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Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a US CVG

 
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Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a US CVG - 4/28/2018 2:54:07 AM   
DarkFib3r


Posts: 53
Joined: 3/4/2012
Status: offline 		Your dive bombers and torpedo bombers are your heavy hitters against the Japanese carrier groups, so having a lot of them available for naval strikes is important. But they are also some of your longer range units in the early years and need to spend some time performing naval search missions. What percentage is a good balance between preserving your offensive power but still maximizing your carrier fleet detecting an enemy fleet, especially when you are deep out to sea?

I am thinking 20% is a good amount, but perhaps there are better choices? Also, should you split the search among the dive bombers and the torpedo bombers, or should you give one aircraft type search duties while the other stays exclusively available for strikes?
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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 9:06:24 AM   
Leandros


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I have come to the approximate same conclusion. The manual also states that there is something to gain by NOT splitting up the units on different type of missions.

Fred

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 3:29:40 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


I have come to the approximate same conclusion. The manual also states that there is something to gain by NOT splitting up the units on different type of missions.

Fred

+1.
Historically the DB squadrons on US Carriers were VS (the search squadron) and VB (the bombing squadron).
In practice I set only the VS squadron on 20% search and it seems to do well.

TBs do ASW between 20 and 40 % depending on how many subs are around. This is early in the game when ship based ASW is weak/inexperienced and US torpedoes are highly unreliable anyway. If a good enemy shipping target has been located and I can move the carriers some distance from stalking subs, I switch the TBs from ASW to naval strike, usually with bombs but torpedoes if enemy BBs or carriers are involved.

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 5:21:40 PM   
AceDuceTrey


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Status: offline 		From what I have read: Early on, US carriers were assigned 78 active aircraft and 12+ spaces (for repair parts). The operational A/C were broken down into 4 squadrons: 27 fighters;18 scout bombers;18 dive bombers; and 15 torpedo bombers. When in search mode for targets, ALL SBs were dispatched on multiple (usually 3), likely search sectors and most fighters rotated on combat air patrols (CAP). When contact was likely, 12 fighters would be readied BELOW deck for escort duty and to keep the flight deck open for A/C on patrol. The DBs and TBs were kept below deck readied or un-readied depending on the likelihood of making contact with the enemy.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 7:15:52 PM   
rustysi


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Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Generally I set DB's/TB's to 10% search. Japan tends to have vessels capable of rather large FP complements. They take care of the search pretty well. In addition I genereally have enough FP's to also take on ASW duties. I tend to split the training of FP's by surface division, one vessel does search, the other ASW. In addition Japan has four CS (scout cruisers) that provide large amounts of FP's for such activities.

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 7:45:38 PM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Generally I set DB's/TB's to 10% search. Japan tends to have vessels capable of rather large FP complements. They take care of the search pretty well. In addition I genereally have enough FP's to also take on ASW duties. I tend to split the training of FP's by surface division, one vessel does search, the other ASW. In addition Japan has four CS (scout cruisers) that provide large amounts of FP's for such activities.


This pretty much for Japan. I have also a few float plane units on CAs trained for ASW. Also when I am in the middle of the Ocean with no sub sightings and also my CV fleet is not detected I use a lower % for ASW. Generally I use(d) Kates for this (2 x 250kg). However I have now read that dive bombers might be also useful for more exact bomb delivery also on subs. At 10k feet they would in theory dive on subs and perhaps score more hits then eg. Kates. Torpedo flyers must be the most trained guys anyway. Not only in torp, but also in bombing and asw. And perhaps even in search. I had normally set Vals to search (10%), but now got some Judys, they seem to worthy to put to search too, also not many are produced at the moment. They also have SR3 means if they fly a lot, many more will be in maintenance or collect airframe fatigue (compared to Val). They deliver a 500kb bomb so their striking power is important.

In theory too the Judy should help with better faster strikes, their speed fits to eg. the M5 Zero much better than all other named types. One could argue that slower Kates in the strike might hinder the package. But torps are important to deliver on bigger ships. However now the DBs pack also a better punch. I could not test this so far, but ofc when all the Hellcats arrive than the better speed of Judy is negated.

Remember float planes might not fly at all in bad weather. And the CS ships are too slow to use in the regular KB anyway. I had relied in part of 21 Rufes on a CS as CAP of a splinter "mini KB". The US attacked and the Rufes would not fly. Lesson learned. Same for search, if you only rely on floats and the weather is bad, you might not detect the enemy at all.


For the US, here indeed I also use and train the "VS" designated units for search.


< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/28/2018 7:57:14 PM >

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 4/28/2018 8:19:18 PM   
crsutton


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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		10%. I don't think I have never spotted an enemy TF at this setting in ten years of play. The other option for late war if you have drop tanks is to also place one unit on long range search at 70-80% if you have plenty of units. One unit on night search is also a very good idea since you will most likely have a higher DL the next day and it will increase your coordination chances. Just my spin on it.

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 5/1/2018 12:37:34 PM   
HansBolter


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From: United States
Status: offline 		I typically set the VS squadron to 30% and the VB squadron to 20%.
Once the upgrade to a single DB squadron per carrier occurs I set it to 30%.

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 5/1/2018 7:35:15 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		It depends.

I range from 0% to 80%. It depends on the task and situation at hand.

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 5/5/2018 4:12:41 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Torpedo flyers must be the most trained guys anyway. Not only in torp, but also in bombing and asw. And perhaps even in search.


Its been my experience that training any group in more than three 'skills' is almost impossible due to the length of time involved. So when it comes to carrier A/C what is their function? To kill other flat tops, obviously. OK, so what needs to be trained? DB's: NavB, Search, and ASW. TB's: NavB, NavT, Search. You could always work on other 'skills' when in port after A/C fatigue has been taken care of, as long as time permits.

quote:

Remember float planes might not fly at all in bad weather.


This statement is 100% true and happens often. It should also be noted that this means you'll be under poor weather conditions and less likely to be spotted. In addition to that in a normal CVTF I'll also still have numerous A/C flying search from my flat decks.

quote:

The other option for late war if you have drop tanks is to also place one unit on long range search at 70-80% if you have plenty of units.


Japan could even do this when the recon version of the Judy is available, late '42. Pretty sure they'll carry drop tanks.

quote:

It depends.

I range from 0% to 80%. It depends on the task and situation at hand.


This should be said at the start of every post of this kind.

My post above was made in relation to combat ops, CV opposition.




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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

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RE: Ideas for Naval Search percentages for DBs/TBs in a... - 5/7/2018 2:40:49 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Alternative plan

Since the max range of the F4F-3 is 7 and that of the F4F-4 is 6 you're setting yourself up for a disasterous loss of bombers if you set the range of both the VS and VB squadrons to more than those ranges at some minimal value (10-30%). Better to set the lower naval bombing squadron at 50-80% search and range 8 and the other squadron at 0% at whatever the max range of your fighters is.

That way you do not end up having all your experienced bomber crew get massacred because they attack the KB/miniKB unescorted. Meanwhile you get the search to a range of 8. The Devastators are useless for search.

(in reply to DarkFib3r)
Post #: 11
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