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RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland

 
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RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 3:52:25 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I also want to point out that it does not say "any that survive the dice roll" but any that survive. The ships in Norway survive and hence they are part of any!

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RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 3:58:31 PM   
michaelbaldur


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From: denmark
Status: offline
i know it does not make much sense. but we spend alot of time on this.

there is nothing, anywhere in the rules that say that naval units are rebased from neutral hexes.

and ADG have confirmed this.


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Post #: 32
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 3:59:44 PM   
Orm


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Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Where have they confirmed this?

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 33
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 4:06:53 PM   
michaelbaldur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Where have they confirmed this?


commination with the game programmer

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the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

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Post #: 34
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 5:26:59 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

So you are saying that the example completely ignores to tell us what happens with the ships in Norway?!

I claim that it is pretty clear. If the ships are in Allied controlled hexes they are rolled for, and those that survive are rebased. And if they are not in Allied controlled hexes they are not rolled for and are then rebased.

I don't think the example even postulates there were any German ships in Norway. It's talking about ships in Allied controlled hexes and says they must rebase. It says Norway goes neutral, so it's impossible for ships there to be in Allied controlled hexes and have to rebase for that reason.

It would be a better example if it had stated there were German ships in Norway and said what happened to them, but that is typical of WiF rule book examples and results in falsely extrapolating them into discussions like this one.

MWiF may be programmed one way but the discussion spawned based on playing over the board and using RAW7. It can be one way or it can be the other way. When in doubt roll a die. It's not a game breaker.

When I get into situations like this when playing I say: "OK we've argued for an hour, let's roll a die. 1 to 6 it's my way, 7 to 10 it's yours."

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/17/2018 5:34:06 PM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 5:33:30 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

So you are saying that the example completely ignores to tell us what happens with the ships in Norway?!

I claim that it is pretty clear. If the ships are in Allied controlled hexes they are rolled for, and those that survive are rebased. And if they are not in Allied controlled hexes they are not rolled for and are then rebased.

I don't think the example even postulates there were any German ships in Norway. It's talking about ships in Allied controlled hexes and says they must rebase. It says Norway goes neutral, so it's impossible for ships there to be in Allied controlled hexes and have to rebase for that reason.

It would be a better example if it had stated there were German ships in Norway and said what happened to them, but that is typical of WiF rule book examples and results in falsely extrapolating them into discussions like this one.

MWiF may be programmed one way but the discussion spawned based on playing RAW7. It can be one or it can be other. When in doubt roll a die. It's not a game breaker.

I would suggest that the example tells us what happens to both ships in Germany and in Norway. Otherwise it would be a very poor example.

Anyway. Are you saying that if there were German ships in Norway, they would become Japanese and then remain in Norway until Japan so desire to move them?

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Post #: 36
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 5:34:49 PM   
paulderynck


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Status: offline 		Yes on a roll of 1 to 6.

But as I stated if you read the example, it's impossible for it to be talking about ships in Norway.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/17/2018 5:36:29 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 5:36:07 PM   
Orm


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quote:

It's not a game breaker.

It might not be a game breaker. But I sure would find it frustrating with CW ships in Crete that I can not do anything about without declaring war on Crete.

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Post #: 38
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 5:39:03 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

It's not a game breaker.

It might not be a game breaker. But I sure would find it frustrating with CW ships in Crete that I can not do anything about without declaring war on Crete.

If Crete is neutral (and assuming they don't have to rebase) then once they leave they can't come back and they can't do you much harm sitting in port. if Crete became CW controlled, then you should be able to do something.

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Post #: 39
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 7:58:11 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		If hex control changes, that means that you don't control the hex anymore. Therefore, you have to rebase...

You cannot have warships belonging to a nation at war sitting in a neutral port. Those ships would be subject to the 24 hours rule (like the Graf Spee)...

< Message edited by Centuur -- 6/17/2018 8:00:07 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/17/2018 10:03:53 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Face it. There's nothing in RAW7 that is definitive.

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Post #: 41
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/18/2018 8:59:07 AM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Face it. There's nothing in RAW7 that is definitive.


Or in RAW8, I believe...

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Post #: 42
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/19/2018 5:45:00 PM   
paulderynck


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Joined: 3/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Face it. There's nothing in RAW7 that is definitive.


Or in RAW8, I believe...

Au Contraire.

quote:

Whenever a hex changing control leaves a unit illegally stacked (see 9.2, 13.3.2 US entry options 7, 18 & 44; 3.7.1, 13.7.3, 13.7.5, 17.4.5, 19.5.1 & 20), it (PiF option 46: and its pilot, if any) is removed from the
map and placed on the production circle (see turn record chart) to arrive as a reinforcement (see 4) in 2 turns.




< Message edited by paulderynck -- 6/19/2018 5:46:31 PM >

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Post #: 43
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/20/2018 7:59:42 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		My take on this thread is that there is a bug as reported in the first post in this thread.

===

Unless I am mistaken, the MWIF code handles naval units in hexes that become neutral as having to rebase. The only difference in processing the same units in hexes that become enemy controlled, is that in the former case they do not roll for captured/destroyed/escape, while in the latter case they do.

Whether that is the 'correct' interpretation of the WIFFE rules is open to debate. But I see no compelling reason to rewrite the code.



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Post #: 44
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/20/2018 9:39:57 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		If located there when conquest happens, MWiF's rebase and disorganize (since it happens after the re-org phase) amounts to almost exactly the same as the rule in RAW8.

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Paul

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Post #: 45
RE: Question re US Option Occupy Greenland & Iceland - 6/20/2018 9:44:43 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		About the bug - the US can still declare and occupy them unless the axis still has a unit there, so the axis conquest is ineffectual unless they maintain a garrison.

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Post #: 46
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