Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

From where do you think he brought in the supply to Luzon?

Probably from Balikpapan. He has around 40 AKL to play with in that area at the start of the game so despite the fact my subs and a/c have sunk maybe a dozen he has plenty left. It's very hard to intercept them with DDs as they always seem to manage to avoid contact, and trying to do so near Clark can be nasty if they react into Bataans minefield and CD guns..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

From where do you think he brought in the supply to Luzon?

Probably from Balikpapan. He has around 40 AKL to play with in that area at the start of the game so despite the fact my subs and a/c have sunk maybe a dozen he has plenty left. It's very hard to intercept them with DDs as they always seem to manage to avoid contact, and trying to do so near Clark can be nasty if they react into Bataans minefield and CD guns..

Is he running them in single ship task forces?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

28th Jan 42

Batavia auto switches sides in the night and the div lands there without any trouble. KB a/c pound Bandoeng airfield again which is showing at 80% damage, I will keep this up with several Lilly units diverted from Malaya.

Meanwhile over in the PI I lay a little cap trap for his low flying fighter bombers on naval attack but net a much more worthwhile target:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near San Fernando at 80,74

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 49

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 9

So my crappy Nates manage to shoot down almost a whole sqd of SBDs, nice. It also confirms he will probably have more based elsewhere on land ready to pounce on anything I leave undefended. Going off the number of AKL sightings around Clark he probably has enough supply there already to last till doomsday, which is worrying because this attack came from there:

Night Air attack on Taihoku , at 87,63

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 8

No Allied losses

Manpower hits 6
Fires 3000

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
City Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

A very worrying development as I have almost no defence against this at night. There are no HR preventing ANY strat bombing on the map, but I've asked him just to clarify this 100% before I retaliate....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes he certainly does not seem to miss any little opening so far. We have agreed to unlimited strat bombing but 4E must be at least 10k ft and 2E 5k ft. Not great but I can live with it. May come in useful in China....

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes he certainly does not seem to miss any little opening so far. We have agreed to unlimited strat bombing but 4E must be at least 10k ft and 2E 5k ft. Not great but I can live with it. May come in useful in China....

I'd never agree to that as Allies. Why do you want that HR? It was entirely possible for the Allies to bomb Japanese industry at any altitude during the war, and most later bombing of Japan was much lower than 10k.

Strat bombing is not overpowered. Airfield and Port night bombing are definitely too strong, but strat bombing should be left alone. It makes the game much more fun, for both sides, to allow the Allies something they can actually fight for in the early stages of the war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes he certainly does not seem to miss any little opening so far. We have agreed to unlimited strat bombing but 4E must be at least 10k ft and 2E 5k ft. Not great but I can live with it. May come in useful in China....

I'd never agree to that as Allies. Why do you want that HR? It was entirely possible for the Allies to bomb Japanese industry at any altitude during the war, and most later bombing of Japan was much lower than 10k.

Strat bombing is not overpowered. Airfield and Port night bombing are definitely too strong, but strat bombing should be left alone. It makes the game much more fun, for both sides, to allow the Allies something they can actually fight for in the early stages of the war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Yes he certainly does not seem to miss any little opening so far. We have agreed to unlimited strat bombing but 4E must be at least 10k ft and 2E 5k ft. Not great but I can live with it. May come in useful in China....

I'd never agree to that as Allies. Why do you want that HR? It was entirely possible for the Allies to bomb Japanese industry at any altitude during the war, and most later bombing of Japan was much lower than 10k.

Strat bombing is not overpowered. Airfield and Port night bombing are definitely too strong, but strat bombing should be left alone. It makes the game much more fun, for both sides, to allow the Allies something they can actually fight for in the early stages of the war.

I am happy with unlimited strat bombing, however I suggested a min alt just to stop things getting silly as 4E can cause havoc at 1k ft. He is the one who came up with the 10k figure. In the long run it makes no difference and I am going to lose anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

29th Jan-5th Feb 42


PI: I'm getting rather worried here now as it looks like he has shipped in another Philippine div from one of the islands to the south. With 2200AV behind 4 forts sitting under 130 P40s....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller
Elsewhere: My recon from the Marshall Is has picked up numerous ships on and off for the past week west of Johnston Is. I don't know if this is just a diversion or not but they got a lot closer the last few turns. I like an early invasion of the Marshalls when playing as the Allies so perhaps this is his intention. I only really have subs and one Netty sqd in the area to oppose him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Mr. Kane is capable of building quite the supply air bridge to China...in another game he was dumping over 2000 supply a day into China.

If possible some Long range recon of the Indian bases might be called for although I am not sure what you can really do with that information at this point.

Against a skilled Allied opponent, that understands and has played Japan, Scenario 1 is extremely difficult.

Be careful with your fast pace....it probably gives an advantage to Mr. Kane at present.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I never put a figure on it, but yes you can move a bunch of supply into China. It is probably not enough to prevent Chungking plain from falling, other things being equal, but it certainly can sustain a significant force in the mountain redoubt adjacent Burma. That in turn ties up additional Imperial troops.

The only ways to stop that are 1) capture the mountain redoubt or 2) capture the Indian airfields in range. The mass of transports is not available at campaign start, so undermining the mountain redoubt early is one approach.

The other approach, capturing the Indian airfields, is certainly something Japan players do from time to time but does it fit with your strategy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think the air updates were ported to stock scenarios. PDU off should make it harder for Japan. It also makes it harder for the Allies but the net effect in any given area and era I don't know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Erik, not sure I agree with your assessment. Not disagreeing either, but I don't think it is quite so cut and dry.

China is about supply balance; fighting burns supply but also burns up troops which reduces supply needs for the allies. On the IJ side, units trashed is great for PP expenditures, but it eats up a lot of supply rebuilding them. Combat also eats up a lot of supply.

Whether the allies can keep Chungking or not isn't really the goal, its more about burning as much IJ supply as they can. How well china can accomplish that is about how well they can manage their supply.

So, two overarching strategies for the allies in china: get into x3 terrain and wait for the stack to come OR try to force combat before the allies are really ready. We've seen the outcome of the first strategy fairly repeatedly now in a dozen or so AAR's: Chungking falls before Jan43 depending upon the relative focus and strengths of the two players. Inevitable is a proximate description. What we see now is the allies attempting the 2nd strategy, one not taken as often in the recent past by a player with some skill. How well will this work? Unknown at this point, but so far he has been successful as it is an unanticipated strategy. Miller is also a player with some skill and will now adapt. Final outcome? Well, if the allies are able to hold Chungking into mid '43, that will have proven to me that it is a far better strategy. Why? Every month that goes by with the IJ fully committed (in terms of units, operational tempo => meaning supply usage) is a win for the allies. IJ wants china out of the war for sure, no doubt. But it works best when the price (in terms of supply) is lower.

All obvious observations, just restated so that we all keep our focus...

Just my thoughts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I think the air updates were ported to stock scenarios. PDU off should make it harder for Japan. It also makes it harder for the Allies but the net effect in any given area and era I don't know.

So few people play a scenario 1 game, let alone stock with no stacking limits, it is easy to forgot how tough Japan has it.

Miller was shocked to see how pitiful his starting air force was for example. I think his air production is now at 120 Zeroes and 150 Oscars, and I bet he will wish he had more, and gone after the Tojo IIa aggressively.

Japan has done well, getting Singers quickly, but I bet you China will survive because of the game settings and scenario.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs



I never put a figure on it, but yes you can move a bunch of supply into China. It is probably not enough to prevent Chungking plain from falling, other things being equal, but it certainly can sustain a significant force in the mountain redoubt adjacent Burma. That in turn ties up additional Imperial troops.

The only ways to stop that are 1) capture the mountain redoubt or 2) capture the Indian airfields in range. The mass of transports is not available at campaign start, so undermining the mountain redoubt early is one approach.

The other approach, capturing the Indian airfields, is certainly something Japan players do from time to time but does it fit with your strategy?

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs



I never put a figure on it, but yes you can move a bunch of supply into China. It is probably not enough to prevent Chungking plain from falling, other things being equal, but it certainly can sustain a significant force in the mountain redoubt adjacent Burma. That in turn ties up additional Imperial troops.

The only ways to stop that are 1) capture the mountain redoubt or 2) capture the Indian airfields in range. The mass of transports is not available at campaign start, so undermining the mountain redoubt early is one approach.

The other approach, capturing the Indian airfields, is certainly something Japan players do from time to time but does it fit with your strategy?

How can you possibly resupply China, at the beginning of the game/war, with the pitiful number of transport planes available to the allies at that time??

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs



I never put a figure on it, but yes you can move a bunch of supply into China. It is probably not enough to prevent Chungking plain from falling, other things being equal, but it certainly can sustain a significant force in the mountain redoubt adjacent Burma. That in turn ties up additional Imperial troops.

The only ways to stop that are 1) capture the mountain redoubt or 2) capture the Indian airfields in range. The mass of transports is not available at campaign start, so undermining the mountain redoubt early is one approach.

The other approach, capturing the Indian airfields, is certainly something Japan players do from time to time but does it fit with your strategy?

How can you possibly resupply China, at the beginning of the game/war, with the pitiful number of transport planes available to the allies at that time??

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

At Changsha he has the Heavy Urban terrain advantage too, which has a defensive value of x4... From page 195: "Fortifications enhance the defensive fire of ground units and also make defenders harder to hit; therefore, defenders are given some advantages in combat."

Some of the formites seem to think that just means you have to have four times the AV value in your stack. I think you still want more AV (I always like to have the biggest hammer) but you can suppress some of that terrain advantage by using bombardment, recon, and air support. Or you can try to surround the hex and starve them out but that takes forever and a day. In looking at the combat it looks like you have no tanks in your stack?

Umm - I wanted to add - if you attack the enemy airfields it causes damage and fixing the damage eats up supplies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

quote:

ORIGINAL: durnedwolf

At Changsha he has the Heavy Urban terrain advantage too, which has a defensive value of x4... From page 195: "Fortifications enhance the defensive fire of ground units and also make defenders harder to hit; therefore, defenders are given some advantages in combat."

Some of the formites seem to think that just means you have to have four times the AV value in your stack. I think you still want more AV (I always like to have the biggest hammer) but you can suppress some of that terrain advantage by using bombardment, recon, and air support. Or you can try to surround the hex and starve them out but that takes forever and a day. In looking at the combat it looks like you have no tanks in your stack?

Umm - I wanted to add - if you attack the enemy airfields it causes damage and fixing the damage eats up supplies.

IIRC Changsha is a light urban hex so its x2 bonus, I would have no chance if it was x4. I have tank units inbound and they should get there in 4-5 days time, fingers crossed they tip the balance....