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TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 3:43:28 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Isaac/Stewart AAR, German Turn 1

I’m playing this game against my friend Isaac, who, at great peril to his marriage, has agreed to play another monster game with me. I am still relatively inexperienced, with five games against live opponents under my belt, including one against Sparkleytits as the Germans, and this is Isaac’s first campaign against a live opponent, though we played the Road to Leningrad scenario as his first game. We have chosen a pro-Soviet set of options: +1 attack and full blizzard. We have a gentleman’s agreement about reloading save games – only if you have made a really dramatic error through misunderstanding of the rules, and you must inform the assembled multitudes. We are going to keep an AAR, posted two turns after the events described, and I am going to be pretty open about my plans. The western Allies are reading all of Hitler’s mail because of ULTRA, and we will assume that they are passing useful stuff on to Stalin.

So my first Axis turn in the Sparkleytits game went rather conventionally. I have done a few new things in this game. First, I transferred XXXXVI Panzer Corps from 2nd Panzergruppe to 1st. This is instead of the normal approach of sending 1st Panzergruppe towards Minsk, or the alternative approach I have seen in some AAR’s of sending it south of the marshes with the goal of creating a second pocket west of Zhitomir. I want the southern pocket to be solid and I will worry about the rest of the southern forces later. When a new panzer unit comes in September, I will give them to 2nd Panzergruppe. In the mean time, their job is to keep the Soviets amused in the center.

Because my principal strategic goal is two-fold: capture Leningrad before the mud and get across the Dnepr. I’d like to take the Crimea if I can but I’ll try to avoid the mistakes I made down there in my game with Sparkleytits. I’m not expecting to take any factory cities with their factories in place, though if I do get an early breakthrough in the south, my goals will be Kharkov (a T-34 factory) and Voronezh (with all of the USSR’s IL-2 production). I’m not aiming for Moscow, though I want to make the Soviet defenders commit significant forces to defending it. If they look weak in there, I’ll take the opportunity to advance in that sector. I’m not planning to go to far into the Russian interior, considering the potential for a serious Russian counter-attack in the winter months. I certainly don’t want to have any forces out of supply in November-December.

I began with my opening air campaign. I surveilled every field, rebased my bombers as close to the border as I could and thought about some long-range strikes. However, I ended up concentrating on the front-line airfields with the exception of the Black Sea Fleet Air Command fields in the Crimea, which have the largest concentration of IL-4’s that are within Axis fighter range on turn 1. The screen shot below is from the end of the turn, after I overran several of his air bases and pushed loss numbers up from about 2850 in the initial attack. I also used bombers that had not been shot out in the early going to attack some rear area bases at the end of the turn. These losses are a little ahead of historical but not huge compared with some other AAR’s I’ve read.







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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 3:45:28 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		My push in AGN was pretty much normal. The only thing I did that is somewhat unusual as far as I can tell is drawing my unit back from Ventspils, the northernmost of the Latvian coast ports, after capturing it. I did a good bit of recon in there and I didn’t find any non-routed units. Some of the routed guys might rally and recapture the port, but on the other hand, my motorized division will be able to move at close to full speed next turn. Other than that, we got an armored corps across the Daugava river and captured Riga, and maybe pocketed something like six units in Latvia.






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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 3:46:06 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		I got my advance in the center a little mixed up. There are three divisions that ended up more than five hexes from their HQ. Because I spent all those AP on switching a corps over to AGS, I didn’t have enough left to swap guys around to ensure good supply. I flew a bunch of air resupply missions but because of a bug in the version we’re playing, all those squadrons will now have to go into the national reserve to get their planes back functional again. We nonetheless managed to make the big central pocket and pocket a few guys south of Vilnius as well.

My plan is to shift Panzergruppe 3 northwards starting with next turn, aiming to cross the Daugava at Daugavapils and thence straight to Pskov. I hope to break up the Pskov position before Isaac can get it stabilized and then press on quickly to Leningrad. Hopefully, I can get the city taken and the line stabilized in AGN before mud, allowing me to refit my armor and be prepared for a southern strategy in 1942.






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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 3:46:57 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		In the south, my pocketing skills could obviously still use some work. I did create the Lvov pocket, but it is not nearly as secure as I had hoped. Looking at Soviet units I can see, there are a couple of places where a unit that has some movement points could punch through and break the pocket. I tried bombing all the obvious candidates but I still expect that I will have to make this pocket again next turn and this will slow down my offensive in Ukraine.

I spent a lot of energy trying to overrun airbases that I had bombed in the opening wave of air strikes, in the hopes of destroying planes that had been damaged in the bombing. Soviet aircraft losses increased from 2850 to 3367 during the turn, so maybe this had some effect.

Total ground losses this turn were 10,343 for me, 188,206 for the Bolshevik hordes. TOE totals are 3.3m German plus about 1.6m Axis allies versus 3.1m Soviets. Probably the last time I will outnumber them.





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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 5:15:41 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Good luck to both of you!!

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 7:14:19 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

I’m playing this game against my friend Isaac, who, at great peril to his marriage, has agreed to play another monster game with me.


Some tips how to get RL friends who play WitE?

AAR looks good, Lvov pocket is safe. Inf needs 12MPs at min to break and wont have that on T1
Lvov pocket

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 11:58:08 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		I so love the fact that you circled the stuff you really care about in turn 1 airbase bombing - spot on! I would say all AARs should be rewritten to just sum up those airframes - the other total number is close to irrelevant!

(I would probably include LaGG-3 though - and suspect you may have meant to do that. If Sb-2 was not included I would have left out Pe-2 too - possibly you were thinking of the Pe-8 which is the very long range one? In future turns would the only number you care about on the German side be fighter, and maybe dive bomber?)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
The only thing I did that is somewhat unusual as far as I can tell is drawing my unit back from Ventspils, the northernmost of the Latvian coast ports, after capturing it. I did a good bit of recon in there and I didn’t find any non-routed units. Some of the routed guys might rally and recapture the port


That would be a problem in version 1.04 say, but not now. It is a small level port and will take many turns of repair before it can work again - any recapture would not give them a working port.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Because I spent all those AP on switching a corps over to AGS, I didn’t have enough left to swap guys around to ensure good supply.


Turn 1 units often have supply already in them for both this turn and the next - so not a problem really.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Some tips how to get RL friends who play WitE?


Join a wargaming club - almost all my hours of playing others in WitE are people I have seen in RL.

One other player here told me they were teaching their wife to play. Putting "to love and to obey, and to play hours of WitE until death do us part" seems a very reasonable adjustment to wedding vows to me?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/19/2018 12:12:38 PM >

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 4:03:19 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:



Join a wargaming club - almost all my hours of playing others in WitE are people I have seen in RL.

One other player here told me they were teaching their wife to play. Putting "to love and to obey, and to play hours of WitE until death do us part" seems a very reasonable adjustment to wedding vows to me?


They could always raise the wife from the dead to play on........

_____________________________


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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 4:31:57 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
The only thing I did that is somewhat unusual as far as I can tell is drawing my unit back from Ventspils, the northernmost of the Latvian coast ports, after capturing it. I did a good bit of recon in there and I didn’t find any non-routed units. Some of the routed guys might rally and recapture the port


That would be a problem in version 1.04 say, but not now. It is a small level port and will take many turns of repair before it can work again - any recapture would not give them a working port.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking



That would explain why, on turn 2, he did recapture the port but still wasn't in supply. I was wondering about that.

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 6:51:51 PM   
Ridgeway

 

Posts: 139
Joined: 2/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

My push in AGN was pretty much normal. The only thing I did that is somewhat unusual as far as I can tell is drawing my unit back from Ventspils, the northernmost of the Latvian coast ports, after capturing it. I did a good bit of recon in there and I didn’t find any non-routed units. Some of the routed guys might rally and recapture the port, but on the other hand, my motorized division will be able to move at close to full speed next turn. Other than that, we got an armored corps across the Daugava river and captured Riga, and maybe pocketed something like six units in Latvia.







I think you are going to be a little behind in AGN.

With some practice, you can figure out how to herd almost all those routed units into a nice kessel centered on Radviliskis, and get most of 2 Panzer Corps across the Dvina. A lot has to do with ordering your attacks properly and using LVII PzK to assist AGN (I don't think they are as useful initially in heading toward Minsk).

here's how I do it:

I use units from LVII PzK to penetrate the initial defenses (use the low morale ones for the attacks to get them up to 85 on T1), and then swing NE up the the Ukmerge-Livani corridor converting all the unoccupied towns (including either capturing or getting adjacent to Daugavpils). I use one add'l Panzer division from LVII PzK slightly further East, to make sure Postavy is converted and the Inf Div at Sven-city is neutralized. Lastly, I usually use an additional unit from LVI PzK to convert Birzai, Jekabpils and Plavinas.

Then I break a small hole near Taurage with the infantry, and use that hole to sent Totenkopf to capture Ventspils. Lastly, I send a unit from XLI PzK North through the same hole and then cutting across east through Jelgava and closing the kessel at Birzai/Jekabpils.

I use infantry to capture Liepaja and to herd the rest out of their forts and into the kessel. Try to make them retreat out of the way, and if they rout, there should be enough empty town hexes to hold just about everybody.

Finally I use the last couple of units from XLI PzK to secure the northern flank of the kessel. I don't see any reason to send a Panzer Div directly East of Riga. You don get any benefit from capturing Riga right away any more (no sealift) and it is way out of the way in bad terrain starting T2. Instead I send one of the Mot divisions north to Tukum to seal off anyone left to the West, and then have him end up south of Riga keeping the NKVD division from linking to the kessel -- I try to get the Panzer Divisions across the Dvina around Plavinas.

One other thing I do early in the move is send someone from XXXIX PzK towards Minsk to convert as many towns in that corridor as possible -- this keeps units from routing into them and hopefully encourages them to rout into the Bialystok kessel instead.

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 7:24:43 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Ultimately 4th panzer is only a couple of hexes behind and would unlikely be the cause of any real problems in AGN

The lack of infantry moving towards the Dvina may be an issue if Isaac defends Pskov in force as once the panzers arrived they would need to waste a couple of turns until any support from the infantry starts to arrive in force

About maximising the pockets I think Doctorking did the right thing as playing it safe when gaining your wings as Axis will end in much less mistakes than trying to herd retreats and routs which will end in failure when first trying to learn

Much better to practice those kinds of tactics on smaller control groups you can set up after the first few turns have passed as they are the most important to get going with as little mistakes as possible

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 8:43:18 PM   
Ridgeway

 

Posts: 139
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Ultimately 4th panzer is only a couple of hexes behind and would unlikely be the cause of any real problems in AGN

The lack of infantry moving towards the Dvina may be an issue if Isaac defends Pskov in force as once the panzers arrived they would need to waste a couple of turns until any support from the infantry starts to arrive in force

About maximising the pockets I think Doctorking did the right thing as playing it safe when gaining your wings as Axis will end in much less mistakes than trying to herd retreats and routs which will end in failure when first trying to learn

Much better to practice those kinds of tactics on smaller control groups you can set up after the first few turns have passed as they are the most important to get going with as little mistakes as possible


I see your point and it definitely takes practice. From a game perspective, though, the issue for DK is that even more than being behind time-wise, most if not all those routed units East of the Germans are going to be able to escape and assist with the defense of L-grad, likely as a screen in the Velikaya river/Pskov region. Esp on T2 and T3, units are the most precious up there, and the more time it takes to get to the Luga, the longer other units there and Northward have to dig.

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/19/2018 10:36:32 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Some tips how to get RL friends who play WitE?


Join a wargaming club - almost all my hours of playing others in WitE are people I have seen in RL.

Must look for something like this around Berlin then. Every interest of me is shared by at least one friend of mine, except wargaming. It is not not that popular in Germany, maybe for historical reasons.

quote:

One other player here told me they were teaching their wife to play. Putting "to love and to obey, and to play hours of WitE until death do us part" seems a
very reasonable adjustment to wedding vows to me?

If he manages this he has married the right woman indeed!

Re the opening: That is an army worth of units routed out, but optimising the opening to the n-th degree is ahistorical and not everyones taste. As it is Isaacs first PvP game, it is a fair opening IMO.


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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/20/2018 7:32:37 PM   
STEF78


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From: Versailles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
.../... One other player here told me they were teaching their wife to play .../...


I've never met a woman playing wargames...

When we married I owned several wargames with map, counters and so on. For my wife, it was no more than a waste of place and time.

Now with computer wargaming, it's only a waste of time

Nice AAR, I will follow

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Post #: 14
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/20/2018 7:38:39 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
I've never met a woman playing wargames...


I know of at least one who is a contributor to these forums and plays WitE!

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/20/2018 7:57:30 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
I've never met a woman playing wargames...


I know of at least one who is a contributor to these forums and plays WitE!

Sincerely very happy that a woman can contribute to this game and this forum.

I should have tried with my daughters...

PS: sorry to troll this AAR




< Message edited by STEF78 -- 3/20/2018 7:58:19 PM >

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/24/2018 5:57:02 AM   
ICalli


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/19/2018
Status: offline 		Thanks to TheDr for roping me into this rabbit hole of a game. I hope that some day I have spent equal time actually playing the game as I have trying to figure it out.

TURN1

The GER opening moves took Riga, pushed within 5 hexes of Minsk, penetrated into the first 1/3 of the Pripyet, and created a massive Lvyov pocket by moving ARM to the Rumanian border. While toted as “pretty standard stuff” for the GER side by TheDr, I immediately recognize the experience mismatch and plight that the SOV side is in. Being my first PvP game, being on the receiving end of the Wermacht’s shock and awe is a little more overwhelming.

Other than sounding the retreat, I have started to identify fall back lines and potential organizational lines for both ground and air.

I am sure that I share most new player's despair with the massive losses both at the start of the turn and upcoming due to unbreakable pockets. Despite knowing that these units will return later, it is none the less distressing as I watch TheDr’s skilled scalpel descend into my armies.

Lots of complaints and lessons learned regarding 1st turn admin difficulties. Air management, SU management, organization hierarchy, TOE settings are on my list of things to get understood and under control within this game (and hopefully before the Germans knock out Leningrad and Moscow). Thank you now and in advance for all the sage advice this community has provided.


_____________________________

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Abraham Lincoln

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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/27/2018 2:23:42 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		At the beginning of my turn two, I was happy to see that the Lvov pocket was not re-opened. Isaac took his non-pocketed guys eastward about as fast as they could go, it appears. The two counter-strokes that he was able to do cut off a panzer division in the 3rd Panzer Group sector east of Kaunas and recapture Ventspils in northern Latvia. The Kaunas pocket was not defended, so I was able to open it easily. The units inside still have 50 movement points, though they were a bit low on combat value. The Latvian units still surrendered when I attacked them, so I guess perhaps the fact that I controlled Riga meant that Russian supply couldn’t move through Ventspils anyway

I was able to move most of my air units to forward positions using rebases. I left a few fighter squadrons on their rearward bases in order to recoup fatigue. I suspect that the Russian air force is mostly either in national reserve or running; in any case, I didn’t see any during my recon mission phase. I did have to send five JU-52 wings to national reserve to recoup, though I kept two on the map and rebased them to bases that had 100% fuel to see if that will allow them to reactivate their reserve aircraft next turn as suggested in various forum posts.

The first order of business for the ground forces is to reduce pockets. I have four to work on. The northwest Latvian one has about six units in it, the southern Lithuania one has four, the Bialystok one has something like 15, and the Lvov closer to 25. Given its size, reducing the Lvov pocket this turn will be a challenge, but one I want to succeed in because it will free my infantry for an eastward push next turn. I think this is a better use of my time than pushing far eastward with armor that will just run out of gas and be ineffective on turns 3-5 while it waits for the infantry to catch up. This is a change from my approach against Sparkleytits last game.

About two-thirds of the way through the turn, I realized that last turn I had done the thing where you set your high command HQ to support level 9 and set everybody else to 0, allowing support units to move up the chain of command so you can reassign them freely. You are supposed to then do the reassignment at the beginning of the turn. But I forgot. Didn’t seem to reduce the combat effectiveness of my guys, though. As you will see, I spent most of the turn fighting pocketed units with defense factors of like 2, so I didn’t need all that artillery support.

In the northern sector, I advanced as predicted, clearing out most of the Latvian pocket and pushing towards Pskov. I’m only seeing one unit on the other side of the Lake Piepus/Lake Pskov connection and so am thinking about sending 4th Panzer Group down that way. Supply and movement is very difficult due to the swamps, but if you can get through you can threaten to pocket the defenders of Pskov. And there are a lot of defenders of Pskov. Alternatively, both Panzer groups could attack the Pskov region with support from 18th Army’s infantry. I’m hoping for the opportunity for a big pocket in that area, though, making the capture of Leningrad sure. I’m going to threaten a move across the Narva region on the north end of Lake Piepus with at least two corps of 18th Army to keep the Russians honest in their defenses in this region. In our Leningrad scenario, Isaac kept forces on the Estonian islands, forcing me to send a security division to hold them. We’ll see if he tries that again.







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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/27/2018 2:24:50 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		In the Army Group Center area, I cleared the Bialystok pocket and pressed forward to isolate Minsk with 2nd Panzer Group. There is only one division in there. Isaac doesn’t seem to be digging into cities in the way I usually do when playing the Soviets. Contrary to the advice that most people give in AAR’s, I have sent an infantry corps, XII Corps, into the Pripyat Marshes to clear the rail line and cover the flank of AGC. When 2nd Army comes on line, I will assign XII Corps to them and have the whole army advance through that region, aiming to cross the Dnepr and take Gomel/Chernigov. This will hopefully be the base of a future pocket enclosing Soviet forces defending either the Kiev region or the northern bend of the Dnepr if he decides to hold in either of those places. For now, 2nd Panzer Group will advance menacingly towards the land bridge region, hopefully pinning large Soviet forces in position there.






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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/27/2018 2:26:13 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
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Status: offline 		Army Group South mostly reduced the Lvov pocket, though there are a few units still clinging to the east slopes of the Carpathians. In order to do this, I had to commit all of 1st Panzer Group, meaning that there were no advances against the unencircled Soviet forces in that region. I decided that wiping out the pocketed units and freeing my infantry for advances next turn took priority. Now, both 9th and 4th Armies will be able to advance freely for at least two turns. Also, hopefully, 1st Panzer Group will be in better supply and able to move rapidly next turn. In this sector, I intend to advance until I reach the Soviet main line of resistance, then do HQ buildups for all of 1st PG and try for a big pocket.

The Romanians got to move this turn thanks to the full encirclement in Lvov. They didn’t do much, though, aside from getting organized. 11th Army pushed across the Prut and contributed to the reduction of the Chernovtsy/Cernauti region of the Lvov pocket.






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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/27/2018 2:27:26 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Casualties this turn were 23,417 Axis to 476,805 Soviet. 69 Soviet units were destroyed, of which 48 were divisions. Air losses were 43 to 160 – 21 of my fighters were destroyed, which is a discouraging stat since I only get like 40 a turn. TOE shows 3.35 million Germans plus 682,000 Romanians versus 2.98 million Soviets.

Here's the Romanian front, not much excitement down here. I'll only post shots from here in the future if something exciting happens. Same with the Finns when they come in.





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RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/27/2018 2:27:37 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
About two-thirds of the way through the turn, I realized that last turn I had done the thing where you set your high command HQ to support level 9 and set everybody else to 0, allowing support units to move up the chain of command so you can reassign them freely. You are supposed to then do the reassignment at the beginning of the turn. But I forgot. Didn’t seem to reduce the combat effectiveness of my guys, though.


You probably know my comment already that is a good thing - leave them all in OKH.
Only assign them down if you need them just before you need them. My habit is to NOT assign them down at the start fo the turn, but just before I click to do any attack THEN decide whether to assign them down. I think it is the best habit to have.

Remember SUs will only be committed to battle by an HQ if they are within 5 hexes of a deliberate attack, or 5 hexes of a hasty attack AND the HQ has not moved. For Axis motorised units in the summer of 1941 this will virtually never be the case and even for infantry only occasionally. I am guessing this is why you saw little difference - because if you assign them down they will almost all of the time not be there.

By contrast the total collection of Axis SUs is equivalent to about 2 German field armies - by not moving them overground in corps and army HQs you save an enormous amount in damaged vehicles. And by keeping them in OKH which is presumably on a rail hex or closer to one, you are also saving enormous amounts of damaged vehicles in the logistics phase too.

I would dare say not assigning down all SUs but only a few when you can actually use them is less micromanagement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
In our Leningrad scenario, Isaac kept forces on the Estonian islands, forcing me to send a security division to hold them. We’ll see if he tries that again.


If, as the picture indicatess, he is keeping a staging base on the island it can be quite a cunning move. It means for instance his bombers could attack the Heinkel bomber factory at Rostock which is not well defended by the fighters frozen in bases in Germany. If Leningrad falls the islands will become isolated, but would still take turns to auto-surrender - so the staging base could be kept there for longer before being displaced. And if you try to force your way in, apart from the diversion of resources, they can probably hold on until you could capture Leningrad anyway. Most likely he will evacuate just before Leningrad falls.

Do I recognise that 4th panzer group line of advance from another game recently? :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
In this sector, I intend to advance until I reach the Soviet main line of resistance, then do HQ buildups for all of 1st PG and try for a big pocket.


In the first turns when motorised can get fuel from a shorter line to Rumania, and some are still full having been frozen to turn 2, I usually find you can get away with not doing HQBUs there.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 22
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/30/2018 2:57:29 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		My only concern with assigning SU's downwards at the moment of attack is that you cannot then assign them directly to units. I'm thinking that most German armored divisions should have some SU attached directly, and infantry divisions assaulting fortified positions should have pioneers and maybe StuG/Flamm tanks.

Or does the (generally) high initiative levels of German leaders mean that direct assignment of SU's is unnecessary? I'd think that especially for tanks in a mobile situation, this is about the only way to make sure the SU's are active in their battles.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 23
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 3/30/2018 3:04:03 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

My only concern with assigning SU's downwards at the moment of attack is that you cannot then assign them directly to units. I'm thinking that most German armored divisions should have some SU attached directly, and infantry divisions assaulting fortified positions should have pioneers and maybe StuG/Flamm tanks.


At least in my games it is fine to directly assign them then too? Even if they are in OKH you can directly assign it to a unit just before a battle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
I'd think that especially for tanks in a mobile situation, this is about the only way to make sure the SU's are active in their battles.


Particularly for Axis in 1941 it may be the only way for SUs to help tanks so this would be correct. I would just say leave your options open until you are sure you will need them just before a battle - and only then directly assign them. There is a points cost to unassigning them later as well as the logistics cost so long as you leave them directly assigned - so that needs to be part of your judgement there.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 3/30/2018 3:09:30 PM >

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 24
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/6/2018 8:54:16 PM   
ICalli


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/19/2018
Status: offline 		SOV turn 2 actually ended up being easier than turn 1. About half my units (to their detriment in later turns) screened while the other half retreated. Trying to keep a vision on what my final ideal organization will look like as I drive my divisions East. Right now, my fronts look like a rainbow from different commands.

Do other SOV players make an attempt to have units fall back into established positions based on ideal FRONT-ARMY-CORPS plans? This seems to be more efficient than using APs to change HQs but has been extremely difficult for me.

Designated a couple cities as "hero cities". Hopefully TheDr. engages them appropriately so I don't feel the opportunity cost of having those units elsewhere. I read a few AARs regarding forward defense of Leningrad and stuffed some extra units in there. I get the sense that if the GER side wants to focus extra PZRs in a line of advance, the SOVs can do little to stop them.

I see some posts giving TheDr advice. I am sure he will put it to immediate action pushing the helpless SOVs deeper into the dirt. There is a definite experience mismatch between us so any advice in my direction would be greatly appreciated! In a lot of cases, I lack the experience to even know where perspective could be used so please ask questions.

Thanks!

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(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 25
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/7/2018 3:14:26 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		On SU allocation: I make sure the Panzer Corps HQs are right up front with their units at the beginning of the turn. Then, I assign them artillery and don't move them. The motorized units shooting their way through the lines can benefit from SU support for five hexes, usually taking them through the Soviet defenses. The down side is that the Soviet player can tell where your attack is coming if he can see the Panzer Corps HQ's.

(in reply to ICalli)
Post #: 26
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/7/2018 7:32:48 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

On SU allocation: I make sure the Panzer Corps HQs are right up front with their units at the beginning of the turn. Then, I assign them artillery and don't move them. The motorized units shooting their way through the lines can benefit from SU support for five hexes, usually taking them through the Soviet defenses. The down side is that the Soviet player can tell where your attack is coming if he can see the Panzer Corps HQ's.


Many Soviets don't recon. If they do they don't do many sorties. So put your units in light woods or better if you can and the Soviets aren't going to be able to tell SH*T. They will get a grey counter in light woods or better. There your problem solved.


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(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 27
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/8/2018 3:51:10 PM   
ICalli


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/19/2018
Status: offline 		I haven't found much success with SOV 1941 recon. Regardless of how many sorties I fly, I haven't been able to get more than an indication that a unit is in woods/town. I would think that flying 25 missions would tell some detail, IE are there tanks in this town?

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(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 28
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/8/2018 3:54:30 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		worth reading the rules on maximum detection rates by air in the manual

5 for airbases
4 for other units in clear
2 for other units in other terrain near your ground units
1 otherwise

bottom line no matter how many sorties you fly your air will not give you more detail about a unit in town/woods

And unlike the Axis - you do not have or produce a lot of recon planes.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 4/8/2018 4:05:35 PM >

(in reply to ICalli)
Post #: 29
RE: TheDoctorKing vs Isaac 1941 Campaign - 4/8/2018 5:45:32 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ICalli

I haven't found much success with SOV 1941 recon. Regardless of how many sorties I fly, I haven't been able to get more than an indication that a unit is in woods/town. I would think that flying 25 missions would tell some detail, IE are there tanks in this town?


Exactly. You only need to make a few flights over the lines to give you the counters in the area and you are done. Basically, you will know the deposition of the German troops but not what they are. Unfortunately, the game engine treats Soviet reconnaissance as imbeciles who could not tell a cow in a pasture from a tank.

On the other hand, the Germans can get some pretty darn good intel with their reconnaissance flights.

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(in reply to ICalli)
Post #: 30
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