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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably Historically

 
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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/28/2018 3:55:49 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Turn 41. May/June 1946. 1-YR, 6-Turn, Authorized Production. Allied.

Post German Surrender and the End of WW-2.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 8/28/2018 3:57:44 AM >

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Ronnie

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RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/28/2018 3:56:33 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Turn 41. May/June 1946. Strategic Summary.

Post German Surrender and the End of WW-2.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 8/28/2018 3:58:04 AM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2282
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/28/2018 3:58:53 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Turn 41. May/June 1946. European Theater.

Post German Surrender and the End of WW-2.




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Ronnie

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Post #: 2283
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/28/2018 3:59:25 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Turn 41. May/June 1946. Victory in Europe.




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Ronnie

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Post #: 2284
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/28/2018 11:58:33 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Turn 41. May/June 1946. Axis #1. France Call Out Their Reserves.





This is a bug...

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Peter

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Post #: 2285
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/29/2018 4:45:43 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Turn 41. May/June 1946. Axis #1. France Call Out Their Reserves.


This is a bug...
OK, I'll post a bug report with game file then. Thanks!


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Ronnie

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2286
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/29/2018 9:42:43 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		Congratulations on the most complete AAR I have seen.

< Message edited by Courtenay -- 8/29/2018 9:43:00 PM >

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I thought I knew how to play this game....

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Post #: 2287
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/29/2018 9:49:32 PM   
TurnerJ


Posts: 5
Joined: 2/5/2015
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for all the work you did in posting this AAR. It was both fascinating and entertaining to follow. I hope you will share your thoughts about anything you might have learned from it.

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 2288
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/29/2018 11:12:14 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Congratulations on the most complete AAR I have seen.
Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TurnerJ

Thank you so much for all the work you did in posting this AAR. It was both fascinating and entertaining to follow. I hope you will share your thoughts about anything you might have learned from it.
Thanks!

I've collected a "ton" of data that I will use to generate detailed summaries of production, combat, weather, etc. Also, I plan to generate at least two "narrative" summaries. One will be as how MWiF played out as an "historical" (alternate) simulation of ww2 and the second will be with respect to how it played out as a game. I intend to include my "lessons learned" with respect to both in these summaries. Also, I invite any, and all, feedback (positive, negative, neutral) at any level, or at any time, folks wish to post (starting now if they wish).

Lastly, I like to explore is a "layman's" workaround to MWIF's convoy routing and production. I feel that too much time as the CW/US player is spent on this often it see it undone when you save and re-load.

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2289
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/30/2018 12:10:14 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		A nice AAR indeed. Thanks for making this one.

And convoy routing is running quite allright except for one major remaining bug. That's the one where you can't say which factory makes a build point that you have to send to another major power.

The trick with production planning is to try to have as few default instructions as possible. That's because every time you make a default instruction MWIF will follow that instruction before making any other decisions. If you are faced with non optimal convoy lines due to enemy action, the more default instructions you've made in production planning, the worse things might end up.

The first couple of times when I got this problem, I would make more and more default instructions. That's not the way to fix this. It's usually better to get rid of the default instructions when facing this problem and let the program calculate things new and start from that point to optimize things (especially if one uses Food in Flames this needs to be done, since the convoy routing system doesn't take the bonusses into account).



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Peter

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Post #: 2290
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 8/31/2018 7:48:20 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Thanks for the AAR. Makes me want to dust off the game again . . . if I can find it.

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Post #: 2291
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:02:12 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

A nice AAR indeed. Thanks for making this one.

Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Thanks for the AAR. Makes me want to dust off the game again . . . if I can find it.
Thanks!

And now, I'll start with post-war (uh ... post-game) stats and summaries. First oil.

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2292
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:07:39 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Euro-Axis (Germany & Italy) Oil Summary.

Expended is the amount of oil used for reorg only. I didn't collect statistics on oil used for production. Stockpiled is the amount of oil saved.

While both Germany and Italy had to manage their oil, oil really didn't become a problem for either until 1946. Well, Italy was out of the war by then (i.e., surrender May/June 1945). So, oil was never a problem for Italy and only became a problem for Germany in 1946.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:53:50 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2293
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:13:44 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Japanese Oil Summary.

While Japan appears to have had a healthily stockpile of oil (i.e., 15 oil points) beginning in late 1943, this is an illusion. This "stockpile" was in the Dutch East Indies, and such locations in the South China Sea, and was "unreachable" due to convoy losses to the USN. Japan started feeling the impact of having little oil beginning in late 1943 and lasting until they surrendered in May/June 1945. The only source of oil during that time was 1 Synth oil point build in Japan.





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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:54:17 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2294
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:14:18 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Chinese Oil Summary.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:54:42 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2295
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:17:59 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Soviet Oil Summary.

Soviet oil, needed mostly to feed their factories railed east by the Urals, because a major issue in late 1943 when it looked like the Germans, and Italians, might knock the Soviet Union out of the war, or at best, cripple them. It was at this time when the Soviet oil fields in the Caucuses had been overrun and the Nazis were at the gates of Perm.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:55:05 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2296
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 5:22:05 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Western Allies Oil Summary.

Though it may seem that the Western Allies (USA, CW & France) may have an unlimited supply of oil, their oil stockpile did dip down to dangerous levels during the summer of 1944 when the fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance and allied oil and non-oil resources traded to the Soviet Union in the "hopes" of keeping the Soviet Union alive.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:55:28 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2297
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 6:10:09 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Production Summary. Euro-Axis.

Production summaries will include total factories, number of factories producing, number of BP's produced and number of BP's (final) available for production. Note that lend lease (i.e., BP's traded) and BP's saved is the difference between BP's produced and available for production.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:55:52 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2298
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 6:12:50 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Production Summary. Japan.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:56:18 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2299
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 6:13:12 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Production Summary. China.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:56:40 PM >

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Ronnie

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 2300
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 6:13:37 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Production Summary. The Soviet Union.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:57:06 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2301
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/3/2018 6:14:04 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		Production Summary. Western Allies.




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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 9/4/2018 11:57:29 PM >

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Ronnie

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Post #: 2302
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/4/2018 12:59:50 AM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		One request. Please do not use red and green in the same graph, or if you do, run them by a color-blind person first to make sure tha two colors can be distinguished. There are reds and greens I can easily tell apart (traffic lights!). There are reds and greens I can't tell apart at all. The ones you used are marginal. If I work really hard, I can tell them apart, but I would prefer to not have to do so.

(There are some games I can't play at all because of this. Race for the Galaxy comes to mind immediately. I don't even want to think about Through the Desert. I don't know who thought pastels made a good choice for coloring the pieces of a game. Even trichromats have trouble with the pieces in that game.)

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I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 2303
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/4/2018 4:06:58 AM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

One request. Please do not use red and green in the same graph, or if you do, run them by a color-blind person first to make sure tha two colors can be distinguished. There are reds and greens I can easily tell apart (traffic lights!). There are reds and greens I can't tell apart at all. The ones you used are marginal. If I work really hard, I can tell them apart, but I would prefer to not have to do so.

(There are some games I can't play at all because of this. Race for the Galaxy comes to mind immediately. I don't even want to think about Through the Desert. I don't know who thought pastels made a good choice for coloring the pieces of a game. Even trichromats have trouble with the pieces in that game.)
Sure. I'll "update", when I get a chance, the summaries plots I've posted so far. To make my graphics "color blind" friendly, I'd appreciate any feedback on RGB line colors if you can for 4 lines.


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Ronnie

(in reply to Courtenay)
Post #: 2304
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/4/2018 7:41:25 AM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		There are also different kinds of color blindness. Generally speaking, if one uses colors and want to make sure the colorblind see them, one needs to know what to avoid.

https://usabilla.com/blog/how-to-design-for-color-blindness/

I really gave Steve a thumbs up for designing this game with the colorblind in his mind. Since I started testing this game, I (being colorblind) had only a few things to remark on it regarding the colors used.


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Peter

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Post #: 2305
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/4/2018 2:18:47 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		I used the default colors in Microsoft Paint until I found four that I could easily tell apart.

Blue, Gold, Dark Red, Lavender: 63/62/204, 255/201/14, 136/0/21, 200/191/231.

By the way, the color that Microsoft calls "dark red" does not look red at all to me.

Line width matters. Thicker lines are easier to see. Using the smallest line in paint, the lavender did not stand out well; using the next larger size line worked fine.

To my surprise, a thin yellow line was very hard to see against a white background. This caused me to reject yellow.

Black and white are of course distinguishable. White, though, has a problem -- white on white might just be a little hard to see!

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2306
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/4/2018 11:59:09 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

There are also different kinds of color blindness. Generally speaking, if one uses colors and want to make sure the colorblind see them, one needs to know what to avoid.

https://usabilla.com/blog/how-to-design-for-color-blindness/

I really gave Steve a thumbs up for designing this game with the colorblind in his mind. Since I started testing this game, I (being colorblind) had only a few things to remark on it regarding the colors used.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I used the default colors in Microsoft Paint until I found four that I could easily tell apart.

Blue, Gold, Dark Red, Lavender: 63/62/204, 255/201/14, 136/0/21, 200/191/231.

By the way, the color that Microsoft calls "dark red" does not look red at all to me.

Line width matters. Thicker lines are easier to see. Using the smallest line in paint, the lavender did not stand out well; using the next larger size line worked fine.

To my surprise, a thin yellow line was very hard to see against a white background. This caused me to reject yellow.

Black and white are of course distinguishable. White, though, has a problem -- white on white might just be a little hard to see!


Graphics changed (i.e., line colors changed) consistent with these RGB values. Better?

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Ronnie

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 2307
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/5/2018 2:25:57 AM   
ashkpa


Posts: 1507
Joined: 1/16/2014
Status: offline 		Another option is to change the line type. In my work life I used a lot of dashed lines and dotted lines as well as the solid lines to avoid the issues with color blindness. It is especially important when using different projectors. They all seem to have a different shading to the colors, often very different than what you intended.

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 2308
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/5/2018 12:21:10 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

There are also different kinds of color blindness. Generally speaking, if one uses colors and want to make sure the colorblind see them, one needs to know what to avoid.

https://usabilla.com/blog/how-to-design-for-color-blindness/

I really gave Steve a thumbs up for designing this game with the colorblind in his mind. Since I started testing this game, I (being colorblind) had only a few things to remark on it regarding the colors used.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I used the default colors in Microsoft Paint until I found four that I could easily tell apart.

Blue, Gold, Dark Red, Lavender: 63/62/204, 255/201/14, 136/0/21, 200/191/231.

By the way, the color that Microsoft calls "dark red" does not look red at all to me.

Line width matters. Thicker lines are easier to see. Using the smallest line in paint, the lavender did not stand out well; using the next larger size line worked fine.

To my surprise, a thin yellow line was very hard to see against a white background. This caused me to reject yellow.

Black and white are of course distinguishable. White, though, has a problem -- white on white might just be a little hard to see!


Graphics changed (i.e., line colors changed) consistent with these RGB values. Better?


Yes...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 2309
RE: An Attempt to use MWiF to Simulated WW2 Reasonably ... - 9/5/2018 12:43:51 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Graphics changed (i.e., line colors changed) consistent with these RGB values. Better?

Much. Thank you.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to rkr1958)
Post #: 2310
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