RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now.

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RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:15:13 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
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"we got to get it out for the holidays release."

So what were you implying here? Your very next sentence was saying they left out MP and campaign. What exactly does this mean then? I am more than happy to be shown I misinterpreted your meaning.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 11/19/2018 7:16:56 PM >

(in reply to actrade)

Post #: 31

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:19:50 PM

budd

Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
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If you use the rounds option and choose not to give orders during the round, isn't it pretty much WEGO without the replay.

I'd like to see a PBEM option also, and hope it gets added but it is fun in its current state and i don't find the price out of line. I'm still learning but a lot of my early pathing issues have to do with not picking the right orders and modifiers/formations and plotting way points correctly. It's certainly not perfect and hope it will be continually improved but it's not as bad as all that. I haven't noticed the AI doing anything to out of bounds, but yea it will never be like another human player but there are advantages you can adjust to make the AI tougher.

As with all games, to each their own.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 32

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:24:32 PM

thewood1

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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Again, no issues with someone not liking a game that doesn't have their favorite feature. But I want this game to succeed so those features can be added. Accusing the dev of shoving the game out the door is not conducive to doing that.

(in reply to budd)

Post #: 33

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:32:39 PM

actrade

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Joined: 11/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again, no issues with someone not liking a game that doesn't have their favorite feature. But I want this game to succeed so those features can be added. Accusing the dev of shoving the game out the door is not conducive to doing that.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but if you look around these forums, there are SEVERAL comments from the Dev team such as this one "We planned and hoped we could finish a campaign for the release, but alas it being a whole new feature it turned out to require far more planning and work than initially though. Dynamic campaign is definitely a next big thing to be released."

If you know anything about the retail business, including video games, it they aren't out in time for the holiday season, publishers get very, very cranky. You can't seriously believe that 15 unrelated single missions and a mission generator were the finished product the Devs pitched to the publisher, can you?

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 34

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:39:41 PM

Sorrow_Knight

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/11/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again, no issues with someone not liking a game that doesn't have their favorite feature. But I want this game to succeed so those features can be added. Accusing the dev of shoving the game out the door is not conducive to doing that.

What is the matter of releasing ex-free game in cost of $40 without adding there ANY features above its free state? Devs doing everithing to ruin their game by themselve. If there is no any payment for the game as before there is no questions- devs may do whatever they whant... but for selling there should be some *basic* features like single campaighn and\or MP... right now there is no difference between release version, and the free one, that I still coul donload and play... what reason for me to buy something I can have for free?

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 35

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:44:18 PM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
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the thread has been reported for moderation as the topic is getting heated and out of hand, if it carries on, it will or may get closed.

just as everyone is entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean everyone else has to reply with there own, right or wrong, in the end it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

my advice is forget it ( what ever side your on) and move on.

only friendly advice,...

take it or leave it, reported and copied all replies all the same and posted,...

(in reply to Sorrow_Knight)

Post #: 36

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 7:48:56 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Again, no issues with someone not liking a game that doesn't have their favorite feature. But I want this game to succeed so those features can be added. Accusing the dev of shoving the game out the door is not conducive to doing that.

I'm not going to do your homework for you, but if you look around these forums, there are SEVERAL comments from the Dev team such as this one "We planned and hoped we could finish a campaign for the release, but alas it being a whole new feature it turned out to require far more planning and work than initially though. Dynamic campaign is definitely a next big thing to be released."

If you know anything about the retail business, including video games, it they aren't out in time for the holiday season, publishers get very, very cranky. You can't seriously believe that 15 unrelated single missions and a mission generator were the finished product the Devs pitched to the publisher, can you?

Once again, show me where they committed that to being a product. There is a big difference between saying that something was more effort than expected and saying it got pushed out the door for holiday sales. The latter implies a broken commitment and maybe even false advertising. You don't like the game...that's fine. But accusing the dev and Matrix of not meeting their commitments is not quite fine.

Again, please explain how I could have interpreted your comment differently..."we got to get it out for the holidays release."

(in reply to actrade)

Post #: 37

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 8:04:41 PM

Adam Rinkleff

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/24/2007
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This thread is kind of rude, to be honest. The developer clearly intends to add multiplayer and campaigns, so if you want to wait, go ahead. The game is pretty good as is. I spent a lot of time playing Close Combat, and I'm thrilled that someone has finally rebooted this genre. Honestly, games like this don't really need multiplayer. Do you have some loyal friend who wants to sit for hours and wait around while you systematically probe his defenses? I'm happy to let the AI handle that. As for a campaign mode, you could easily create your own campaign by simply rolling a few dice and keeping track of your 'score'. The important thing is that this simulates up to an entire brigade (or more?) at the squad level. The core programming appears solid and stable, and I'm sure lots of additional content will be added over time.

< Message edited by Adam Rinkleff -- 11/19/2018 8:05:59 PM >

(in reply to actrade)

Post #: 38

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 8:54:11 PM

thewood1

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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As far as not being a successful game without MP or a campaign, take a look at CMNAO. It was over a year before a campaign was released. And CMNAO is fairly successful.

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)

Post #: 39

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 9:48:15 PM

demyansk

Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
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I am thankful that developers make these games. I can waste enough money on Amazon or spend over 4 hours on this game at 10 bucks an hour and I still get a good bang for the buck. You can spend ten bucks for crap at McDonald's. That's how I look at the games. You can spend 100 hours on this game right now and that be a good saving and use of your dollar. By the way, I don't want a Paradox model

Keep up the good work on the new games, plus I remember a time before single player games. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving.

< Message edited by demyansk -- 11/19/2018 9:50:12 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 40

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 10:26:58 PM

noooooo

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Joined: 9/27/2018
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Rinkleff

This thread is kind of rude, to be honest. The developer clearly intends to add multiplayer and campaigns, so if you want to wait, go ahead. The game is pretty good as is. I spent a lot of time playing Close Combat, and I'm thrilled that someone has finally rebooted this genre. Honestly, games like this don't really need multiplayer. Do you have some loyal friend who wants to sit for hours and wait around while you systematically probe his defenses? I'm happy to let the AI handle that. As for a campaign mode, you could easily create your own campaign by simply rolling a few dice and keeping track of your 'score'. The important thing is that this simulates up to an entire brigade (or more?) at the squad level. The core programming appears solid and stable, and I'm sure lots of additional content will be added over time.

You brought up a good point in your AAR. Once multiplayer is introduced everything will become about balance and no matter what happens historicity will have to take a back seat. So there are some (arguably) good sides of a singleplayer only game.

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)

Post #: 41

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 10:41:04 PM

nikolas93TS

Posts: 619
Joined: 2/24/2017
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As I said elsewhere, there is a difference between constructive critics and self-entitled players that believe the developers owes them something and that they are important in themselves just because they are potential buyers. This drive towards selfishness is why in some games you see extremely toxic communities. And yes, I noticed harshest commentary often come from people who even didn't bought the game in the first place, but I don't really understand the need to be aggressive.

If you don't like the game, it is fine. We are not forcing anybody to buy. No hard feelings. We explained the technical and business reasons for not releasing multiplayer at the moment, same for campaign. Letting your opinion be known is the only way to affect anything, and we appreciate and encourage that. But we expect some respect in turn.

As for the game being pushed prematurely only because of holidays, that is blatantly false. When we signed with Matrix back in January 2017, we were (quite optimistically) expecting the game to be ready in a year, but deadlines were continuously slipping as we kept adding new features. Even this release was initially planned for September, then October, and at certain point we had to stop. 2018 is an important milestone for us as it marks 10 years since this game first got public.

(in reply to demyansk)

Post #: 42

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 10:42:14 PM

Arianus

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I do not wanna to open a new topic, so I put it there.

My reason is not MP nor WEGO nor the reason actually I will write here, because I will buy a game next month after I receive paycheck :D

But...NO CZECHOSLOVAKIA? :)

(in reply to noooooo)

Post #: 43

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 10:52:30 PM

nikolas93TS

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I know, I know, but Poles are like the 4th largest community in Armored Brigade. And people wonder why we don't have multiplayer.*

*obscure and awful WoT reference

< Message edited by nikolas93TS -- 11/19/2018 10:58:04 PM >

(in reply to Arianus)

Post #: 44

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/19/2018 11:49:54 PM

z1812

Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

the thread has been reported for moderation as the topic is getting heated and out of hand, if it carries on, it will or may get closed.

just as everyone is entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean everyone else has to reply with there own, right or wrong, in the end it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

my advice is forget it ( what ever side your on) and move on.

only friendly advice,...

take it or leave it, reported and copied all replies all the same and posted,...

As the original poster I was hoping for a civil tone and a good discussion. So far, for the most part, that has been what has happened. The following are the numbers of posts that are quite reasonable and the type you can find on many forums.

Post 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 28, 29, 32, 40, 41

You can add another 4 as seeming to be unrelated to the discussion. So we have at least 75% reasonable posts.
Even the ones that are borderline have not been insulting, nor have posters belittled anyone in a personal way.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 45

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 12:42:04 AM

JiminyJickers

Posts: 290
Joined: 10/4/2011
From: New Zealand
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I'm buying this tonight as it is looking awesome. The campaign would be nice, but happy with what is currently on offer.

(in reply to z1812)

Post #: 46

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 1:46:16 AM

Adam Rinkleff

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Joined: 7/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: noooooo
You brought up a good point in your AAR. Once multiplayer is introduced everything will become about balance and no matter what happens historicity will have to take a back seat. So there are some (arguably) good sides of a singleplayer only game.

Yes, multiplayer leads toward competitive play, which encourages balance, which generally leads toward a dumbed down 'quick' event. Working against imbalance and pondering at length is the heart of strategy, but has little place in a fair match. Creativity generally takes a back seat to competition.

I've been playing a larger battle. I am about four hours in, slowly advancing upon a fortified line. It's interesting to me because I am constantly adjusting units and slowly inching toward the enemy line. I still haven't taken an objective, although I finally destroyed a pillbox on the outskirts. I can't expect another person to sit there and wait, but the AI is happy to serve as a punching bag.

Honestly, the AI is undoubtedly better than most of the opponents I would encounter in a multiplayer setting. If you can't tell whether you are facing an AI or a human, then what difference does it make?

So far I haven't seen the AI do any of the stupid things that I would associate with 'bad' AI. I would encourage people to play the game as either a defender, facing a very strong attacking force, or as an attacker facing a strong defense. So what if it makes piecemeal attacks - just give it more pieces! It's not at all easy, and although a campaign would be nice, considering that I'm 4 hours into this battle and haven't even started the fighting, I think it's clear that single battles are sufficiently complex. You can muster an entire brigade (reinforced)!

I honestly think that the generated missions kind of miss the mark, and people shouldn't be judging the game based on the fact that many of them are 'easy'. It's not that they are bad, but you can really create your own missions, and that's where the true value of the game is. Find a forest, or a city, or a river, and make a genuine challenge. This game really lets you create something complex, and that's a lot more interesting than just playing another quick match-up in multiplayer.

Would I enjoy multiplayer against another person? Sure, but a large battle would probably never even get finished, so I'd be stuck with relatively small engagements and to keep it fair we would have to agree to a bunch of house rules that completely take the most interesting aspects of the game away.

Has anybody tried using the time phase option to send save games back and forth for PBEM? That might actually work?

< Message edited by Adam Rinkleff -- 11/20/2018 1:50:03 AM >

(in reply to noooooo)

Post #: 47

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 2:04:53 AM

z1812

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I am not much for multiplayer in terms of playing a full game online. Most people I know just don't have the time.

I much prefer PBEM. That way there there is no rush and quite a bit of time to mull things over before you return a move.

That is what my preference is in terms of a human opponent. I would like to see that for Armoured Brigade. Wego moves with PBEM.

(in reply to Adam Rinkleff)

Post #: 48

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 2:36:11 AM

budd

Posts: 2972
Joined: 7/4/2009
From: Tacoma
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No hot seat , so don't think it's possible to exchange saves. One side is always AI.

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Post #: 49

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 2:52:31 AM

z1812

Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

No hot seat , so don't think it's possible to exchange saves. One side is always AI.

Hopefully that is something they may consider changing in the future.

(in reply to budd)

Post #: 50

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 3:02:08 AM

Adam Rinkleff

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/24/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

Hopefully that is something they may consider changing in the future.

They've already said they will be adding multiplayer and campaign options. It's good that they are focusing on the core mechanics first, otherwise we'd have a multiplayer game that doesn't work very well.

(in reply to z1812)

Post #: 51

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 7:57:51 AM

PoorOldSpike

Posts: 228
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Plymouth, England
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Personally I never play Campaigns in any game, I prefer short sharp one-off battles because I like to play in the same way I make love- quickly, brutally, decisively- so I don't care if there's no Campaign in a game..:)
And consider this- Developers need a l-o-n-g time to program a campaign into a game, so if there was a campaign in AB the game would probably still be "in development" and not in our hands for another 6 months or more.
Foe example Matrix's Panzer Corps 2 was announced in a thread in March 2017, but now, 20 months later, it still hasn't been released because of the delay needed to incorporate a campaign, and people are getting fed up with waiting so they're buying other games instead.
PS- Likewise, Matrix's Close Combat:The Bloody First has been under development for at least the past 9 months with no sign of a release date yet.

< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/20/2018 8:10:27 AM >

(in reply to actrade)

Post #: 52

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/20/2018 9:19:33 AM

demyansk

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Joined: 2/20/2008
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Great comment man

the best ever

"because I like to play in the same way I make love- quickly, brutally, decisively- so I don't care if there's no Campaign in a game..:) "

< Message edited by demyansk -- 11/20/2018 9:20:49 AM >

(in reply to PoorOldSpike)

Post #: 53

RE: Why I won't Buy this game right now. - 11/22/2018 4:58:35 PM

Artkin

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I agree closely with the OP here. The games replay value goes down without a solid base for multiplayer. 15x15km is a welcome challenge at first but I find myself exiting the game midway often from boredom. I hope to see MP, wouldn't mind paying extra for it to support the effort either.

(in reply to demyansk)

Post #: 54