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T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 9:04:50 PM   
beender


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/23/2017
From: Beijing, China
Status: offline 		Here is the pocket from T7. Hopefully I am not giving away too much information (as the attacking side i suppose there is more freedom).

Apparently I had a very perfect plan for encircling what estimated to be one and half Soviet army.







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< Message edited by beender -- 8/5/2018 9:05:42 PM >

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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 9:08:02 PM   
beender


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/23/2017
From: Beijing, China
Status: offline 		Plans were perfectly executed and a nice pocket was perfectly made. No MPs wasted and just enough panzers were employed. Such a pocket is obviously impossible to break.

Or so I thought




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< Message edited by beender -- 8/5/2018 9:10:22 PM >

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RE: Beender vs Chaos45- Quality of Quantity AAR - 8/5/2018 9:15:11 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Actually I have better proof (or disproof) myself. Below is from T8 and it took me a dozen of seconds to grab what had just happened.







I need not say more. I believe the proof is in the snapshots.

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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 9:16:51 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Plans were perfectly executed and a nice pocket was perfectly made. No MPs wasted and just enough panzers were employed. Such a pocket is obviously impossible to break.

Or so I thought





Regiments are easily retreated.

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Post #: 34
RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 9:20:04 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Plans were perfectly executed and a nice pocket was perfectly made. No MPs wasted and just enough panzers were employed. Such a pocket is obviously impossible to break.

Or so I thought





Regiments are easily retreated.


The pocket is nice but it is "not" optimal. I am not trying to be hard on you just telling you that you will improve and see the error soon enough :). You will learn with experience

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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 9:23:57 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Plans were perfectly executed and a nice pocket was perfectly made. No MPs wasted and just enough panzers were employed. Such a pocket is obviously impossible to break.

Or so I thought





Regiments are easily retreated.


The pocket is nice but it is "not" optimal. I am not trying to be hard on you just telling you that you will improve and see the error soon enough :). You will learn with experience


This will take 2-3 turns to clear. If you are lucky and Chaos45 doesn't open the pocket since it sounds like it was opened.

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Post #: 36
RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/5/2018 11:25:41 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		So just flipped T8....depressing turn for the soviets and probably game set match.

Either some type of fuel exploit is being used or the Germans as still just to amazingly good logistically. I see 2 fully fueled panzer divisions about 5 hexes from Stalino on T8....as well a back door around the lake panzer attack got all the way to leningrad suburbs.

As I have told the patch team multiple times they have nerfed the soviets way to much and made the germans way to good...told them a year ago when I had a game with the germans having basically taken leningrad, at moscow, and almost to rostov on like Turn 8/9 seems nothing has changed when the german player understands the logistics.

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Post #: 37
RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 12:19:38 AM   
beender


Posts: 184
Joined: 2/23/2017
From: Beijing, China
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

So just flipped T8....depressing turn for the soviets and probably game set match.

Either some type of fuel exploit is being used or the Germans as still just to amazingly good logistically. I see 2 fully fueled panzer divisions about 5 hexes from Stalino on T8....as well a back door around the lake panzer attack got all the way to leningrad suburbs.

As I have told the patch team multiple times they have nerfed the soviets way to much and made the germans way to good...told them a year ago when I had a game with the germans having basically taken leningrad, at moscow, and almost to rostov on like Turn 8/9 seems nothing has changed when the german player understands the logistics.


Axis is too strong and almost guaranteed an early win, is what I have been telling people if not so convincingly. There are inherent reasons for that: WITE accurately reflects the strength of Axis and weakness of Soviet in history, but it can't do so with the weakness of Axis, because they were largely strategical oversight and misjudgement, and for us players who have hindsight they are possible if not easy to avoid.

That panzerkorps you are referring to has not engaged in battle since T1 IIRC, and has been sitting idly since T3/4. I gave them a HQBU probably last turn and they are now more than full in terms of fuel. The rail has already passed Nikolaev so not that far from where their HQ used to be anyway. Supply tricks such as Army HQ fuel dumps I no longer use, because they are too strong and not really necessary.

Since Soviet had been generally retreating until T7, I was able to rest at least half of panzers and only keep a few units in the frontline and do all the dirty works.

Below is one of those "workholics". Thankfully, they'll have a break this turn.







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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 1:25:30 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beender


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

So just flipped T8....depressing turn for the soviets and probably game set match.

Either some type of fuel exploit is being used or the Germans as still just to amazingly good logistically. I see 2 fully fueled panzer divisions about 5 hexes from Stalino on T8....as well a back door around the lake panzer attack got all the way to leningrad suburbs.

As I have told the patch team multiple times they have nerfed the soviets way to much and made the germans way to good...told them a year ago when I had a game with the germans having basically taken leningrad, at moscow, and almost to rostov on like Turn 8/9 seems nothing has changed when the german player understands the logistics.


Axis is too strong and almost guaranteed an early win, is what I have been telling people if not so convincingly. There are inherent reasons for that: WITE accurately reflects the strength of Axis and weakness of Soviet in history, but it can't do so with the weakness of Axis, because they were largely strategical oversight and misjudgement, and for us players who have hindsight they are possible if not easy to avoid.

That panzerkorps you are referring to has not engaged in battle since T1 IIRC, and has been sitting idly since T3/4. I gave them a HQBU probably last turn and they are now more than full in terms of fuel. The rail has already passed Nikolaev so not that far from where their HQ used to be anyway. Supply tricks such as Army HQ fuel dumps I no longer use, because they are too strong and not really necessary.

Since Soviet had been generally retreating until T7, I was able to rest at least half of panzers and only keep a few units in the frontline and do all the dirty works.

Below is one of those "workholics". Thankfully, they'll have a break this turn.








I dont know if it is a gaurentee win for the Germans but the game does have a great many things stacked against the Soviets. The game rewards the attack and the Soviets are severly curtailed without the +1 when facing 2 opponents of same level. The recent patch Imo assisted the Germans more than the Soviets. The one gem was the reduced cost of forts which I now use 50-75% of my AP each turn to build fort areas to get fortifications levels earlier than normal. Hell I build 4 on turn one at 8 ap and on turn 3 the cost is 4 ap.



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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 1:35:50 AM   
beender


Posts: 184
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From: Beijing, China
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

The pocket is nice but it is "not" optimal. I am not trying to be hard on you just telling you that you will improve and see the error soon enough :). You will learn with experience

quote:

you will improve


All joking aside I knew it was not watertight and perfect, but was probably the most efficient pocket. I thought Soviet could not open it without seriously risking a good number of extra troops.

Well, chaos proved me wrong

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Post #: 40
RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 1:42:58 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beender


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

The pocket is nice but it is "not" optimal. I am not trying to be hard on you just telling you that you will improve and see the error soon enough :). You will learn with experience

quote:

you will improve


All joking aside I knew it was not watertight and perfect, but was probably the most efficient pocket. I thought Soviet could not open it without seriously risking a good number of extra troops.

Well, chaos proved me wrong


3 Divisions can pretty much force a regiment to retreat. Of course I am over simplifying this because other factors but that is where I start at and go from there for my calculations.

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RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 8:31:28 AM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Thanks for all.

For the balancing issues, you didn't play with +1 for the soviets. I think the game should be balanced with +1 and full winter.
So these options could be used, if the axis side is weaker than the soviet.

This +1 brings many more delays I think. So the perfect germans (T1, and logistic) should face the best availble soviet side to talk about balancing.

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Post #: 42
RE: T7 Axis Side - 8/6/2018 12:04:47 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		@chaos45:
Your theory with the lacking numbers is interesting (meant in a friendly way, I will need to acquire some data before having an opinion on that). Which works do you base your numbers on?
When I am back at home in a week I will look in Askey's Operation Barbarossa if I can dig out some numbers for initial OOB and replacements drafted.

Numbers are somewhat similiar in WitE2 so far (I hope I do not violate ODA by this), I guess el hefe is not inventing them so there must be sources supporting current OOB.

If you feel that is too much off topic for the AAR please say so chaos/beender.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 8/6/2018 12:12:00 PM >

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Post #: 43
T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:23:25 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		I suck so will be one pic per upload due to how the forum works and ive never figured out how to combine them lol.

My far north defense---this defense is still holding the river as of the end of T10 despite alot of finnish attacks.




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< Message edited by chaos45 -- 8/9/2018 8:35:38 PM >

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RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:24:25 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		north





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Post #: 45
RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:25:05 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		North center





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T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:25:28 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Center




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RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:26:00 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		South




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RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:26:30 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		far south- key note the cav cut off---its doesnt matter tho as port supply is insanely good for Germans.




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< Message edited by chaos45 -- 8/9/2018 8:27:03 PM >

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RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 8:29:01 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		and overall----as you can see the Germans are way ahead of historical pretty much across the board and there is very little you can do about it as the soviets in the early turn. German supply actually stays pretty good between the northern rail line that then eventually cuts to the center and relying on ports in the south. The soviets in the early game simply do not have the forces to cope with how fast the germans have become over the last couple years of patches.




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RE: T6 soviet - 8/9/2018 11:51:04 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline 		If this is T10 aren't you in fairly decent shape? Am I missing something ?

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RE: T6 soviet - 8/10/2018 12:02:52 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

If this is T10 aren't you in fairly decent shape? Am I missing something ?


This has to be turn 6 based on Benders pictures of his breakthrough. Chaos45 can confirm that but that is how I see it based on the photos putting them together with Beenders turn 7 pictures. Plus the heading says, "Turn 6". So I am 100% sure this is turn 6 pictures ;-P

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 8/10/2018 12:06:28 AM >

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RE: T6 soviet - 8/10/2018 12:09:10 AM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline 		Yes you're right looking at it again. I got confused by the reference to the Finns in T10 and thought all of the subsequent screens were from that turn.

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 8/10/2018 12:10:52 AM >

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RE: T6 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:00:12 AM   
galex

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		Beender managered his supply very well. Really there is almost nothing you can do as Sov side.

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T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:29:53 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
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RE: T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:30:31 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Center- I get a break in the encirclement to make it last one more turn.





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RE: T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:30:59 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
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RE: T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:31:34 PM   
chaos45

 

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RE: T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 6:31:59 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
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Status: offline 		Losses





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RE: T7 soviet - 8/10/2018 8:32:07 PM   
VigaBrand

 

Posts: 303
Joined: 12/19/2014
From: Germany
Status: offline 		How could he supply his southern troops. Should be very far from the next railpoint.

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