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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS

 
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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/20/2019 4:46:34 PM   
John 3rd


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June 8, 1943
Coral Sea Battles

Here is ALL the damage the Allies take.



NONE!

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/20/2019 9:14:36 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


Self-Imposed House Rule: The GEORGE is a big-assed plane. I ruling it out for CVLs and CVEs. This plane can only be used on the Fleet CVs while the JACK can be used on anything.




Just checking in and caught this. After seeing my 1/700 versions I realized this was not actually true, even though the George profile seems bigger. It's dimensions are actually almost exactly those of the A6M2, in fact a bit smaller in length. Both are smaller than the Hurricane, which was on CVEs, and only a tad larger than the Wildcat.

The George also had the most powerful engine by far.

All TBs are huge compared to these little fighters though, and they worked CVEs for all navies during the entire war.
---------------------------------------------


N1K1

Length: 8.885 m (29 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)
Height: 4.06 m (13 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 23.5 m2 (253 sq ft)
Empty weight: 2,897 kg (6,387 lb)
Gross weight: 3,900 kg (8,598 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Nakajima NK9H Homare 21 18-cylinder air-cooled radial piston engine, 1,473 kW (1,975 hp) at sea level


A6M2

Length: 9.06 m (29 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)
Height: 3.05 m (10 ft 0 in)
Wing area: 22.44 m2 (241.5 sq ft)
Empty weight: 1,680 kg (3,704 lb)
Gross weight: 2,796 kg (6,164 lb)

Powerplant: 1 × Nakajima NK1C Sakae-12 14-cylinder air-cooled radial piston engine, 700 kW (940 hp) for take-off

Hurricane

Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft 0 in (12.19 m)
Height: 13 ft 1.5 in (4.001 m)
Empty weight: 5,745 lb (2,606 kg)
Gross weight: 7,670 lb (3,479 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Rolls-Royce Merlin XX V-12 liquid-cooled piston engine, 1,185 hp (884 kW) at 21,000 ft (6,400 m)

Wildcat

Length: 28 ft 9 in (8.8 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft 0 in (11.6 m)
Height: 9 ft 2.5 in (2.8 m)
Empty weight: 5,895 lb (2,674 kg)
Loaded weight: 7,975 lb (3,617 kg)
Powerplant: 1 × Pratt & Whitney R-1830-86 double-row radial engine, 1,200 hp (900 kW)

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/20/2019 9:58:53 PM   
John 3rd


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Thanks Obvert. That makes for some serious thinking. Agree with you that the two Fighters APPEAR to much different size-wise but when laid out like above, NOT SO MUCH. Interesting...


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 12:30:53 AM   
ny59giants


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You need to go against your style and go fighter heavy on your CVs. Pull off DBs and add extra fighters. Especially now when you have M5s vs Hellcats. You need numbers until CV capable Jack or George become available.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 12:48:23 AM   
Bearcat2

 

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N1K1 had longer landing gear struts due to the mid wing position and it's large propeller, the plane didn't fit in the hanger because of the propeller. The N1K2 moved the wing to a low position and had a smaller propeller with a stronger landing gear.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 1:28:16 AM   
RangerJoe


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Just turn them into low-riders.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 5:00:43 AM   
John 3rd


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This is why there is no CV-Capable George until AFTER the K2 comes out. Did some serious research when we shifted gears into the Jack and George option rather than continued Zero variants leading the Sam.

PS--George moved up to May 44 on June 8th.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/21/2019 5:02:33 AM >


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 5:01:48 AM   
John 3rd


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Sean wrote saying that the Sync Bug bit him on the hindquarters. this is what he saw:

CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Chiyoda, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Haguro, Torpedo hits 1
CA Mogami, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BC Haruna, Bomb hits 10, on fire
CA Kumano, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tamanami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CS Poroshiri
DD Kiyonami
DD Hatsuzuki
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2
DD Akizuki
DD Yoizuki
CL Noshiro
DD Mochitsuki, Bomb hits 1
DD Makinami


You guys have seen the actual results that I did a screenshot with.



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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 2:06:16 PM   
John 3rd


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Sean is traveling to Wyoming today for some R&R with his family.

We start school the day after Labor Day so we're flexing in two trips. This weekend we go to Canon City to ride the Royal Gorge train and hit State Fair. My youngest has two qualifiers there (peach-mango pie and pistachio muffins) and we have high hopes since he got Grand Champion with those at Weld County Fair. Will come home and then go up to our new cabin near Craig, CO Labor Day weekend. This will be our first trip up there since buying it a month ago.

Bottom line to all this will be a slowing of the game while both of us are doing things.

I have the current turn and plan to make it a strategic and economic turn. Do these about once every two game months to check on all sorts of things. Tends to be an 8-10 hour commitment to one turn. Stupid and somewhat obsessive but that is that for Japan in mid-43.

Hope to have time to do some serious Posting!


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 2:16:40 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Sean wrote saying that the Sync Bug bit him on the hindquarters. this is what he saw:

CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Chiyoda, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Haguro, Torpedo hits 1
CA Mogami, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BC Haruna, Bomb hits 10, on fire
CA Kumano, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tamanami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CS Poroshiri
DD Kiyonami
DD Hatsuzuki
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2
DD Akizuki
DD Yoizuki
CL Noshiro
DD Mochitsuki, Bomb hits 1
DD Makinami


You guys have seen the actual results that I did a screenshot with.





And a clear indication of what COULD have happened to you.

You should be very thankful for the die rolls you received.

I still consider this to be the most insidious failure of this game design.

Subjecting Allied players to this form of bait and switch is an abomination.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 2:34:27 PM   
Canoerebel


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The sync bug can be very frustrating (as this example illustrates), but it can be absolutely avoided by first viewing the written Combat Report. Moreover, it is a fount of information. The Allied player sometimes learn the location of forces that weren't disclosed in the 001, or that an air attack allowed by weather in the 001 would've turned out horribly if it had actually happened, and a hundred other things. In balance, I find the sync bug to be a modest boon to the Allied player.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 4:16:32 PM   
modrow

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The sync bug can be very frustrating (as this example illustrates), but it can be absolutely avoided by first viewing the written Combat Report. Moreover, it is a fount of information. The Allied player sometimes learn the location of forces that weren't disclosed in the 001, or that an air attack allowed by weather in the 001 would've turned out horribly if it had actually happened, and a hundred other things. In balance, I find the sync bug to be a modest boon to the Allied player.


Aye to all of this but the last sentence, if the written combat report you look at is the one from the game/turn file.

My conclusion is that the effects of the sync bug sort of even out. As you state correctly, the Allied player gains a lot of interesting information, but also loses some, because the replay comprises complementary information to the combat report file, e.g. valuable additional information for naval (much better assessment of damage to enemy ships) and air combat.

Just my 2cts

Hartwig

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/21/2019 7:40:41 PM   
BillBrown


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wrong place.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 8/21/2019 7:41:10 PM >

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/22/2019 12:19:39 AM   
John 3rd


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I have so rarely played the Allies, I am going to ask something stupid. HOW, exactly, does the Sync bug occur and why? Can this be explained in a somewhat understandable manner?

Good discussion by the way gang. Nice, concise commentary Dan.


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/22/2019 12:22:26 AM   
Canoerebel


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The sync bug means that Allied player viewing the movie sees a different turn than actually happened. This is because something in the computer code that was set during the Japanese player's portion of the turn, which dictates certain things, somehow gets changed for the Allied player's viewing. So the Allied player sees a false "movie" (sometimes wildly inaccurate but often pretty close to the actual turn). Going forward, there isn't an issue, because the next-turn file he got from you is "right." The Combat Report itself is always accurate, so if the Allied player scans it first, he knows the 001 movie is out of sync.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/22/2019 12:25:13 AM >

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/22/2019 1:59:03 AM   
John 3rd


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OK. I get all that but what causes this to happen?

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/22/2019 10:52:07 PM   
Bif1961


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Japanese slight of hand?

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 3:54:11 AM   
John 3rd


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June 10, 1943
Coral Sea Battles


Damn. Just damn.

After the bloodbath of the Allied Strike Planes and Japanese Strike Planes falling by the hundreds, the Japanese do something unexpected. They slit their inferior force. The slightly damaged CV--CVL--BC TF moves due east towards Tarawa and gets away without issue. The faster, undamaged carriers (Shokaku, Zuikaku, and 4 CVLs) move--with their STF protection--south to Lunga. The Allies expect a retreat towards Truk and this move surprises them.

A very dangerous plan is formed. It consists of two moves:

1. The six remaining carriers at Lunga swap out planes left-and-right and manage to get near full strength at 220 planes. This Strike Group will move SW away from Lunga a full dys steam to hit targets retiring towards Tagula.

2. At Horn Isle, the 4 CVL and 1 CVE, plus a BB TF, move at regular speed SE to a position about 4-5 hexes from Milne Bay. This TF carries about 140 planes.


With the Allies halfway between Truk and Kavieng, this double lunge should only run into Allied LBA. Risky but worth a try.

DAYLIGHT
The double move catches the Allies totally flatfooted. The CV and STFs that had moved between Truk and Kavieng retire to a position SE of Rabaul. TOO FAR AWAY to help.

The Carriers are in the clear and READY for some ass-whipping. BANZAI!!!

Targets are plentiful.

Eastern Force (near Tagula) strikes and sinks CVE Prince William, Copahee, and Altamaha. Four escorting DMS are hit with two sinking.

Western Force (with only 36 Kates) strike at nearly everything and manage an amazing show for their numbers. These Jills hit:

CVE Long Island (already crippled from earlier) with a TT.
BB Maryland takes 3 TTs
One APA is sunk and another plugged with 2TTs (probably sunk)
BB Washington takes 2 TT
BC Constellation is hit not by ONE, not by TWO, not by THREE, but by FOUR TTs NE of Cooktown.

The CVE are, evidently, replenishment carriers because a HUGE number of planes are destroyed this day.

The Japanese don't lose more then 25-30 planes for this effort and score one heck of a good day versus the Allied Fleet.


BANZAI Baby!




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/23/2019 3:55:01 AM >


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 3:55:58 AM   
John 3rd


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Take a look at the aircraft losses:





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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 3:56:48 AM   
John 3rd


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Orders for the Fleet tomorrow:

Bombard any base possible, try to catch some cripples, and RUN AWAY!


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 3:58:10 AM   
John 3rd


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Once this battle settles, I shall do a synopsis and total losses for both sides.

I hope that Sean move south to come after the TFs because I load up Truk and Hollandia for attacks along the northern and western edge of the Allied trusts...


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 4:20:02 PM   
Canoerebel


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Are you saying, in the portion quoted in bold below, that the Japanese committing suicide is "unexpected"?



quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

June 10, 1943
Coral Sea Battles


Damn. Just damn.

After the bloodbath of the Allied Strike Planes and Japanese Strike Planes falling by the hundreds, the Japanese do something unexpected. They slit their inferior force.….


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/23/2019 4:35:28 PM   
John 3rd


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slit---split

The typo does, however, WORK!


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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 4:40:09 AM   
John 3rd


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June 12, 1943
Coral Sea Battle

This fracas is reaching epic proportions.

WE went down to Royal Gorge this weekend so only a pair of turns have been done.

The attacks continue unabated by both sides. Want to do a serious detailing tomorrow if possible.

Let us simply say that if it is an American CVE, IT---IS---DEAD!

I know that the Americans get like 1,000,000 of these damned things but we are approaching at least ten or more sunk in this massive fight.

Japan has lost its first ships with CL Yubari and a DD going down.

The Allies have lost over 50 ships. Several invasions have been thrown back and several have been successful. Only about two weeks passing will say how serious this is to either side.

We'll do our best to Post DETAILS tomorrow!





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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:24:10 PM   
RangerJoe


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I think that only about 100 CVEs were built during the war and not all of them served in the Pacific Theater of Operations. But also think of the planes lost and the air groups to buy back . . .

Not to mention the slowdown of operations. You know how some people like to use the US CVEs to back up the big boys.

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RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:37:28 PM   
John 3rd


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June 11-12, 1943
The Coral Sea


Once it became obvious that the vast majority of the Allied Fleet was deployed to the Coral Sea, the Japanese shifted into the more 'Confederate' mentality. The enemy's Fleet CVs have too strong of CAP to penetrate head-on so how can we hurt the enemy enough to move him AWAY from the bases that are threatened, lost, or in trouble?

The plan for the 10th was to send in the remaining CVs of the Japanese Eastern TF while coming in from the West with CVLs and a couple of faster CVE. Goal here was to bushwhack the retiring Allied shipping and draw the main American Carrier Force south away from Kavieng, Manus, and Hansa Bay. That plan worked with the Japanese carriers scoring a nice tally in the south of CVE Prince William, Copahee, Altamaha, several DMS and APA, a bunch of PT-Boats, with then damage done to BB Maryland and Washington, another CVE, and BC Constellation.

The plan WORKS as the 11th sees the Americans pull their carriers southwards to deal with the real threat to the rear of their lines.

June 11th

We'll so the damage base-by-base:

Kavieng--Fighters are moved into the Lvl-1 AF from Rabaul to provide direct CAP. The shipping at this base is subjected to multiple attacks from Rabaul and Truk. Even Japanese Emily are brought in as Torpedo Planes! Morning Strikes consist of 50 Jill, 7 Emily, 9 Emily, 7 Nell, 16 Nell, and 15 Emily. Afternoon strikes comprise: 7 Nell, 22 Nell, 11 Emily, and 7 Judy. Ships sunk include AP Matsonia, 4 AK, 3 AP, 1 APA, 1 DMS with torpedoes also striking 4 AP, 3 AK, and several smaller escort ships. Several THOUSAND troops and hundreds of vehicles are killed/destroyed.

Port Moresby--This base is bombarded by BB's Yamato and Musashi. Several planes are destoyed, over 50 are damaged, with 288 Cas, and the Runways take 26 hits.

Lae has 4 Invasion TF unloading at it. This does not look positive.

Manus--Troops taken from the now failed Kavieng Invasion begin landing here. High Landing casualties occur. A naval Guard defends here with 4 engineering units. That isn't much to fight with...

Horn Isle--Five DDs sweep south and destroy yet another 6 PT-Boats.

Hansa Bay
--This juicy target is waiting to be plucked and a strike of 43 TB fly in only to lose their Fighter Escort and be slaughtered by just 18 F4F defending the landing forces. STUPID! Several do get through and put a Torp into CLAA Prince Rupert. An afternoon strike keeps its Zero Escort and 65 Fighters sweep into the anchorage with CVE Tangier taking a pair of TTs.

Namatanai (East of Rabaul)--A Strike of 18 DB sink 2 AK and damage an AP inflicting troop casualties.

A STF of CA Takao and 4 DDs find a set of AOs and pummel DD Caldwell and 2 AOs. NICE!

Total Allied losses for the day: AP-4, AK-6, APA-1, DMS-1, and PT-6. Damage is done to a CVE, CLAA, DD, 2 AO, 6 AP, and 5 AK.

Japanese Losses see that only that terrible strike at Hansa costs Japanese anything important.

Movement
1. The Eastern Japanese CVs move NNE towards Kwajalein and successfully disengage with out issue.
2. DITTO the Western TFs moving back to Horn.
3. The slightly damaged Japanese CVs and slower Junyo-Hiyo make for Kwajalein for fuel, replacement planes, and supply.
4. Order several STF into the fray to strike at Hansa Bay and Namatanai.

Plans
1. CV HIryu and Soryu come out of their upgrades--finally--at Singapore. CV's Akagi and Kaga are just five days past that.
2. We'll see what the enemy does? Will he move back north or stay south? Set the planes at Lunga to a strike range of 8 to see if anything comes eastward.
3. I have THREE Infantry Divisions approaching the area. Enemy's timing SUCKS in that these ID were destined for Wewak, Aitape, and Manus!
4. Move the warships away from Horn so we can join up with other carriers and bring the BBs up to Truk.

June 12th
LOTS of action. There is some give-and-take though this day.

Sea Action
2 DDs heading for Tagula run smack dab into an American BB TF with the modern South Dakota, Georgia (named for Mister Roper's proud state!), and North Carolina. The DDs try to get close but settle for damage to several enemy DDs and they dodge nearly all the enemy's shells. Hey--at least they live to tell about it!

Namatanai--CA Takao and 3 DD slam into a TF sinking several laden AKs and damaging Pres Coolige, 2 AP, 4 AK, and a DM. More troops are killed in the sinkings!

Hansa Bay--3 CA, CL Yubari, and a DD SMASH into an Invasion Force here. These warriors sink an APA, 2 AK, 2 AP, and 2 APD before heading for home (Hollandia).

Major Air Action
1. Sure enough, the enemy moves slightly closer to Lunda and strikes by 18 DB and 7 TB hit CA's Cornwall (2B) and Dorsetshire (1TT), as well as DD Henley (1B).

2. From Rabaul flies a strike into the central Coral Sea. The attack of 75 F and 52 TB blast through a CAP of 15 F4F and plant 6 TT into CVE ELy, 2 TT into CVE Langley, and 2 TT into CA Houston. NICE! Ely sinks during the combat replay.

3. DB from Rabaul hit several AKs and an AP at Namatanai.

4. A Liz Night Strike at Townsville hits BB Colorado and the crippled BC Constellation each with a Bomb.

5. As feared, the Allied CVs move back north and plant themselves between Manus and Hansa Bay. They fly two strikes at the Cruiser TF retiring from Hansa's glorious action. CL Yubari is sunk by 3 TTs and CA Ashigara takes a pair of TTs. Ashigara is OK and can make 18 knots. It will make Hollandia tomorrow. Move a BUNCH of fighters in to set-up a CAP Trap.

6. A strike by SBD sinks DD Ariake in the Coral Sea.

NEW ACTION
Addu Atoll in the IO is assaulted by five Allied Ground Forces in two Invasion TFs. Diego Garcia has a force of 18 Nells and they attack both day and afternoon. Total for the day there is 2 LCI(L) sunk and damage to an AMC. The Shock Attack is at 4-1 dropping Forts to ZERO. Addu will fall next turn.

No Allied aircover means these ships are vulnerable...hmmm...

Summation:
My SS ML drop two minefields blocking off the retirement through the strait west of New Ireland and east of New Guinea. They aren't much but 80 mines in each hex immediately score a pair of mine hits.

THREE Sinking sounds are heard during the damage phases of the turn.

KNOWN Sinkings for the day: CVE Ely, 1 APA, 2 LCI(L), 2 AP, 4 AK, and 2 APD.
Damage done to CVE Langley, CA HOuston, 3 AP, 4 AK, an AMC, and a DM.

Japanese losses are some strike aircraft who attacked the enemy carriers, CL Yubari, and DD Ariake.

The enemy adds an Inf Div to the Manus assault and takes the base. CRAP! Gonna have to deal with that.

Successfully withdraw the Cargo TF, 2 BB TF, and the CVL--CVE TF from Horn.


Pretty wild and confusing fight but those are the last couple of days worth of action. Hope it makes some sense...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/26/2019 2:39:12 PM >


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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 446
RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:38:44 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I think that only about 100 CVEs were built during the war and not all of them served in the Pacific Theater of Operations. But also think of the planes lost and the air groups to buy back . . .

Not to mention the slowdown of operations. You know how some people like to use the US CVEs to back up the big boys.


True. I am CHOPPING them down to size! Right. Yaaaaa...sure...NOT...

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Post #: 447
RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:42:13 PM   
John 3rd


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Here is the Tracker VP chart. Look at the bottom last two turns. Nice Haul in VP!





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 448
RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:42:44 PM   
ny59giants


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The Allies get close to 100 CVEs. About 10 of them go to the Brits. The rest are very important part of "Death Star" as the war goes on. The Hellcats are low CAP to protect against kamikazes coming in at 1000 feet, CAP around 14,000, and escort for strikes while the heavy CVs have the 2nd gen Corsairs for CAP over the fleet. I've just reached Feb '45 and have lost only 4 CVE to date. No larger CV/CVL have been sunk. So the 1000 plus Hellcats do help out.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 449
RE: The Shattered Sword: John 3rd vs. Anachro--BTS - 8/26/2019 2:45:23 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
This fight is beginning to feel like my battle with Dan over Sumatra. Biggest difference here though is that my Fleet is NOT being attrited--YET! In that massive brawl, Dan managed to absolutely cripple my cruiser and DD strength. I won the fight but lost the war right there. Lesson learned. Trying to be more careful...


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