Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: verdugo94

Hello guys,

thanks for answering, I have been doing a more extensive research and most of the Base Forces with 12cm cannons arrive in 1944, are these the ones you are refering to?

Apart from them, another base with that kind of cannons that is mobile is 51st Base Force, the rest are on static, same with CD units.

Do you know if there is someone more that I cant find?

EDIT: I might been confused or searching wrongly but I can find none CD unit that I can load on a ship except the one in Wake, because their load cost is static.

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I think the ones that combine from the 22nd Port Unit, 23rd Port Unit, etc.,

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16 x 8cm T88 DP guns. These will fire

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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16 x 8cm T88 DP guns. These will fire

There's a minimum range limit that is required for a 'CD gun' to engage a bombarding fleet. That being so most 8cm guns will not do so. IIRC there's only one type of Japanese 8cm that has the range (don't recall which it is, nor do I recall the range). Also note that many weapons will engage transports off-loading and invasion force, to include 75mm mtn guns and AAA weapons.

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Where did that "minimum range limit" come from? Never heard of it.

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Anyway, the main reason for CD guns is to not spook bombardments (I'd prefer them be silent when BBs are coming) but to guard mines and shred amphibious invasions

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ORIGINAL: GetAssista

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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16 x 8cm T88 DP guns. These will fire

There's a minimum range limit that is required for a 'CD gun' to engage a bombarding fleet. That being so most 8cm guns will not do so. IIRC there's only one type of Japanese 8cm that has the range (don't recall which it is, nor do I recall the range). Also note that many weapons will engage transports off-loading and invasion force, to include 75mm mtn guns and AAA weapons.

Where did that "minimum range limit" come from? Never heard of it. Bombardment can happen from different distances depending on settings.
Anyway, the main reason for CD guns is to not spook bombardments (I'd prefer them be silent when BBs are coming) but to guard mines and shred amphibious invasions

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For artillery to Bombard needs to have at least 3 range and 5 soft damage(1), Coast defense guns and DP with less than 15Kyds may not fire

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

This thread is starting to develop some urban myths regarding shore bombardment.

For a post regarding shore bombardment in context, see post #2810 in Lowpe's current AAR.

Basically, setting a minimum range for a bombardment TF does not mean the TF will stand off at that range and bombard.  A bombardment TF will run in to 15k or 30k yards from the shore to deliver a night or day bombardment respectively.  This is hard coded and not set by the player's selection regarding "minimum range".  The point of setting the range is to limit which ship guns will participate in the bombardment. It is a way to conserve the AA ammo for use against enemy aircraft instead of it being wasted on firing at the shore installation.  

Alfred

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

This thread is starting to develop some urban myths regarding shore bombardment.

For a post regarding shore bombardment in context, see post #2810 in Lowpe's current AAR.

Basically, setting a minimum range for a bombardment TF does not mean the TF will stand off at that range and bombard.  A bombardment TF will run in to 15k or 30k yards from the shore to deliver a night or day bombardment respectively.  This is hard coded and not set by the player's selection regarding "minimum range".  The point of setting the range is to limit which ship guns will participate in the bombardment. It is a way to conserve the AA ammo for use against enemy aircraft instead of it being wasted on firing at the shore installation.  

Alfred

I understand what you are saying but have had ships run in much closer than 15K yards- in fact as close as 4K. They did start out in that 15K plus zone before moving in as they bombarded.

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

This thread is starting to develop some urban myths regarding shore bombardment.

For a post regarding shore bombardment in context, see post #2810 in Lowpe's current AAR.

Basically, setting a minimum range for a bombardment TF does not mean the TF will stand off at that range and bombard.  A bombardment TF will run in to 15k or 30k yards from the shore to deliver a night or day bombardment respectively.  This is hard coded and not set by the player's selection regarding "minimum range".  The point of setting the range is to limit which ship guns will participate in the bombardment. It is a way to conserve the AA ammo for use against enemy aircraft instead of it being wasted on firing at the shore installation.  

Alfred

I understand what you are saying but have had ships run in much closer than 15K yards- in fact as close as 4K. They did start out in that 15K plus zone before moving in as they bombarded.

The urban myth I am referring to is the idea that it is possible to make a Bombardment TF totally immune from shore battery fire. That is simply not possible as it is hard coded that the TF will approach as close as 15k for night and 30k for day bombardments.

If the player opts to have "Escorts Bombard" or to have a minimum range set which is less than 15k/30k then the Bombardment TF will come even closer to shore in order to get within range for the use of the escorts guns and those other non escort ship guns whose range is less than 15k/30k.

Set a minimum range of 25k on a night bombardment will still see the TF move to 15k of the shore. Only the main guns will fire as the range of the secondary DP 5" guns is less than 25k. At this range of 15k, most shore CD guns will have the range to fire on the TF.

Alfred

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ORIGINAL: Dili

I have this quote i don't know where i got it.

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For artillery to Bombard needs to have at least 3 range and 5 soft damage(1), Coast defense guns and DP with less than 15Kyds may not fire

(1) this is for land combat.

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The urban myth I am referring to is the idea that it is possible to make a Bombardment TF totally immune from shore battery fire.

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ORIGINAL: Alfred
The urban myth I am referring to is the idea that it is possible to make a Bombardment TF totally immune from shore battery fire. That is simply not possible as it is hard coded that the TF will approach as close as 15k for night and 30k for day bombardments.

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A great disadvantage of this type of construction was that the gun could only be relined by completely boring out the inner A tube. This was so expensive a process that it was considered to be more practical to simply replace a worn out gun with a new one, although it does not appear that either battleship was ever regunned during the war. This may be seen as a reflection of the brief combat life of these ships.

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With some degree of certainty you can bombard with near impunity. In my experience this happens on higher distance settings for BTFs, like 25+, heavier ships and "no escorts bombard" setting.

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For example in one of my AI games I bombarded San Francisco with BB TF for several months

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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With some degree of certainty you can bombard with near impunity. In my experience this happens on higher distance settings for BTFs, like 25+, heavier ships and "no escorts bombard" setting.

I've only tried something like this a couple of times in my AI games. Once at Bataan and once at Singers. Wanted to see what would happen... It was not good. In both cases my TF was totally trashed. I mean scrap IIRC. I don't know maybe I did something wrong.

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For example in one of my AI games I bombarded San Francisco with BB TF for several months

Not on my watch. Try that against a real opponent...

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When I got to 18 the Japanese were still shooting sporadically but never scored any hits.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

There are a confusing number of units that have CD guns for the Japanese. It can be confusing.

The most easy to find are the large numbered base force units. 1st Base Force for example, that come with 8 x 12cm 10YT DP and 16 x 8cm T88 DP guns. These will fire and do some decent damage to an ill-prepared invasion. If I remember correctly the DP guns come as an upgrade, or maybe just for some of the base forces. They're also a good addition to AA defences, these DPs being some of the better Japanese AA gun types.

The better units are all of different types and make-ups, and as Loka and others have said, often need to be combined. The Wake CD gun unit is the most obvious, and arrives intact.

They are:

Wake CD gun Bn - This one gets 20cm and 15cm CD guns plus 12cm CD and DP guns and some 8cm DP guns.

Kure 7th SNLF - a Naval Infantry unit - 8 x 12cm 10YT DP and 16 x 8cm T88 DP guns

Combined 8th SNLF - a CD gun unit. This one gets 14cm CD plus 12cm CD guns, 12cm DP and some 8cm DP guns when combining two units (a port unit and an SNLF).

3rd Special Base Force - an Engineer unit (Base Force) This one gets 20cm and 14cm CD guns plus 12.7cm DP and some 8cm DP guns in an upgrade.

31st Special Base Force - an Engineer unit (Base Force) This one gets 15cm CD guns plus 12.7cm DP, 12cm DP and some 8cm DP guns in an upgrade.

(These two are the only Special Base Force to get this CD gun addition. All others only get 4 x 8cm DP guns only).


There are a few other smaller mobile units, including some Naval Guards that arrive late on small islands around Japan and have 6 x 8cm DP guns.

Being different unit types the may behave slightly differently in certain situations, like reacting to and firing on a bombardment TF or firing at passing ships. I think only the CD gun types will fire in a strait at passing ships, but may be wrong on that.

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ORIGINAL: GetAssista

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ORIGINAL: Alfred
The urban myth I am referring to is the idea that it is possible to make a Bombardment TF totally immune from shore battery fire. That is simply not possible as it is hard coded that the TF will approach as close as 15k for night and 30k for day bombardments.

With some degree of certainty you can bombard with near impunity. In my experience this happens on higher distance settings for BTFs, like 25+, heavier ships and "no escorts bombard" setting.

For example in one of my AI games I bombarded San Francisco with BB TF for several months night in night out while reducing a pile of defenders it had. Had forts and numerous other CD units that respawned there after being destroyed around the world open fire a couple times only. In general CD units seem to be unreasonably shy with responding to bombardments. Used that setup effectively for other CD infested sites like Pearl too.