Ich bin ein PT skipper?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Ich bin ein PT skipper?

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Ich bin ein PT skipper? - 6/7/2003 10:54:32 AM

dwesolick

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Please forgive a silly question (which has probably been raised before), but I'm curious. Where is JFK on the PT-109? It seems some imposter named Westholm has taken his place.
My understanding is that Kennedy took command of the 109 in April 43, but the scenario (10, I think) starting in June 43 has Westholm in command of the 109.
Is this an oversight? Or is JFK belowdecks with some intern?;)

BTW, I've been reading a book by Bob Ballard (of deep sea exploration fame) in which he found parts of the 109 in the
Solomons (mainly a torpedo tube...most of the rest of the wreckage scattered with the currents---PTs being made of mostly flimsy stuff).

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- 6/7/2003 11:00:31 AM

Drex

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Good question. He should be included as he was a genuine hero. I had asked this question a long time ago.

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Post #: 2

- 6/7/2003 10:44:42 PM

dwesolick

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This just in from the White House: :p

Attachment (1)

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- 6/7/2003 11:31:40 PM

Drex

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Ha Ha! very good.

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Ich bein ein PT Skipper - 6/8/2003 12:41:46 AM

Navare

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"The first action for PT-109, then commanded by Lt. Rollins E. Westholm, took place on the night of 7-8 December 1942, after reconnaissance planes reported eight Japanese destroyers moving down the "slot.""

http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/p/PT-109.htm

Mystery solved. ;)

Anthony

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Post #: 5

- 6/8/2003 1:40:55 AM

dwesolick

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:confused: "Let me just say this about that:" How does this solve the mystery? Look at the dates (Dec 42 vs Apr 43). No one is disputing that Westholm was in charge before Apr 43 but some UV scenarios begin in Jun 43 and still have the imposter in charge. Maybe the Matrix staff are all Republicans??? ;)

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Post #: 6

Mystery not Solved - 6/8/2003 1:51:10 AM

Navare

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Alright you have me there. Maybe it has something to do with the game programing and the "original" Captain has to be "killed" before a replacement can be named.

Maybe someone can run a test with a ship that survived the enite campaign but had a change of Commanders during the campaign.

There also might have been legal problems involved using his name. IIRC the old game PTO ran into some legal issues using the real names of historic figures so they ended up using fictional names.

Anthony

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Re: Mystery not Solved - 6/8/2003 2:04:04 AM

dwesolick

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Navare
[B]Alright you have me there. Maybe it has something to do with the game programing and the "original" Captain has to be "killed" before a replacement can be named.

There also might have been legal problems involved using his name.

Anthony [/B][/QUOTE]

But some scenarios BEGIN when JFK should have been in charge.

I don't think the Kennedy family would sue....they seem to have enough legal problems as it is. ;)

"Let the word go forth" that we would like someone from Matrix to solve this mystery!

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- 6/8/2003 9:39:29 AM

Snigbert

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I think they wanted to avoid emotional and psychological trauma to those of us from Massachusetts if Cmd J.Kennedy was killed... :)

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Post #: 9

- 6/9/2003 2:31:10 AM

Drex

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Now there's a real "What if". WWII wouldn't have changed, but Goldwater might have been President.

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Post #: 10

- 6/9/2003 2:49:46 AM

pasternakski

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drex
[B]Now there's a real "What if". WWII wouldn't have changed, but Goldwater might have been President. [/B][/QUOTE]

Or Nixon might have been president from 60-68. Or LBJ might have defeated Nixon in 64, depending how his first four years went. Also, without Kennedy letting Vietnam sneak up on us like he did, the whole thing might never have happened (but think of what other conflicts might have arisen).

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- 6/9/2003 3:39:11 AM

dwesolick

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The Cuban Missile Crisis might have turned out very differently (or not happened at all). Had Nixon been elected, the Bay of Pigs might have been a success (it was dreamed up during the late Ike admin) since Nixon probably would have supported it to the hilt. No Castro! Florida might be a bit different too!
Would Nixon have been assassinated in 63???? Henry Cabot Lodge (jr) would have been president! :eek:

(Lodge-Kennedy connection: both were from Mass, JFK defeated Lodge for senate seat in early fifties, 54, I think).

Who would Lodge have chosen for his running mate in '64???? A hero of the Pacific War named......WESTHOLM!!! The circle is complete!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

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Post #: 12

- 6/9/2003 3:50:06 AM

GBirk

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One of my favorite speeches would never have been given:

"But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard . . . "

--JFK at Rice University, September 12, 1962, http://www.rice.edu/fondren/woodson/speech.html.

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JFK speeches - 6/9/2003 4:20:29 AM

dwesolick

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I agree, that is a great speech (I'm from Texas, also).
I also like JFK's address to the country during the Berlin Crisis in 1961:
"I hear it said that West Berlin is militarily untenable. So was Bastogne and so, in fact, was Stalingrad. Any dangerous spot is tenable if men, brave men, will make it so."

Good advice for those UV players facing the "invasion of Noumea!"

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Re: JFK speeches - 6/9/2003 4:47:38 AM

pasternakski

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dwesolick
[B]I agree, that is a great speech (I'm from Texas, also).
I also like JFK's address to the country during the Berlin Crisis in 1961:
"I hear it said that West Berlin is militarily untenable. So was Bastogne and so, in fact, was Stalingrad. Any dangerous spot is tenable if men, brave men, will make it so."

Good advice for those UV players facing the "invasion of Noumea!" [/B][/QUOTE]

Depends on the context. West Berlin was militarily untenable and survived only under a nuclear umbrella and intense diplomatic activity. Bastogne was militarily untenable and survived only because of extraordinary efforts to relieve it and a fortuitous break in the weather. Stalingrad was militarily untenable for the Germans only because the flanks of the supporting army were militarily insufficient. Give the Germans sufficient resources, and Stalingrad would have been untenable for the Soviets.

I am a jelly-filled pastry.

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Put my faith in the people
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So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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- 6/9/2003 6:58:12 AM

dwesolick

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Aaannnnnyyyway :rolleyes: Back to the original question: Why does JFK not appear in the game? Legal reasons? Oversight? Belowdecks with Marilyn? ;) The truth is out there. (WAY out there, probably).

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Post #: 16

- 6/10/2003 4:41:34 AM

jcjordan

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I posted this very question awhile back about JFK not even being in the database at all. I could understand about not being the listed commander of PT109 as he wasn't the original commander but to not even be in the database I had to wonder. Forget Waldo, where's JFK?? :confused:

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Post #: 17

- 6/10/2003 9:43:32 PM

estaban

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Daddy used his political influence to get JFK off the PT-109, because he knows that PTs have about a 90% ultimate casualty rate in UV...

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Post #: 18

- 6/11/2003 2:35:30 AM

Snigbert

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Everyone knows that the whole Kennedy being a Navy veteran was a pure fabrication. You people probably believe we really walked on the moon too.

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Post #: 19

Found this - 6/11/2003 7:19:35 AM

Navare

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I found this in one of the faq's. It is direced at the Pilot Database but the same might be true of the Captain's database.

"With regards to the Black Sheep Squadron, squadron commanders were transferred around a lot, so Rich chose to use the historical commanders effective May 1, 1942. There are over 1500 historical pilots already in the database; of these, there are approximately 470 historical aces with appropriately set experience levels. I have tried to locate the pilots in the proper units at the appropriate time, but sometimes this detail is sketchy, particularly dates of service. It is inevitable that I have missed some pilots. I already have a list of almost every ace that served during WWII, including kills and units they served in. Needless to say, the historical pilot list will be significantly larger in WITP. If you have detail on what periods each ace served in each unit, this info would be useful. (reported by Mark W. Carver)"

Here is the link to the faq file.

http://uncommon-valor.chez.tiscali.fr/faq.htm

Anthony

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Post #: 20