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Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 3:20:19 AM   
Tollwut

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/29/2016
Status: offline 		Hi bros,
I'm currently in a game versus a human opponent. The rules are no attack advantages for the Soviets and mild blizzard.

Consequently, I've been able to weather the Blizzard Phase (and its concomitant Soviet counteroffensive) quite well. I've been pushed back a bit but managed to stop the Soviets from any achieving substantial breakthroughs.

It's the beginning of March 1942 now and I'm doing the first post-blizzard Snow turn. And I'm a bit at a loss. My troops are somewhat worn out (in terms of ToE), my truck numbers are alarmingly low (about 75k and I need over 100k) while the Red Army seems rather well entrenched.

My question is should I try to resume the offensive immediately or wait a turn or so refitting my mobile formations and getting the toe back up? Should I stay or should I go now? If I stay there will be trouble. If I go it might be double...

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"I'll show you where Iron Crosses bloom..." (Steiner)
Post #: 1
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 5:21:46 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Well, the short answer is this: Make an assessment and go by it.

Realizing that may not be very helpful, the slightly longer version is that you needd to figure out what you can do with what you have. Is there some tactical goal you may be able to achieve in the three turns you have? A typical goal would be the capture of Sevastopol in quite a few games. Or you nay be able to even out the frontline a little saving yourself a few divisions for the future main attack. Maybe you can cut off and destroy a Soviet formation or two? Or is it simply better to wait for the end of the muddy period stocking up on everything in order to build up your forces?

The choice is yours.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Tollwut)
Post #: 2
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 7:24:56 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline 		as your colegue said better to wait for the end of the muddy (thats a great idea); plus always send your tank divisions to citys in wizzard period and refit from factorys production; also attach infantry units to tank divisions if necessary especially the reinforcements units. hope it helps. the winter time is totally unuseful for atatcks so its the time to reoorganizacion everything, But the MUDDY its what stoped the Barbarrossa

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Epsilon Eridani



(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 3
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 8:05:56 AM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline 		You are in a race against time to capture as much terrain and do as much damage as possible in '42. You need to get set up for the main offensive in starting in May, however a few attacks to build up morale after the blizzard or pocket any exposed Soviets should be worth considering.

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 4
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 10:29:49 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tollwut

My question is should I try to resume the offensive immediately or wait a turn or so refitting my mobile formations and getting the toe back up? Should I stay or should I go now? If I stay there will be trouble. If I go it might be double...

Attack as soon as possible! time isn't on your side.

(in reply to Tollwut)
Post #: 5
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 3/4/2018 3:30:03 PM   
Tollwut

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 11/29/2016
Status: offline 		Thanks for all your replies. I'll make a decision shortly.

Any offensive will be hard, however. My infantry divisions are essentially ants and most of my mobile formations are down to about 60-70% TOE. Conversely, the Soviets are well dug in with relatively high CVs. Ah well I guess luck favors the bold...

_____________________________

"I'll show you where Iron Crosses bloom..." (Steiner)

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 6
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/17/2018 1:37:53 PM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		What? You didn't evacuate your Panzer units to Poland for the winter ? They should be maxed out, fueled up, and ready to run rough shod over those Russian Devils. (Yeah... I know it's not "historical"... but it seems to be the current strategy among the Panzer Ballers.)

"The rules are no attack advantages for the Soviets and mild blizzard."
If that is the case, if the German player knows what he's doing, the game is already over...
It just a question of how big the German victory will be.

Since you are new, I'll explain... With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, without the "extreme blizzard" and "1-1=2-1" and using the other standard settings, the Russian army will not be able to counter attack successfully enough in the winter of 41.

This leads to a number of consequences... i.e. the Russians don't build morale, the Russians don't gain Guards units, the Germans don't lose morale, and there are fewer German losses and loss of ground.
All of this is what is well documented as the "snowball effect"... a downward spiral of morale and increased losses.

With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, if you play without the EB and 1-1=2-1, the Germans should capture Leningrad and Moskow in 41, evacuate the panzers for the winter 41, and be in position to run for automatic victory points in 42. The Russians will not have the power to stop this until they have fully formed Corps sized units, and they will only accomplish this if they have avoided large pockets. What this dictates is that the Russians will only fight in the EB in 41 and run away the rest of the time until they have fully formed the Russian Army 2.0 with fully supported Corps.

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 4/17/2018 2:13:30 PM >

(in reply to Tollwut)
Post #: 7
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/17/2018 2:05:44 PM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Ooops sorry. Double post.

Huh... I thought there used to be a "delete" function ?

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 4/17/2018 2:14:07 PM >

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 8
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/19/2018 10:35:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

What? You didn't evacuate your Panzer units to Poland for the winter ? They should be maxed out, fueled up, and ready to run rough shod over those Russian Devils. (Yeah... I know it's not "historical"... but it seems to be the current strategy among the Panzer Ballers.)

"The rules are no attack advantages for the Soviets and mild blizzard."
If that is the case, if the German player knows what he's doing, the game is already over...
It just a question of how big the German victory will be.

Since you are new, I'll explain... With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, without the "extreme blizzard" and "1-1=2-1" and using the other standard settings, the Russian army will not be able to counter attack successfully enough in the winter of 41.

This leads to a number of consequences... i.e. the Russians don't build morale, the Russians don't gain Guards units, the Germans don't lose morale, and there are fewer German losses and loss of ground.
All of this is what is well documented as the "snowball effect"... a downward spiral of morale and increased losses.

With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, if you play without the EB and 1-1=2-1, the Germans should capture Leningrad and Moskow in 41, evacuate the panzers for the winter 41, and be in position to run for automatic victory points in 42. The Russians will not have the power to stop this until they have fully formed Corps sized units, and they will only accomplish this if they have avoided large pockets. What this dictates is that the Russians will only fight in the EB in 41 and run away the rest of the time until they have fully formed the Russian Army 2.0 with fully supported Corps.



I am enjoying the agenda push here ;-p. Keep going please

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Post #: 9
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/20/2018 2:35:59 AM   
GamesaurusRex


Posts: 505
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		Hi HardLuck :
The only agenda I have is trying to figure out the settings for a balanced game. I've played this game for five years now with Wheat. He is an expert Panzer Baller who has worked out what is a near perfect German opening series of moves and approach to the German side. The standard settings without extreme blizzard and 1-1=2-1 is a non-game for the Russians against this sort of German strategy. I have used every angle in Flavius' and Pelton's playbook and still not found a way to make 1941-42 anything other than "shooting fish in a barrell" for the German. It's just a cake walk for the German, if he knows what to do. Yes, you can pull a defense in the North to delay the fall of Leningrad long enough to get some of the industry out, but it will fall in the end. There is no holding Leningrad. Yes, you can defend Moskow to delay long enough to evacuate factories, but that will fall too... either in a pocket that may cost you the game or when you willingly surrender Moskow to avoid the pocket. There is no holding Moskow. All you can do is delay just enough for evacs and try to stay out of reach of the German Panzers until blizzard 41 (and it better be extreme with 1-1=2-1 or it's over). You must then attack in the extreme blizzard just long enough to gain morale and guards and destroy German troops and morale... then stop soon enough that you are not totally worn out when the Germans resume their attack in 42.

We started another game just after this latest patch was available. We used the mild winter and no 1-1=2=1 just to see what happens under this new patch (I had heard this patch was a Russian buff, it was not). We placed no house rule on Lvov, so that was allowed and we do not allow airdrops. I have tried a completely different approach in this game by simply retreating when possible, fighting only as needed to delay for factory evacuations. The one buff we gave the Russians was to turn up the AP allowance to 120 per turn (the idea here was to accelerate Russian Corps formation to try to get to combat CV without a Russian winter offensive). It's turn 54 in June '42 and the Germans are already at the Volga and have taken Gorky in the North and are pressing toward Baku in the South where the Russians are defending along the mountains. The one bright spot is the Crimea is still held by Russia, but I'm sure that is because he didn't try to take it.

Even with the added AP, this has been an ordeal... and under this patch the Russians seem to have lower CV than in previous games. I know some of this is due to the fact that I did not attack in '41 mild blizzard to conserve troops and dig in, but I am finding this is a poor trade off because I have gained only one Guard Division aside from the airborne Guards, and the Germans just run over it all and pocket it anyway (which Flavius and Pelton predicted long ago due to what they termed the "snowball effect" which results if the Russian doesn't attack in winter '41). So I'm just looking for a "game" in an otherwise non-contest... and still have not found it.

[Note: In all the games we've played in five years, the Russian side has only won ONCE... when Wheat played the Russians... but I had never played the German side before and had no clue about the mechanics of keeping the German Army at max morale levels like Wheat does. In that game under patch 1.07, interestingly enough, the Russian arrived in Berlin on May 3, 1945... an almost perfect historic result.]

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 10
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/23/2018 7:29:33 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline 		Sorry, but stop copypasting your post in every thread plz, people are trying to communicate on many different topics, not only expert Panzerballers.

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 11
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/24/2018 3:37:56 AM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		Still a rookie here, but can someone please explain this to me? Mild blizzard = advantage Germans. No 1-1 = 2-1 is again advantage Germans. Sounds to me like you're playing soccer without a goalkeeper.

(in reply to MarauderPL)
Post #: 12
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/24/2018 7:36:13 PM   
AFV


Posts: 435
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Agree with last post- why not try new patch with harsh blizzard and 2:1 ?

(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 13
RE: Survived the Blizzard - Now What? - 4/25/2018 1:55:47 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

What? You didn't evacuate your Panzer units to Poland for the winter ? They should be maxed out, fueled up, and ready to run rough shod over those Russian Devils. (Yeah... I know it's not "historical"... but it seems to be the current strategy among the Panzer Ballers.)

"The rules are no attack advantages for the Soviets and mild blizzard."
If that is the case, if the German player knows what he's doing, the game is already over...
It just a question of how big the German victory will be.

Since you are new, I'll explain... With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, without the "extreme blizzard" and "1-1=2-1" and using the other standard settings, the Russian army will not be able to counter attack successfully enough in the winter of 41.

This leads to a number of consequences... i.e. the Russians don't build morale, the Russians don't gain Guards units, the Germans don't lose morale, and there are fewer German losses and loss of ground.
All of this is what is well documented as the "snowball effect"... a downward spiral of morale and increased losses.

With an experienced Panzer Baller playing the German side, if you play without the EB and 1-1=2-1, the Germans should capture Leningrad and Moskow in 41, evacuate the panzers for the winter 41, and be in position to run for automatic victory points in 42. The Russians will not have the power to stop this until they have fully formed Corps sized units, and they will only accomplish this if they have avoided large pockets. What this dictates is that the Russians will only fight in the EB in 41 and run away the rest of the time until they have fully formed the Russian Army 2.0 with fully supported Corps.


All this rant sounds like the religion of “Pelton” especially pulling armor into Poland . Actually any level 4 town , Urban will work. I am pulling out my armor now right at Moscow.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to GamesaurusRex)
Post #: 14
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