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A New Campaign - 6/6/2001 11:58:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I've been doing a lot of reading of late on the fighting in the Hurtgen Forest of late. I found it to be intensely interesting and tragically sad for both sides. One thing I did not know was that the US 28th Infantry Division, a National Guard unit from Pennsylvania, was thrust into the Hurtgen, began fighting on November 2nd and by November 13th had to be pulled from the line with losses exceeding 30% It had been literally "shot to pieces." I think that is a great title for a smaller campaign, focusing on the second battle for Schmidt, from November 3rd through November 8th. What do you think? Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 1
- 6/7/2001 12:01:00 AM   
Tankhead

 

Posts: 1352
Joined: 6/21/2000
From: Yukon Territory Canada
Status: offline 		Hi Wild Bill It sounds great to me, I was reading about this a while ago, I for one would love to see it you have my support. Tankhead

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Tankhead


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Post #: 2
- 6/7/2001 12:07:00 AM   
achappelle

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 5/11/2001
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		Sounds great WB, with your penchant for surprises, I'm sure it'll be a challenge to play.

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"Molon Labe" - Leonidas @ Thermopylae (Come Get Them!!)

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Post #: 3
- 6/7/2001 12:21:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Thanks, Gentlemen! I appreciate the encouragement. Campaigns require a lot of work and testing. The Hurtgen is not one of those more glamorous periods of WW2 history but there was a lot of courage on both sides during some very bloody fighting! Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 4
- 6/7/2001 12:36:00 AM   
Mikimoto

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline 		Hello. It is a great Campaign idea. The terrain is almost as interesting as the norman bocage. Have you seen the film "When trumpets fade", about the fighting in the Hurtgen forest? Bloody one.

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Desperta ferro!
Miquel Guasch Aparicio

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Post #: 5
- 6/7/2001 12:43:00 AM   
Alexandra


Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		I think any campaign idea you have Bill is well worth it. Should I be pouring the sand out of my tester hat in anticipation :)? Alex

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Post #: 6
- 6/7/2001 1:01:00 AM   
pops

 

Posts: 252
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ontario Canada
Status: offline 		Sounds great! I'm especially happy to see something new from the Allied side...seems like everything new is from the German side lately (I like playing the Allies...keeps me emotionally involved..)

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- 6/7/2001 2:49:00 AM   
darroch

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: US
Status: offline 		WB, I like the idea - especially in your hands... BTW, you know the "shot-up" 28th went from the Hurtgen to a "quiet" zone in the Ardennes... Talk about bad karma... Your idea could be a mini-campaign in the HF then later a second mini could be added to reflect the Ardennes... The whole thing would offer some sobering insights into the problems besetting a commander of a 1944 infantry formation...if the historical OOB was used, I would expect a lot of rank-n-file infantry formations rather than the sexy rangers, airborne, commandos, and tanks that we all love to buy... Reality was that the rank-n-file dogface did most of the fighting and dying (see Citizen Soldiers by S. Ambrose)in plain old rifle squads with, if he was lucky, some MG and mortar support... I think a lot of us would be interested in this treatment...(hint-hint: I'd buy the mega-campaign!) And IF you're looking for new ideas for campaigns, here's some that I WISH I had the time to do...there's a lot of mileage to be made by basing the campaign around a battalion sized unit of famous Divisions (other than the ever popular marines, SS, and airborne Divs - they have tended to get overdone in my humble opinion). For example: 7th Brit Armored (Africa, Sicliy?, NW Europe) 11th GE Panzer (Ukraine '41, Stalingrad Rescue '42, Kursk-Sud '43, Anvil/Dragoon (Southern France '44) 2nd New Zealand Div (Greece, Crete, NA, Italy) IT Ariete Armored Div Hermann Goring Panzer Div? 4th US Armored (Patton and Wood) GE Blue (Spanish) Infantry Division near Leningrad - seems to be a start on scenarios for this one... I'm sure there are similar Canadian, Finnish, and other nationalities' divisions that could be used. I don't know of any Russian formations but there are probably some good ones from '43 onwards... Also, one could also model the evolution of the British Guards Armored Division - components of which fought in every major (and most of the minor) British actions - one's core force could be a battalion of the Guards when the Panzers roll through France in '40.....eventually the path would lead to Goodwood, Totalize, and Arnhem... Maybe someone could follow certain lesser-known personalities: Campaigns based on LeClerc (start in command of a ragtag force in the desert and end with 2nd French Armored - liberate Paris and Marseilles)? Von Luck? Start with Rommel in France - end up with 21st Panzer - along the way fight just about every major combatant at the time... Oh I wish I had the time!!!! SO many scenarios and so little time to build 'em and play 'em... :( Such a nice problem to have though :D :D :D

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Post #: 8
- 6/7/2001 2:55:00 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		WB, I think you have a winner there. Bitterly fought and tough going - the stuff that fun scenarios are made of. Good luck!

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Post #: 9
- 6/7/2001 3:39:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I appreciate the encouragement very much. A done deal. I've already done a great deal of research and will get on it. In fact the map is designed. The fighting of those 5 days will take place on the same map...that shows you just how bloody it was. And fade into the Ardennes, part 2? Excellent idea, Darroch. I like your list The 2nd NZ is a fine idea! Hey Redleg, looks like you're going to have to put that "Blue" stuff of yours into a campaign. By all means, pour out that sand and put away the sun-block, Alexandra. You won't need it where you are going ;). I'm with you, Pops, ready for something from the Allied side for a change. I'll keep you posted and probably ask for some testing help. Thanks to all of you! Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 10
- 6/7/2001 3:49:00 AM   
achappelle

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 5/11/2001
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		A couple of famous units, how about the US Big Red One, or the Russian 138th Division who fought and died almost to a mna in Stalingrad.

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Post #: 11
- 6/7/2001 3:57:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Now see, you guys have got me more excited than a kid in a toy store! What do I chose next? They are all such good themes! Wild Bill

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 12
- 6/7/2001 4:12:00 AM   
fontenoy

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 4/7/2001
From: London,Ontario,Canada
Status: offline 		Hello WB Just a suggestion.How about a scenario of the Canadians at Ortona,Italy.It would be much like the current Stalingrad scenarios,in that it was fought house to house through the the city.Although nowhere near the same duration.Having played several of your scenarios,whichever you decide to create will be just fine with me. Regards, Fontenoy.

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- 6/7/2001 5:10:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Good one Fontenoy! I'll look up some info and see what I can do...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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- 6/7/2001 5:42:00 AM   
Figmo

 

Posts: 556
Joined: 5/28/2000
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds Great Wild Man!! If it's anything like your other Hurtgen Forest stuff - it will be REAL tuff!! I can feel the mud and blood in my boots now!! Figmo

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Post #: 15
- 6/7/2001 6:12:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I appreciate that, mighty Figmo. I'm on it! WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 16
- 6/7/2001 7:10:00 AM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Do it!

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Retreat is NOT an option.



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Post #: 17
- 6/7/2001 7:46:00 AM   
gators

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 5/16/2001
Status: offline 		Darroch another possibility for all the Ostfront fans is a campaign based on the Grossdeutchland regiment/divsion/corps. It was around for most of the major events in the East, and really was even more of the fireman than some of the more well known SS formations (LH, Das Reich, and Totenkopf). Non illegetimi carborundum :p :p :p :p

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Post #: 18
- 6/7/2001 8:27:00 AM   
DCruiser

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 9/27/2000
From: Lower Sackville, NS, Canada
Status: offline 		For info on Ortona, check Mark Zuehlke's book "Ortona", published in 1999. ISBN 0-7737-3198-9. Cost is 22.36 at Amazon. Cheers, DCruiser

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Post #: 19
- 6/7/2001 10:19:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I'm on it, DCruiser! Many thanks...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
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Post #: 20
- 6/7/2001 5:14:00 PM   
Gordon_freeman

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 5/14/2001
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Dear Wild Will (and all the others who replied), I like the little camapigns as much as the long ones. So, Hürtgen Wald (as we call it) is a very intersting battle to cover. The wargamer that I am I allways ask myself wether u all do the "old" boardgames, cause a company called "the gamers" cover exactly this campaign. So, if u need unit backgrounds or a real, real good map, try to get hold of "Objective Schimdt". It's all in there. If u got further questions, post it, I'll check frequently. To the others: A Grossdeutschland Campaign would defenetly be something for a "MEGA" campaign. something like 300+ battles go through my mind (kiding). All the other ideas, only a single word: Great! I just wonder wether u all know ASL (Advanced Squad Leader), the game who seems to be the idea of SP and all that followed. So, I hope it is informative George P.S. PLease read my last statemant in "My fictive Kursk Campaign", cause it deals with "Campaigns" as well, I am curious....

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Post #: 21
- 6/7/2001 5:56:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		I did read your article on Kursk and posted a note there for you. I'm very familiar with both ASL and "The Gamers" series of games. They have some great material and the SL/ASL series are classics, no doubt about that! I'll see if I can find Objective Schmidt. I'll be posting more on this as we go along, but I'm glad to hear from you, George. WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 22
- 6/7/2001 7:50:00 PM   
TheZel66

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 4/6/2001
From: Phila, PA
Status: offline 		Hey Bill, There are a lot of ideas on this thread. Maybe you could give a class on campaign design, something I have NO knowledge on whatsoever.

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Post #: 23
- 6/7/2001 8:19:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Excellent idea, Zel. Give me a few days to prepare a little material for those interested...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 24
- 6/8/2001 3:16:00 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Mein Oberst, This ideia sounds marvelous!! count me in for test it!! and about the ideia of a class for campaing makers, I enjoyed it a lot.. :D I'm thinking to design a small campaing about Operation Mercury. The scenario about Heraklion assault is already been tested so I already have two: Maleme and Heraklion Go Ahead Teacher!!! -------------- Senta à Pua!!!

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Post #: 25
- 6/8/2001 3:39:00 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Mein Oberst, This ideia sounds marvelous!! count me in for test it!! and about the ideia of a class for campaing makers, I enjoyed it a lot.. :D I'm thinking to design a small campaing about Operation Mercury. The scenario about Heraklion assault is already been tested so I already have two: Maleme and Heraklion Go Ahead Teacher!!! -------------- Senta à Pua!!!

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Post #: 26
- 6/8/2001 3:40:00 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Mein Oberst, This ideia sounds marvelous!! count me in for test it!! and about the ideia of a class for campaing makers, I enjoyed it a lot.. :D I'm thinking to design a small campaing about Operation Mercury. The scenario about Heraklion assault is already been tested so I already have two: Maleme and Heraklion Go Ahead Teacher!!! -------------- Senta à Pua!!!

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Post #: 27
- 6/10/2001 12:09:00 AM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		yeah, ...as frequent visitor of the huertgen forest area (..relics hunting with MD), I´m very interested in your mini campaign as well, WB! :) Also the "stolberg corridor" battle or the fightings before/after november44 in the area would be great,..something I have in my bag. Or "heartbreak crossroads"? If I can help with newer 1:25000 map scans of the area, let me know. _________ Harry

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Post #: 28
- 6/10/2001 1:22:00 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Thanks for the support, fellas. Hard at work as we speak...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

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Post #: 29
- 6/10/2001 6:41:00 PM   
Commander Klank

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 10/15/2000
From: Killleen, Texas
Status: offline 		WB, I'm from Pennsylvania and I know from (a little)family oral history what your reffering to. All I can say to all the guys that are saying, "Yeah go for it!" is get ready to get "shot to pieces". Unless of course your planning on playing the Germans. I'm glad its you thats doing this WB, not becouse you make great senerios but becouse you have a real sence of the sacerfice that many of these soldiers made.

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Commander Klank


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