding of strengths/weaknesses.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 178

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 5:35:10 PM

warspite1

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I definitely intend to do that. Plenty more mileage in this scenario - so much to explore

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 179

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) - 1/20/2018 6:49:32 PM

warspite1

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Turn 51 - Axis Turn
12th March 1941

The men from Cheshire know how to die gallantly, holding back far superior forces not once, but twice (with the aid of the artillery in Tobruk).

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/20/2018 7:09:11 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 180

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> After Action Reports >> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW)