RE: T18: Mud

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: T18: Mud

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: T18: Mud

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: T18: Mud - 11/28/2018 10:38:58 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

Aye I really wasn't expecting it. Kudos to Bitburgerdraft for pulling it off though. Fantastic move. And yes, it will not happen again!

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465
WitE 2 Tester and Test Coordinator

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 181

RE: T18: Mud - 11/28/2018 11:10:07 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Aye I really wasn't expecting it. Kudos to Bitburgerdraft for pulling it off though. Fantastic move. And yes, it will not happen again!

Hard lesson. Hope you are able to save the units that were surrounded.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 182

RE: T18: Mud - 11/28/2018 11:20:34 PM

timmyab

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

Yeah lesson learnt.
On the plus side your new found caution may prevent a much greater disaster which can result from pushing too hard for Moscow in the snow turns.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 183

RE: T18: Mud - 11/28/2018 11:47:34 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

@HLYA: I hope so. I'm not so sure about the 2 divisions of the 2nd Army. But don't intend to just let them rot.
@timmyab: Yeah indeed. Even though I was very frustrated when I opened the turn I rationalized that I learned a good lesson. If this hadn't happened I would have gone for Moscow in my foolishness and maybe there wouldn't be an Army Group Ceneter come 1942.

_____________________________

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 184

RE: T18: Mud - 11/28/2018 11:56:27 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

To the Axis players that are about to embark on a GC against another human Soviet I'm sharing with you the lessons I learned from this mistake in the hopes that you guys avoid them. Here they are:

1) Consider T16 as the last week of offensive operations save for local encirclments. Use T17 to reorganize your forces. I got too greedy and instead of bringing order to my OOB and straightening my front I kept advancing. The result was that I have no reserves available for what has happened and all of my armor is where it shouldn't be. Both movement and supply during mud are terrible!

2) Make sure you have a continuous front with no gaps between your units. Otherwise the Soviet player will use the last turn of clear weather to move units forward which you cannot dislodge once mud hits as your CVs go down the drainer.

3) Pull back units that are high morale from areas that you know will go into isolated status for the first/second mud turn. This way you will avoid morale loss and maintain their fighting capabilities. Also pull attached support units from divisions that will be located in a sector that will get isolated status in the mud turn.

I hope this helps. It would have helped me tons had I known that before, but live and learn!

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 185

RE: T18: Mud - 11/30/2018 5:30:42 PM

mouse707

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline

You've been swallowed by the deepness of Russia :-)

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 186

RE: T18: Mud - 12/3/2018 9:39:31 PM

John B.

Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Again I'm really enjoying your AAR. I can't say it looks too out of whack given that historically the Germans took Rostov and probably could have taken Leningrad but were denied Moscow. And, it looks like the Soviets are full of fight so it should make for an interesting winter and summer 1942 campaign. But, you've done a very nice job thus far!

(in reply to mouse707)

Post #: 187

RE: T18: Mud - 12/4/2018 4:01:55 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Again I'm really enjoying your AAR. I can't say it looks too out of whack given that historically the Germans took Rostov and probably could have taken Leningrad but were denied Moscow. And, it looks like the Soviets are full of fight so it should make for an interesting winter and summer 1942 campaign. But, you've done a very nice job thus far!

Thanks for the kind words John. The Soviets are fighting bitterly and causing quite a headache for the Germans. No doubt, the winter will be bloody.

_____________________________

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 188

RE: T18: Mud - 12/4/2018 5:47:36 PM

mouse707

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline

Yes, very interesting AAR, and this last move avoids a little bit the game over that was on the way

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 189

RE: T18: Mud - 12/5/2018 9:51:48 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

Thanks mouse, but I don't think the game would be over even if the Soviet mud offensive had not taken place.

_____________________________

(in reply to mouse707)

Post #: 190

T19 Mud - 12/5/2018 9:55:22 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

T19, 23rd of October-30th of October 1941.
AGN

Many Finnish formations have been pulled off the line this week. Other formations take their place as planned. A Soviet tank brigade has crossed the Svir in the far north. Attempts by the Finnish forces (who are cut off from supplies) to push them back have failed.

The front in the AGN sector is stable except for a breach in the Demyansk area where the Soviets keep pushing units forward. The 291st Infantry Division has been dispatched to deal with the situation.

Circled in black are attacks that failed.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 191

RE: T19 Mud - 12/5/2018 10:04:19 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

AGC

The Soviet attempt to destroy the encircled 162nd Infantry Division has failed. The division still holds on and has been resupplied by air during this week.

North west of Rzhev, the 8th Panzer Division has pushed back 2 Soviet Tank Brigades (routing one of them in the process). 2 Panzer Corps have been pulled out of the Klin Salient and other armored formations are soon to follow suit. We are supposed to slowly give ground here but to maintain enough forces that the Soviets are unsure whether we will continue the offensive on Moscow.

In the Tula sector Soviet Cavalry Divisions almost succedeed in encircling the whole 4th Army and elements of the 2nd Panzer Group. Powerful counterattacks by our forces have routed 1 Rifle and 1 Cavalry Divisions reoppening a wide enough corridor for supplies to flow in. The 4th Army is dispatching troops south to cover the faltering 2nd Army sector. The XXXIX Panzer Corps is also pushing east, looking to make contact with the enemy and put a check to their advance.

The 2nd Army infantry divisions trapped behind enemy lines have been resupplied by air.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 192

RE: T19 Mud - 12/5/2018 10:28:59 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

AGS

The situation in the South remains bleak as the railheads are moving east at a very slow pace. 6th Army formations at Voronezh remain cut off from supply, but breakthrough orders have been given. Attacks in the Voronezh area however fail, meaning that 3 more infantry divisions will be encircled by the Soviets, adding more headaches for us.

Further south our units, have abandoned their positions on the Don, in order to secure their flanks. 1 Italian Infantry Division has been dispatched to their help. Other units are on their way.

Before:

After:

In the Rostov area a powerful counterattack has pushed back one of our regiments, while another Soviet counterattack attempting to reestablish connection to Rostov has failed. Our units continue to pull back in order for supplies to get to them.

The rear area security in the sector of AGS is also in a terrible state. Many cities have been striped of their security garrisons due to immediate need for troops and only small detachments of MP units are operating in these areas. Intelligence reports an increasing number of partisan formations forming, something that will most likely cause us headaches once winter arrives.

Crimea

In the Crimea the supply situation remains terrible, however we have manged to pull back a substantial amount of units. FBD 2 operating in the Tula region is expected to arrive next week and begin the immediate repair of rail lines.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 193

RE: T19 Mud - 12/5/2018 10:30:32 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

Losses (since last turn):
Ground:

Air:

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 194

RE: T19 Mud - 12/6/2018 1:21:49 AM

John B.

Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline

Wow, those are some heavy German losses! I've never played this game (since I appear to have sold my soul to WiTPAE) so forgive the question but how long can those divisions which are trapped hold out with air resupply?

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 195

RE: T19 Mud - 12/6/2018 1:07:36 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

Hey John, the losses are mounting up as a result of the attrition that isolated units take. The units will hold out at least until snow as both sides lack the attacking CV to push any unit that has a defensive value of 3 or higher. It is a messed up situation for the Germans, and one that I wasn't expecting to happen, but things are looking better now that reinforcements are on the way.

_____________________________

(in reply to John B.)

Post #: 196

RE: T19 Mud - 12/7/2018 9:18:25 AM

EwaldvonKleist

Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

The units will hold out at least until snow as both sides lack the attacking CV to push any unit that has a defensive value of 3 or higher.

I would not count on it and expect to lose 1-3 divisions, assuming the Soviet side works for it.
The problem is that with lack of supplies and isolation, an increasing amount of elements become damaged, reducing the CV. The degradation only accelerates as fatigue rises.
The Soviets speed up the process by bombing and low odds attacks (if the can't muster sufficient CV for the last strike yet).

The isloation due to mud surely creates a challenging situation in the winter:
-units only have the snow to build a blizzard line
-will likely be less supplied and more fatigued/damaged than usual
-the isolation hits morale even before the blizzard morale reduction. 4 turns of isolation=-10% CV from morale loss alone before all other effects!

On the other hand, maybe you can mount a counterattack in the snow...
It continues to be a very fine in-detail AAR and a tense match!
Regards
EvK

_____________________________

The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
Do you want total war? Guide for WitE players

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 197

RE: T19 Mud - 12/8/2018 2:48:59 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

I know that the isolation is taking a heavy toll on my troops. KIAs are off the roof and the general situation is bleak. With that being said, these formations are being resupplied by air every turn and the Soviets don't have the CV to destroy them during the mud. The first turn of snow will be the trickiest, freeing the trapped divisions and launching the counterattacks.

Yes I do really dread the state of the Wehrmacht right now. All of this could have been prevented had it not been for my rookie mistake but dwelling on it doesn't do me any favors. I am hoping to reduce the Leningrad pocket as soon as possible so the 18th Army can redeploy and free other formations to strengthen the frontline in front of Moscow.

I appreciate the comment, stay tuned for more!

_____________________________

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 198

T20 Mud - 12/10/2018 7:14:04 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

T20, 30th of October-6th of November 1941
AGN

Nothing new can be reported from AGN. No units are isolated and the enemy has not made any advances. Leningrad has been successfully supplied by air even though our fighters are running constant air patrols. One Infantry Division has been sent to AGC.

AGC

In the Center the enemy continues air attacks on our armored formations. Additional AA Battalions have been dispatched to assist our ground forces repel these air raids. Two strong attacks on our forward units have been repelled. The Soviets have taken heavy losses.

In the Klin salient our armored formations continue to pull back, the terrible traffic congestion, mud and enemy air attacks are not making it easy for them. Our most forward infantry formations also give ground steadily. The isolated 162nd ID is resupplied by air successfully. In front of Moscow 2 Regiments of the 7th ID attack and rout a weak Soviet Cavalry Division.

The real show however takes place further to the south in the Tula sector. Here, powerful attack by 3 of our divisions manage to punch a hole through the weak Soviet defenses, rescuing the isolated 52nd ID in the process. Arriving new units have established what resembles a front line of sorts in front of Orel.

AGS

More infantry divisions are moving south looking to rescue the units trapped around Voronezh. All Infantry Divisions in this sector have been resupplied by air. The enemy has almost managed to surround the remaining units of the 6th Army but has fallen short in doing so. Our troops have been ordered to evacuate the salient ASAP. Hungarian formations and one Italian Division are hoping to keep the gap open long enough for our troops to evacuate. The 3 Divisions located near Voronezh have begun the retreat through enemy rear areas, hoping to reach our units soon.

Further south the enemy has thrown cavalry formations forward exploiting the empty space in front of them. Reserves are on their way to the front and they are badly needed in order to stop the Soviet advance.

In the Rostov sector the enemy has conducted air raids on the forces defending the pockets perimeter. We have begun the process of moving the panzer divisions west of the Don. Formations are being shuffled around as the 17th Army prepares to assault Rostov as soon as the weather clears, while the remaining formations of the 6th and 17th Army move north, preparing for a counterattack. TOEs in the south are suffering a lot and the supply situation is a catastrophe.

Crimea

In the Crimea our troops continue pulling back. FBD 2 has not yet arrived and is not scheduled to arrive until T22. The situation here is critical.

Losses

Losses are really heavy especially irrecoverable losses (KIA).

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 199

T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/16/2018 3:13:17 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

T21, 6th of November-13th of November 1941.
AGN

Our troops in the north are preparing for the major clean up operation of the Leningrad pocket. 13 Infantry Divisions (4 Corps) will take part in the operation. The fall of northern Leningrad would eventually convince the Finnish government to fully commit to the war effort against the Soviets. The sooner the operation is concluded the faster can our units redeploy to other front sectors. To hinder Soviet efforts at resupplying the pocket by air, Luftflotte 1 undertook a major operation against Soviet airfields in the sector, destroying 50 fighters and 10 bombers and damaging many more airframes during the raids.

AGC

In the 9th Army sector, the 162nd ID was attacked again by the Soviets, in an attempt to destroy the surrounded division. Their assault has failed and the enemy has taken heavy casualties. The attrition from isolation and the battle are taking their toll on the unit. Its TOE is at 58% and it needs to be bailed out of the pocket as soon as possible. Further to the north our units have retreated west of the Moscow-Volga Canal as part of the general withdrawal in the area. The Soviets have also pulled back from the salient north of Volokolamsk.

In the 4th Army sector the enemy has also pulled back from their forward positions both in front of Moscow and from the Oka. We have pulled back from the bridgehead over the Oka located north of Ryazan. The 4th Army continues its attempts to free the trapped 15th ID. Our troops have managed to force a gap in the Soviet defenses. This puts them only 20 miles away from the trapped division which had to endure another Soviet assault last week. The division held but the losses are mounting.

A similar story has unfolded further south where the 34th ID barely managed to hold back a Soviet assault taking heavy losses in the process.

The 4th Panzer Groups is in position to rescue the 34th ID and the 3 divisions trapped in the Voronezh sector, who are moving west as we speak trying to reach our lines. Most of the Soviet formations screening our trapped troops are very weak formations.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 200

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/16/2018 4:43:40 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

AGS

In the Voronezh sector Soviet Cavalry divisions have crossed the Oskol river and trapped the Hungarian Cavalry Brigade that was sent to help the trapped 6th Army units. An equivalent of 5 divisions are trapped in the pocket right now and they are the most vulnerable of all isolated units to a Soviet attack. Reserves are moving towards the pocket but their advance is slow because of the terrible road conditions. Our units are pulling back, attempting to form a coherent perimeter to prevent further Soviet breaches. The 2 Infantry divisions trapped further south have received orders to hold their ground until relief forces are close to them.

In the Rostov sector the 11th Panzer Division has pulled back north of the Don and the 257th ID has done the same, abandoning Manych to the enemy. 6 Infantry Divisions from the 17th Army are preparing to assault Rostov next turn. The fall of the city would finally allow us to pull back our forces that are located south of the Don river. No immediate relief to the trapped 6th Army forces can be provided by the armored formations of the 1st Panzer Group. Despite a HQ Build Up last turn for the III Panzer Corps, its units had very low MPs this week (in the 4 range), and are not available for operations. The units south of the Don have been resupplied by air.

Crimea

In the Crimea troops are rolling in again, moving towards the front to retake their old positions. The V Rumanian Corps is being pulled back and will be transferred to the Voroshilovgrad sector.

Losses
Ground

Losses continue to be high due to the large amount of units trapped behind enemy lines.

Air

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 201

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/16/2018 5:43:55 PM

SparkleyTits

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline

How are your truck levels doing after the mud shenanigans bud?

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 202

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/16/2018 5:47:39 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

They aren't looking good at all.
142k trucks in the pool but 154k are needed. 71k trucks are in repair.

_____________________________

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 203

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/16/2018 6:11:14 PM

SparkleyTits

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline

Ouch this was a good move by the Soviets, your troops are going to be exhausted and your fort lines very thin in areas as you try to rescue everything

You might need some panzers out for winter, SS and 10th panzer would be your best candidates
If you try breaking them down into regis and mix them with infantry regis then even with low CV and the panzers on 20% toe they will cause huge losses on Soviets in the thousands to budge
That should help out attrition to slow down a Soviet push once they grind themselve down relatively quickly and hopefully help you stabilise your lines quicker
Although keep in mind that it might be a risk of your trucks getting even lower if it doesn't pay off quickly and you need to retreat consistently throughout winter
Trying to reserve as many heavy airframes as you can possibly live without will help your trucks a bit

It could well be a hard fought winter you have coming up if Bittburger plays this well, let's hope you can get away without anything critical coming to pass bud
Good luck

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 204

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/18/2018 9:47:53 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

Thanks for the tips ST. I think I will manage, without putting my armor out there. Once the Leningrad pocket falls, I will redistribute 13 infantry divisions that are being held up in the north. Quick question: do you know how many cav squads the Soviets have a limit on producing? I know there is a limit but have no clue if its 2000 or 20

Well it will be a nice read no doubt!

_____________________________

(in reply to SparkleyTits)

Post #: 205

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/18/2018 10:08:35 PM

chaos45

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline

think its 200 cav squads per turn if I remember right is the limit

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 206

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/19/2018 10:24:48 AM

mouse707

Posts: 57
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline

How much of the soviet industry have you destroyed approximately during Barbarossa ?

(in reply to chaos45)

Post #: 207

RE: T21, Last turn of Mud - 12/21/2018 6:37:29 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

@chaos45: thanks for the info :D
@mouse707: 30 HI, 95 ARM and around 1350 manpower centers are under Axis control. I didn't keep accurate tabs though so those numbers may fluctuate by +/- 5.

_____________________________

(in reply to mouse707)

Post #: 208

T22, Riposte - 12/21/2018 9:47:58 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

T22, 13th of November-20th of November 1941.
Overview.

Temperatures all along the front have fallen under 0 grad celsius and the ground has frozen allowing us to restart offensive and rescue operations. All operations undertaken during this week have been conducted with the knowledge that our truck pool is in a poor condition and cannot sustain long drawn operations and our armored formations need to be pulled back ASAP before the winter sets in properly. Another very important point is the building of fortifications all along the front, in order for our troops to have a fighting chance when the weather turns.

A Soviet Air offensive was thwarted last week with heavy Soviet losses. We lost 44 fighters in the defensive operation.

AGN

Army Group North begun its final push for Leningrad this week. 13 Infantry divisions allocated for the complete destruction of the pocket were thrown in action supported by numerous artillery and engineer formations and by the powerful Luftflotte 1. The progress has been impressive. Our units have crossed the Narva in strength, destroyed a high number of Soviet formations and linked up with the Finnish troops. An assault on Leningrad proper has not been conducted yet. We expect to move enough divisions across the Narva next week for the assault to be conducted from the eastern part of the city, thus avoiding fighting over the river.

3 Rifle and 1 Cavalry divisions remain in the pocket as well as 2 Fortified Regions. Further to the north, the Finnish have moved on the Svir line again and are building fortifications. Finnish troops will be moving south soon, thus relieving German formations to be moved elsewhere. To the south, the 16th Army remains in position.

Before:

After:

German troops held back at the ste marked in black.

_____________________________

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 209

RE: T22, Riposte - 12/21/2018 10:28:06 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline

AGC

AGC had 2 objectives this week:
1) Rescue the infantry divisions trapped behind enemy lines and
2) Eliminate the salient of Soviet forces north of Rzhev.
Both objectives have been completed successfully.

The offensive in the Rzhev sector has been in the planning for the last 2 weeks and we were hoping that the enemy would not reinforce the sector where the offensive was planned to fall. As it happens, the Soviets did not reinforce the sector, preferring to put most of their units in position for eliminating the trapped 162nd ID. The division was able to breakthrough to the west, brushing aside the weak Soviet units screening it and meet the relief forces of the 8th Panzer Division before the offensive begun.

The offensive further to the east started with attacks of the XX Corps and other regiments that were present in the sector. Supported by artillery and the VIII Fliegerkorps. Once a 30 mile corridor was opened, the XXXX and the XIV Panzer Corps drove forward closing the pocket, trapping 16 Rifle Divisions, 3 Rifle and 5 Tank Brigades. Intelligence has reported that within the pocket are 4 of the best Rifle Divisions the Soviets have in their OOB (high morale divisions, 56-70 range) and the number of men trapped in the pocket is estimated at 200k which will be a blow for the Soviet OOB. The move will probably force the Soviets to pull back their units located in the Valdai heights giving us access to prime defensive terrain for the winter and allowing us to shorten the front line.
The armored formations have been moved west of the Moscow-Volga Canal and are heading for the rear areas to prepare for wintering.

In the Tula sector, due to Soviet pressure we have abandoned the Oka bridgehead and pulled back 1 panzer Corps to prepare for wintering. Meanwhile the 4th Army has conducted 2 successful rescue operations, reestablishing contact with the 15th and 34th ID. In the process it has routed a number of Soviet units and managed to isolate 1 Rifle Division. To the south, Reinhardts Panzer Corps has successfully rescued the Infantry divisions located north of Voronezh.

Before: