Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Yellow and Green radius markers (F4 to toggle on and off) provide the ranges in visual form. I am not sure why these seem to indicate 10 and 5 hexes can be travelled. A) I thought 9 was the maximum and b) the calcs above indicated 8 and 4 anyway? Maybe one doesn't count the hex the line travels through. I'll see next turn how far this task force actually moves having started in hex 180,104.

Here's the KISS method I like to use. Look in the top upper left hand corner. See where it says 'moves'? Those numbers to the right in green are how many hexes the TF has left to move if nothing is changed and how many it is attempting to move given its current orders. Its a quick and dirty way to see if your fuel will hold out.

quote:

Mission speed is where your TF's should be 95% of the time or more. All it means is that the TF will use the proper speed for the TF based on what's going on. Normally it means the TF is using cruise speed, but if a threat is perceived it'll crank things up to full speed. You may at times wish to run at full speed. Don't do it for long, it uses massive amounts of fuel and your ships will incur additional damage.

Speaking of damage. Damaged ships are best set to cruise speed when out of danger. This will keep them from using full speed thus racking up more damage.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Has anyone used Kull's spreadsheet and happen to know what these instructions (in bold) mean please?

Sub Patrol (E Hawaii Cripple Spotter): 1-193,107(3); 2-190,103(3); React:1 (Glen Carrier)
Sub Patrol (LA Convoy Spotter): 1-217,84(4); 2-222,87(4); React:1 (Glen Carrier)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

I had to look it up: Kentucky windage is "An adjustment made by a shooter to correct for wind (or motion of the target) by aiming at a point horizontal to the target's position in the sight rather than by adjusting the sight to compensate."

The corollary is 'Arkansas elevation' - "A shooter's adjustment by aiming higher than the target's position in the sight to allow for the bullet's drop during travel rather than adjusting the sight."

Thank you, CB.

warspite1

I've considered mind_messing's and Chickenboy's advice (thanks both) as well as 'Kentucky Windage' and 'Arkansas elevation'.

For me personally I think that while a spreadsheet may help long term, it will prove just another complication that I can't cope with at this point in my development.

This sentence was the deciding factor:

...Notoriously user unfriendly to get started. Not for technophobes that don't enjoy fiddling with programs ad nauseum that make their life "easier".

I have worked with spreadsheets out of necessity for much of my working life and let's just say, Excel and warspite1 are not entirely sympatico.

So for this game I am going to rely on 'London B******s' and try and muddle through to the best of my....ahem.... ability.

quote:

warspite1: Should I be on Mission or Cruise Speed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The Yellow and Green radius markers (F4 to toggle on and off) provide the ranges in visual form. I am not sure why these seem to indicate 10 and 5 hexes can be travelled. A) I thought 9 was the maximum and b) the calcs above indicated 8 and 4 anyway? Maybe one doesn't count the hex the line travels through. I'll see next turn how far this task force actually moves having started in hex 180,104.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I spent some time analysing this flowchart and then extrapolating the data to ensure a comprehensive understanding of its functions could be obtained. Having done so for the last 16 hours solid I can now report my findings:

The colours used are, in many cases too vivid and this flowchart would definitely benefit from a more liberal use of pastel shades. For example the purple shade used for Manpwr (whatever that is) serves only to render the detail within the box illegible.

As for the rest of it? Well **** only knows.... anyone fancy a pint?

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Has anyone used Kull's spreadsheet and happen to know what these instructions (in bold) mean please?

Sub Patrol (E Hawaii Cripple Spotter): 1-193,107(3); 2-190,103(3); React:1 (Glen Carrier)
Sub Patrol (LA Convoy Spotter): 1-217,84(4); 2-222,87(4); React:1 (Glen Carrier)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

The first number is your total fuel range in hexes. The second number is the number of hexes to get to your destination and back to home port. The third number is to destination only.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

warspite1

No I'm happy with the 46 days and the movement calculation. What I still don't understand is the two numbers before the (46) - these being 175/97 and 43/97 (when on Mission speed).

The first number is your total fuel range in hexes. The second number is the number of hexes to get to your destination and back to home port. The third number is to destination only.

warspite1

That is a really important piece of into. Is that explanation in the manual or did you pick it up from the forum? I don't want to be asking questions that are answered in the manual if I can help it but I'm jiggered if I could see this explained .

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

That can be checked easily on the selected TF. 12 hexes = 480 nm. Over two phases the average speed would be (480/24=) 20 knots. The slowest ship cruise speed in that TF would have to be 20 knots. I don't know of any warships that use that high a cruise speed ( but maybe super-fast minelayer Abdiel does).

There is no way for the player to ensure a TF moves at full speed in one phase and cruise speed in another. Even the bombardment TF algorithm that normally sprints in and out of the target hex sets itself to use two full phases of movement for the sprint. Only setting the TF to Remain on Station or cruise speed with Direct/Absolute settings will cancel the sprint algorithm, but that means the TF still moves at the same speed both phases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
so the third picture below presumably just shows top speed in case on the mission the ships have to use it and alerts the player in case he has too slow a ship in a particular task force.

Not exactly. Mission speed settings for that TF will move it 8 hexes in the first movement phase and 4 in the next. Full speed settings 8/8. Cruise 3/3 or 4/2.

You had asked before how to calculate number of days to target. 1. Select your TF. 2. Select your target. 3. Adjust your movement orders / routing orders to accommodate the movement (i.e., how sensitive to different threats you want to be). Now your distance to target will be in the brackets in the 'moves (m/c)' row.

In this case, you've selected destination hex 138,96. It's 46 hexes from your current location with your current move orders.
With 'Mission' speed it will take you 46/12= just under 4 days sail. Cruise speed double that.

The part about moving 8 hexes in the first movement phase is incorrect. 8 hexes is 320 NM so in one 12 hour phase it would have to move at 26.66 kts - full speed. The TF at mission speed setting will not use full speed unless reacting to something. It will likely move at cruise speed for four hexes distance in the first naval movement phase.

My recollection is that Mission Speed TFs moves are not evenly distributed between the first and second naval movement phases. Thus, a mission speed that will yield 12 hexes is not evenly distributed 6/6 for each of the two movement phases, but rather 8/4 as an example. The first movement phase results in the preponderance of the movement for the turn.

Of course, I may be misremembering this caveat. But I'm pretty sure that the two movement phases are unequal for purposes of calculation of movement.

That can be checked easily on the selected TF. 12 hexes = 480 nm. Over two phases the average speed would be (480/24=) 20 knots. The slowest ship cruise speed in that TF would have to be 20 knots. I don't know of any warships that use that high a cruise speed ( but maybe super-fast minelayer Abdiel does).

There is no way for the player to ensure a TF moves at full speed in one phase and cruise speed in another. Even the bombardment TF algorithm that normally sprints in and out of the target hex sets itself to use two full phases of movement for the sprint. Only setting the TF to Remain on Station or cruise speed with Direct/Absolute settings will cancel the sprint algorithm, but that means the TF still moves at the same speed both phases.

I went back to the manual and looked again at the movement rules and noted the caveat on p. 92, section 6.2.3:

"Over time, a TF will move the right number of hexes for its speed, but some pulses it will move 1 hex more than others. (e.g., a TF with a speed of 10 will move 4 hexes 1 out of every 3 turns) . This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. This speed applies to both 12 hour movement pulses. So on the turns that the TF has a speed of 3, it will move 3 in both the day and night phases (6 total for the day), while on turns it moves a speed of 4, it will move 4 in both the day and night phases (8 total for the day)."

Looks like it does this to make up for a rounding error of sorts. So the CVTF example is supposed to move 4.2 hexes (Kaga slowest cruise = 4.2 hexes / naval movement segment) x 2=8 hexes total 4 days out of 5. On that 5th day, it should move 5/5=10. I think I miscalculated / misremembered how that was calculated in my previous post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

At distances 11 & 14, those appear to be the ranges of your aircraft (A6M2) with drop tanks affixed for the mission. Click on the yellow text for 'Not using drop tanks' and toggle that back and forth for additional clarification.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I would be grateful for some comment on the table below and how the game interprets orders. These are orders for the KB's air groups and come from Kull's spreadsheet. This is not designed as a commentary on Kull's orders as such - but to better understand the game mechanics for newbies like myself.
How is it you went back to being a "newbie"?

Fighters

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

The range for all fighters is 9. Why would this be set to 9? I am seeking to protect my carriers first and foremost. There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers? What would an optimal CAP look like? There is also a large difference in Patrol Level (which I understand from the manual is a percentage) and so aircraft. What would the thinking be here. Is there an optimal number of planes?
IMO there are no really specific answers to these questions. As you know Range setting limits how far that group will wander, but is subject to chance with increased chances of going farther based on group's pilots' experience. Use the Range setting to favor what you want. If all ships in one TF, use Range 0 for maximum protection, but realize the group set that way will not provide escort to any strikes on TF's which sortie (it will still go to any assigned bases, that is 'Target' bases).

Players use the percentage settings to influence how many planes are left to go on missions (left over = available for escort) and to get lots of CAP with reasonable fatigue (high CAP percentage for several turns can wear out the group). 40-50% CAP seems often used, but players vary it with the circumstances.

Dive Bombers

Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7). How do I ensure these have fighter cover if they find anything?
Can't ensure, but having fighters with a similar altitude setting and Range set at least as far as the target helps. If a base is set as Target you can set fighters group(s) to that Target.

Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?
10k-18k IIRC. 10k seems most used.

Why no search arcs for the DB's?
For bases search arcs are great. For TF's the problem is search arcs are specified by map direction. There is no option to set them relative to TF course. You might want your most intense and longest range search set for the direction of travel, but you can only do that by micro-managing search arcs for groups in the TF each turn.

Torpedo Bombers

I notice the armament for the Kates has been changed to bombs. Shouldn't at least some torpedo mounted aircraft be in the sky in case of enemy naval units that may attack?
Personal choice. The selection of bombs for TB's on Port Attack is to allow them to carry the 800 kg bombs as historically done at Pearl Harbor.

Why would search arcs be set for the TB's and not the DB's?
Personal choice. I recommend no search arcs for carrier groups in most situations.

Like the DBs Should the TB's not be escorted to their mission (should they find enemy ships?
Same comments.

Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?
The ones armed with bombs might benefit from the higher altitude??

It would be nice to get some answers to these questions but also any general commentary from experienced players on this aspect of the game. Thank-you.
Sure thing, "newbie"!

quote:

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?

quote:

Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?
10k-18k IIRC.

quote:

Why no search arcs for the DB's?

quote:

Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?

quote:

Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7).

quote:

There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers?

quote:

Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?

quote:

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you - that is very helpful.

One follow-up question:

quote:

So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.
Yes, pretty sure it only applies to the Escort mission.

And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?
GetAssista answered, but just for completeness... You have to have groups on the Naval Attack mission. Basically, you are envisioning it backwards. Put the group on Naval Attack, then set a percentage of the group to search. That percent will search while the remainder are available for any actual attack which develops.

The Search mission (and ASW) are meant for groups which are not intended to attack targets (other than individual planes while out searching).

Why Newbie? I don't think playing Coral Sea about 4 times against the AI (and getting creamed) about 10 years ago really qualifies me as anything else!
Nah! You ain't no newbie 'round 'ere!