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RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/24/2018 10:00:05 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD8eic4uLUw

The guy is German youtuber, WW2 analyser.

Go to 07:30. Almost 40% of German bombers were deployed to the mediterranean and N.A. during 1942.






1) What's your point?

2) Who is this guy?



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Post #: 121
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/24/2018 11:11:51 PM   
Ktonos

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 3/16/2018
Status: offline 		1) Massed air groups is my point
2)
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos
The guy is German youtuber, WW2 analyser.


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Post #: 122
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 12:04:46 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Hummm... How much game unit would represent 40% of germany's bombers at that juncture?

2 tac + 1 med? More than that?

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Post #: 123
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 12:12:19 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Hummm... How much game unit would represent 40% of germany's bombers at that juncture?

2 tac + 1 med? More than that?





In the entire Mediterranean and that represents mass air bombings.


Substantiated by some unknown "youtuber" who did a video.


Want to buy a bridge?


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Post #: 124
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 12:34:55 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

The PBEM game is quite different you should try it.

Tried it. Nothing nice to say about it.

Thanks for the explanation, now I understand it. Another fine reason not to play with humans

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Post #: 125
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 10:44:18 AM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

The PBEM game is quite different you should try it.

Tried it. Nothing nice to say about it.

Thanks for the explanation, now I understand it. Another fine reason not to play with humans







fair enough. I played SC2 vs AI for probably thousands of hours.




< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/25/2018 10:45:25 AM >

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Post #: 126
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 12:53:38 PM   
Ktonos

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin


In the entire Mediterranean and that represents mass air bombings.


Substantiated by some unknown "youtuber" who did a video.


Want to buy a bridge?



I don't know the reason you are so touchy when it comes to Spain, massed air and Sugar's victory streak. You are using irony and the end result when using irony can only be toxic.

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Post #: 127
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 2:45:36 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		I find it ironic that you think irony is toxic. No reason to get personal. geez





< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/25/2018 3:26:36 PM >

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Post #: 128
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 3:33:10 PM   
Ktonos

 

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Status: offline 		Mate, irony is toxic unless between close friends, when its fun.

How is it my argument doesn't make sense? "Substantiated by some unknown "youtuber" who did a video" you say, but this isn't true, you dismiss him as a random guy without checking if he is a random guy. He is a known youtuber amongst people following WW2, he has extended bookmarks for his research and has more than one video. Surely more than one. He has hundreds of them.
Most of his data comes from actual German army records and files. The closest to specific I've seen you bringing to the table is something vague on the lines of "most valid historians support this or that"

"In the entire Mediterranean" you say, implying that this 40% of the German bombers could be spread out in other Mediterranean theatres apart from North Africa.
Mediterranean 1942. Where is air conflict in Med 1942 other than North Africa?

PS And of course we can consider as a fact that air conflict in the actual Med is directly related to North African campaign.

< Message edited by Ktonos -- 4/25/2018 3:34:36 PM >

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Post #: 129
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/25/2018 3:51:46 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

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quote:

Where is air conflict in Med 1942 other than North Africa?



Malta (Sicily)



"Substantiated by some unknown "youtuber" who did a video" you say, but this isn't true, you dismiss him as a random guy without checking if he is a random guy. He is a known youtuber amongst people following WW2, he has extended bookmarks for his research and has more than one video. Surely more than one. He has hundreds of them.
Most of his data comes from actual German army records and files."



Why didn't you just say so when I first asked instead of getting all emotional.

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Post #: 130
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/27/2018 2:02:23 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Its never happened to me but its my understanding that its a popular "trick" for Axis to take all of GB but just surround London (w/o taking it). This will prevent the re-localisation of GB capital, prevents deploying new units and also locks the convoy routes. Its something that should probably change, its an AI => PBEM thing.

The PBEM game is quite different you should try it.


This would prevent the transfer of the capital, but not the deployment of new units as Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester are all Industrial Centers.

I think what matters is whether the destination ports in the UK are being reduced to below strength 5 in order to disrupt them, whereas if the Capital changed to (say) Canada then this wouldn't be the case and British income wouldn't be penalized by this. Working out a solution to this is not an easy task unfortunately.

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Post #: 131
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/27/2018 2:24:01 PM   
Ktonos

 

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Status: offline 		I had my opponent take the whole island bar London. I then had new units in my turn and when clicking on them to deploy a pop up message called "No room to place new units" (or something like that).

After a while I requested to capture London, which he did. But from then on, it was like Britain had surrendered, but not the minors associated with her. I mean there was no capital transfer to Canada. Units already in the que disappeared. Britain was removed from the Research tab and the purchase units tab - but I could purchase units for Canada.

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Post #: 132
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/27/2018 4:17:32 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Its never happened to me but its my understanding that its a popular "trick" for Axis to take all of GB but just surround London (w/o taking it). This will prevent the re-localisation of GB capital, prevents deploying new units and also locks the convoy routes. Its something that should probably change, its an AI => PBEM thing.

The PBEM game is quite different you should try it.


This would prevent the transfer of the capital, but not the deployment of new units as Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester are all Industrial Centers.

I think what matters is whether the destination ports in the UK are being reduced to below strength 5 in order to disrupt them, whereas if the Capital changed to (say) Canada then this wouldn't be the case and British income wouldn't be penalized by this. Working out a solution to this is not an easy task unfortunately.






Thanks Bill. Ktonos (above) has a better description of the issue than mine. I would guess one remedy would be for Canada to become a major and all attributes of GB transfer to them but I'm betting thats a Herculean task. Maybe GB gets to place troops in Canada or USA gets GB MPP's.



< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/27/2018 4:18:35 PM >

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Post #: 133
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/27/2018 7:30:30 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I've put some thought to this 'surround London' trick due to a similar situation in Russia. Playing against the Axis computer, when it approaches Moscow I would rather move the capital back to Kuybyshev myself instead of waiting for the computer to capture the hex itself. But the only thing that I came up with was an event something like 'if one or more Axis units are within three hexes of Moscow, trigger a DE to move the USSR capital to Kuybyshev'.
Reading about this London 'rooking' makes me wonder if the same type of DE might work there. However, I think that capitals aren't moved by DE, rather they are hard coded? So maybe with all the different possibilities, something like this isn't possible.

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Post #: 134
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/29/2018 7:38:35 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		You're right, we can't force capitals to move via script so the only alternative would be force a surrender of the UK in the event that someone takes the whole island but without taking London.

It's not ideal and certainly not easy to do. A bit of a headache really but if I can work out a way to avoid this then I'll implement it in the future.

I'd personally rather my opponents didn't play that way either!





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Post #: 135
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/29/2018 8:38:20 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

You're right, we can't force capitals to move via script so the only alternative would be force a surrender of the UK in the event that someone takes the whole island but without taking London.

It's not ideal and certainly not easy to do. A bit of a headache really but if I can work out a way to avoid this then I'll implement it in the future.

I'd personally rather my opponents didn't play that way either!









Agreed. Its an incredibly lame move.


< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 4/29/2018 8:43:22 PM >

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Post #: 136
RE: Mass Air Groups - 4/29/2018 9:38:09 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		This is for humor only - I've had some recent e-mails between designers of another game discussing this very thing [how human players will do silly stuff to get an advantage]. We've had some fun suggesting different things that we can do to the game with events, rather than coding, to spank such a player. For an SC3 example, if London is being rooked, then German NM goes down 10000 per turn, along with a message 'You are being a jerk, and everyone knows it' !

Just for laughs, we wouldn't really do such a thing

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Post #: 137
RE: Mass Air Groups - 5/2/2018 2:18:44 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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Post #: 138
RE: Mass Air Groups - 5/2/2018 3:03:55 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Ve have vays of dealing with this insolence!!!

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Post #: 139
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