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RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta

 
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RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 5:57:17 PM   
YohanTM


Posts: 114
Joined: 9/30/2013
Status: offline 		One of the key things I'm seeing in more competitive play is the teleportation of air units. One moment they are in the middle east and a turn they are in the west and then later in the year poof, over they go to the east. It does happen with massive moves of land units over great distances in no time but not nearly as game impacting. Maybe the easiest way to fix is limit operating of units to a few per turn and tied to that countries logistics levels.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 31
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 6:02:31 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		It is expensive to do that, because you also have to move HQs to support them.

I wonder what Sugar is giving up to do all that and to max out all tank and plane research (including long range). At the very least I presume minimal naval and naval research investment.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to YohanTM)
Post #: 32
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 6:27:55 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		Sugar believes naval war to be overestimated, hehe.

quote:

One moment they are in the middle east and a turn they are in the west and then later in the year poof, over they go to the east.


You may consider 1 turn to represent 3 weeks on average. Neither by rail nor by air would it take more than a few days to travel from Lisboa to Moskau (4000 KMs), even in 1939.

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 33
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 6:31:36 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		But the planes in the game could fly themselves from one end of the map to the other within one turn easily. The game already makes it more difficult to do this by giving planes a restricted movement allowance and then charging MPP's if you want to Operate over that limit. I can see reason to loosen it up a bit, but not to add further restriction

(in reply to YohanTM)
Post #: 34
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 6:33:26 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YohanTM

One of the key things I'm seeing in more competitive play is the teleportation of air units. One moment they are in the middle east and a turn they are in the west and then later in the year poof, over they go to the east. It does happen with massive moves of land units over great distances in no time but not nearly as game impacting. Maybe the easiest way to fix is limit operating of units to a few per turn and tied to that countries logistics levels.


Land unit are as big offenders IMO.

+ 1 regarding logistic/operating. It is something I championed for in the past.

Would force keeping a bit more of garrison force since you can't rely on teleporting your whole army overnight to deal with a threat.

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Post #: 35
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 7:07:54 PM   
Ktonos

 

Posts: 282
Joined: 3/16/2018
Status: offline 		Agreed, but... you know that changing this will be a big hit in Axis overall efficiency, as Axis is in the greatest need of operating around land units. Far greater need. Such a change might through the game balance totally towards the allied side.

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Post #: 36
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 7:36:14 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Sugar believes naval war to be overestimated, hehe.

quote:

One moment they are in the middle east and a turn they are in the west and then later in the year poof, over they go to the east.


You may consider 1 turn to represent 3 weeks on average. Neither by rail nor by air would it take more than a few days to travel from Lisboa to Moskau (4000 KMs), even in 1939.


For one guy on a vacation maybe. 30,000+ troops, their vehicles and their supply probably not. And that's just a single corp.

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Post #: 37
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/30/2018 8:33:16 PM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

Deutsche Reichsbahn (1937 to 1945)


quote:

With the Act for the New Regulation of the Conditions of the Reichsbank and the Deutsche Reichsbahn (Gesetz zur Neuregelung der Verhältnisse der Reichsbank und der Deutschen Reichsbahn) of 10 February 1937 the Deutsche Reichsbahn Gesellschaft was placed under Reich sovereignty and was given the name Deutsche Reichsbahn.
World War II and military use

The Reichsbahn had an important logistic role in supporting the rapid movement of the troops of the Wehrmacht, for example:

March 1938: the invasion of Austria ("Anschluss") and
October 1938: the occupation of the Sudetenland after the Munich Agreement
March 1939: the defeat of the remainder of Czechoslovakia
September/October 1939: the invasion of Poland
April 1940: Operation Weserübung (the occupation of Denmark and Norway)
May/June 1940: the Battle of France
1941: Operation Barbarossa and the Balkan Campaign.

In all the occupied lands the Reichsbahn endeavoured to incorporate the captured railways (rolling stock and infrastructure) into their system. Even towards the end of the war the Reichsbahn continued to move military formations. For example, in the last great offensive, the Battle of the Bulge (from 16 December 1944), tank formations were transported from Hungary to the Ardennes.
(Namely the whole 6. PzArmee, according to the german Wikipedia)

quote:

The logistics of the Reichsbahn were crucial to the conduct of Germany's military offensives. The preparations for the invasion of Russia saw the greatest troop deployment by rail in history.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Reichsbahn

This is Europe, not the US.

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 38
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/31/2018 12:23:07 AM   
Trump2016

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 8/24/2013
Status: offline 		Are we talking moving troops from say France to Poland?, which had an extensive rail network.

I think the issue is moving corp/armies from Spain to Turkey to Russia etc. in a 3 week time frame

Also, larger capacity needed to move infantry vs Armor., and pacified regions vs war zones play a part.

Barbarossa was carried out until ideal conditions (great rail network, at peace with Russia, no different rail gauge), even still it took many months to move the required units at maximum effort



(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 39
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/31/2018 12:58:14 AM   
KorutZelva

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar


March 1938: the invasion of Austria ("Anschluss") and
October 1938: the occupation of the Sudetenland after the Munich Agreement
March 1939: the defeat of the remainder of Czechoslovakia
September/October 1939: the invasion of Poland
April 1940: Operation Weserübung (the occupation of Denmark and Norway)
May/June 1940: the Battle of France
1941: Operation Barbarossa and the Balkan Campaign.



There's 5+ months between most of these operations, they involved relatively short distances and AFAIK Norway and France were conducted by different troops. The only one good example in that list would be the shifting from Greece to Barbarossa.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 40
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/31/2018 6:28:45 AM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		The article is not referring to a specific question, in fact every single movement of troops further than a few KMs happened on the railway in case of absence of fighting (and sometimes even unloading directly onto the battlefield). On average an entire div. is transported on 4-6 trains; Germany had ca. 48000 locomotives and nearly 1000000 wagons in 1945).

What might be misleading is the size of troops reflected in game: the strongest german Heeresgruppe (Mitte) consisted of 3-4 armies in total, an army of 2-3 corps, a corps of 2-3 divisions (38 Div. in 6/44). There are far more troops in game than historically, if you only look at the given names.

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Post #: 41
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/31/2018 8:59:51 AM   
Trump2016

 

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Status: offline 		An Infantry Division required 70 trains and a Panzer or Motorized Division required from 90 to 100 trains.

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 42
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 5/31/2018 10:33:43 PM   
YohanTM


Posts: 114
Joined: 9/30/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Sugar believes naval war to be overestimated, hehe.

quote:

One moment they are in the middle east and a turn they are in the west and then later in the year poof, over they go to the east.


You may consider 1 turn to represent 3 weeks on average. Neither by rail nor by air would it take more than a few days to travel from Lisboa to Moskau (4000 KMs), even in 1939.


You're kidding I assume. Moving an entire air unit including it's support units and personnel from Tobruk to Paris in 3 weeks?

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 43
RE: Strategic Command v1.12.02 Beta - 6/1/2018 9:04:18 AM   
Sugar

 

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Joined: 3/16/2017
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quote:

Moving an entire air unit including it's support units and personnel from Tobruk to Paris in 3 weeks?


Sure. Tobruk has got a port, Marseille also, and a nice railway to Paris. Even if you were transporting the equipment by trucks to Tripolis it wouldn't take more than 2 weeks (average time for supply columns to deal with that distance of more than 1200 KMs): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Coastal_Highway The infrastructure in NA was better than in Russia, at least in decisive parts.

What is indeed questionable is what size an air unit is representing ingame (or any unit whatsoever). There is undoubtly a form of abstraction used to make the game work, with the development of "Logistics" being one of them and the costs of operating another.


< Message edited by Sugar -- 6/1/2018 9:05:24 AM >

(in reply to YohanTM)
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