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Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 2:43:52 AM   
Joneleth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/1/2018
Status: offline 		As far as I can tell about refit is that

1. Units without refit will only replace up to 60/80 of TOE
2. Units without refit will get replacements after those with refit.

I cant find anything bad associated with being in refit mode, so assuming i dont have specific units I quickly want to prioritize, is there any reason i wouldnt place all units in permanent refit mode so they will go to 100% TOE?
Post #: 1
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 3:30:23 AM   
elloboloco


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/7/2015
From: Sou Cal
Status: offline 		Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.

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(in reply to Joneleth)
Post #: 2
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 3:33:23 AM   
Joneleth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/1/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elloboloco

Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.


But the manual states that units not in refit will only replace up to 60% for soviet side, and 80% for german side after 1941, is the manual wrong then?

(in reply to elloboloco)
Post #: 3
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 3:35:52 AM   
elloboloco


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/7/2015
From: Sou Cal
Status: offline 		You may get a better understanding of how the replacement phase works by reading the 'event log' under the 'Info Screen Tab.'

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Post #: 4
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 3:38:32 AM   
elloboloco


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/7/2015
From: Sou Cal
Status: offline 		Well, units will replace all the way to 100 percent, as long as the right kind of equipment is available, but may take more than one turn. You will have to balance the rate of replacement against the needs of the situation. Once a unit is over 90 percent, certainly by 95 percent, send it to battle!

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Big AL

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Post #: 5
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 3:40:20 AM   
elloboloco


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/7/2015
From: Sou Cal
Status: offline 		I routinely see units not in refit mode built up to 100% or more! It depends on if they are in contact with the enemy and how much activity they are undertaking.

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Post #: 6
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 4:03:56 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joneleth


quote:

ORIGINAL: elloboloco

Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.


But the manual states that units not in refit will only replace up to 60% for soviet side, and 80% for german side after 1941, is the manual wrong then?


Refit does improve Morale quicker but not training ie experience. Each turn a units experience will increase by about 3 points until it reaches a value of 50% of the national Morale, after that it is 1 point per turn


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(in reply to Joneleth)
Post #: 7
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 4:48:27 AM   
Joneleth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/1/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elloboloco

Well, units will replace all the way to 100 percent, as long as the right kind of equipment is available, but may take more than one turn. You will have to balance the rate of replacement against the needs of the situation. Once a unit is over 90 percent, certainly by 95 percent, send it to battle!


Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.

(in reply to elloboloco)
Post #: 8
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 9:05:56 AM   
tyronec


Posts: 4940
Joined: 8/7/2015
From: Portaferry, N. Ireland
Status: offline
quote:

Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.

This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.

(in reply to Joneleth)
Post #: 9
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 1:22:02 PM   
AFV


Posts: 435
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		Regardless of what you set your units at, you only have so many resources. Use refit to prioritize where you want your replacements to go. Setting them all to refit is not much different than setting none of them to refit.

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 10
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 2:08:11 PM   
Joneleth

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 5/1/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.

This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.



where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?

(in reply to tyronec)
Post #: 11
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 2:15:30 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo
where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?


Click where the red arrow points to





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/1/2018 2:16:53 PM >

(in reply to Joneleth)
Post #: 12
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 4:56:50 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		Also, I believe units in refit mode are nerfed in combat, so don't put them where the enemy can get at them.

Ten hexes from the front is nice, but remember that you have to spend vehicles and fatigue to get them back there, and again back up to the front. It might be better to have them in rear-area positions, out of the way of the enemy, but not too far in case you need them.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 13
RE: Question about Refit - 5/1/2018 4:58:17 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joneleth


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.

This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.



where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?

There's also a patch archive in the stickied section of the main forum here.

(in reply to Joneleth)
Post #: 14
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 1:32:09 AM   
Aufklaerungs

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 6/4/2009
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

Also, I believe units in refit mode are nerfed in combat, so don't put them where the enemy can get at them.


Amen. Try not to learn this the hard way. Make sure your units likely to come into contact with the enemy are set to READY.

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Aufklärungs

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Post #: 15
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 2:17:14 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline 		If a unit is in RESERVE mode, and the enemy comes adjacent, I think it automatically goes to READY. Or fights as normal, anyway. Correct?

(in reply to Aufklaerungs)
Post #: 16
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 4:30:59 AM   
AFV


Posts: 435
Joined: 12/24/2011
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		I don't see in the manual that refit causes combat power to be nerfed. Where was this found?

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 17
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 6:17:27 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AFV

I don't see in the manual that refit causes combat power to be nerfed. Where was this found?

Sad experience. Somewhere in the patch notes.

(in reply to AFV)
Post #: 18
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 6:56:11 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I thought the penalty for units in refit mode was fortification building, not combat. But i maybe wrong of course.
(Same for units in reserve mode).

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 19
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 10:40:42 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
If a unit is in RESERVE mode, and the enemy comes adjacent, I think it automatically goes to READY. Or fights as normal, anyway. Correct?


Formally is correct. I recently found out that fortification building occurs in your enemy's logistics phase, not your own. So leaving forward units on reserve could mean they have a lower fortification level in your opponents action phase and so could be worse off in combat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
I thought the penalty for units in refit mode was fortification building, not combat. But i maybe wrong of course.
(Same for units in reserve mode).


The developers have confirmed this a while ago, but again I am not convinced they were considering the indirect effects. There was an argument too that units left on refit next to enemy units during logistics would lead to greater attrition. I remember someone posting a test of this although a long time ago. At least it has left me with enough doubts to avoid putting anything that is or could be in contact with the enemy in logistics to be on refit.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 20
RE: Question about Refit - 5/3/2018 8:15:27 PM   
Aufklaerungs

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 6/4/2009
From: Chicago
Status: offline
quote:

If a unit is in RESERVE mode, and the enemy comes adjacent, I think it automatically goes to READY. Or fights as normal, anyway. Correct?


Reserve-set units adjacent to friendly units attacking or defending in a battle hex have a good chance of "activating" to add their CV to the total of engaged Friendlies (defending or attacking). They do not have to be adjacent to the Battle hex./enemy units.

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Post #: 21
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