Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, first some general comments and then I'll get into specifics.

That chart FWIW is a recipe for disaster. By that set up there will be exactly no aircraft strikes launched. All CV based bomber air units are set to search and that is all they will do. Their proper mission is Naval Attack. Once that's set a list of 'sub missions' will appear below the list of mission types. Here you may put a percentage of that units' aircraft on a 'different mission'. Such as 10% search, or 20% ASW. That being said I never put aircraft from the same group on both search and ASW. Why? Because the optimum altitude settings are different for the different mission types. Search 6k, ASW 2k.

Now my 'rule of thumb' is to set some of my DB's to search, say 10-20%, depending on the situation. No torp bombers are set to anything other than 'Naval Attack' (torpedoes). Again why? Well my DB's early on are Val's, and their ordnance is a 250kg bomb. Not bad, but not optimal. So I'll expend some of their effort on finding my targets. OTOH my TB's put holes in hulls and this lets the sea in and will ultimately sink my opponents' ships. The only way I'll change this is when I'm out of or low on torp sorties. BTW if you've run outta torps, you are either very wrong or you have decimated your opponent. Head 'home' to resup. At any rate if I get stuck in that situation, then I 'reverse' the roles of my bombers. Search with TB's and let all my DB's have an attack role. Again, again why? DB's are more accurate than level bombers, which is what TB's become with a load of bombs. Oh, and one more thing.

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Altitude is set for all aircraft at 10,000 so assume that is a 'standard' dive bomber height?
10k-18k IIRC.

That's wrong. DB's will only dive from altitudes between 10-15k. Below or above that range they will level bomb. Anything about 'glide bombing' is also wrong as at some point in development it has been removed.

Now torpedo bombers' altitude doesn't matter (for the most part), because they will drop down to 200' for the torpedo run. What does make a difference is that each attack is fired on by AAA prior to the attack and then at the 'instance of attack'. All 'heavy' AAA guns in the TF will fire in the initial attack. In the second only the guns on the attacked vessel will fire. As you can see if your initial altitude is higher you will probably have less losses from the first attack.

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Why no search arcs for the DB's?

Many players don't use search arcs. I know of no one who uses them for a TF at sea. I never set search arcs for TF's at sea. I do use them for LBA, unless the unit just has too few A/C to make a real difference. IOW units with 6 or fewer A/C.

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Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?

Again I rarely assign CV fighter groups to a specific target. You can't 'target' a TF and after PH I rarely attack land targets with my CV air units. Their pilots are too valuable to lose over land targets. Now again that's just a 'rule of thumb'. When an opportunity exists where the loss level is insignificant I will take the chance.

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Unlike the TBs the DBs have different ranges (4-7).

This is again the wrong thing to do. I set all units to the same range as I want as much as possible on target at the same time. The goal is to overwhelm his defense and blow through to strike his ships. The more the merrier in these instances.

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There is a range of altitudes set. What is the thinking here e.g. suppose there were only two carriers?

Over time the CAP process was evaluated and like all tactics during the war it evolved. CAP became layered, especially in the USN. High CAP, Low CAP, and Med CAP became SOP. So a 'range' of altitudes. I set them as best I can when there're few CV's in the TF or group of TF's.

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Why would there be a range of altitudes for the TB's?

No real need, unless you're trying to possibly slip some by his CAP. IOW you are hoping his CAP will miss some of the strikes. Hence layered CAP.

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Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.

No, it applies to all mission types. Including bombers. Hence 'Naval Attack', with a percentage assigned to another mission type. E.g., search, ASW, etc.

Well 'newbie', I hope some of this helps.

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you - that is very helpful.

One follow-up question:

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So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.

And to be clear. If I have a small number of bombers on naval search (as currently) - and they find a target - do the game mechanics then vector in other aircraft - even though I have no bombers on anything other than naval search missions? I hope that question makes sense?

Why Newbie? I don't think playing Coral Sea about 4 times against the AI (and getting creamed) about 10 years ago really qualifies me as anything else!

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Bombers on naval search will often attempt to attack the target when found.

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So if you have "Escort" setting for your fighters and "60% CAP" only a maximum of 40% of the fighters will fly Escort in this example.

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Vals: Naval Attack. Range 6. Altitude 10,000. Select 10-20% to Naval Search in submenu. Maybe have 1 unit of Vals on ASW at 2,000 ft.

Kates: Naval Attack. Range 7. Torpedoes. Altitude 10,000. No submenu selections. Why range 7 instead of 6? On the off chance that you can get a naval air engagement at arm's length, you should take it.

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Some put extra fighters on their carriers and if they suspect a pending carrier engagement,

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and not launch strike aircraft, figuring they will shred the incoming attack with 200-300 fighters against 50-60 escorts and then be free to attack the next turn

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ORIGINAL: tarkalak

When you set CAP with range different than 0, the fighters will try to cover the whole area. Also known as "leaky CAP". This increase fatigue for the pilots and wear and tear for the planes. The bigger the range the worst the fatigue will be.

So if you set your Zeroes to 50% CAP and Range 7, half the group will fly CAP (1/3rd in the air, 1/3rd warmed up, 1/3 less ready) for every hex in a 7 radius circle around your base (carrier). This CAP will be increasingly ineffective the farther they have to go from their base.

You could instead set up half of your plane groups to 100% CAP at range 0 (they will cover only the hex you are in) and the other half to 100% escort at range 6 (they will not fly CAP, but will wait for any bombing missions and fly escort for them)). The groups that fly CAP will get fatagued, so you might switch the two groups at some point or assign the 10% - 20% Rest.

As a side note: If you set up LR CAP (long range CAP), your planes will CAP the target hex and a (range) radius around it.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you - that is very helpful.

One follow-up question:

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So my understanding from the manual that there is no CAP mission as such but any mission set is effectively overridden if CAP is ordered. Kull has the fighters for Hiryu and Soryu with Pearl Harbour as a target - but presumably these aircraft won't be flying to Pearl given their assignment?
witpqs response:With Escort mission, any planes left over after the percentage assigned to the specific categories will be available for actual escort duty.

Does this apply only to fighters on Escort? Two of the air units are still on Sweep.
Yes, pretty sure it only applies to the Escort mission.

When you set a fighter mission to "Sweep", the area below that allows you to set a percentage to "CAP". I have used "Sweep/CAP" and it works.
"Sweep" was probably intended for sending most of the unit to clear the air over a designated target, but it does not have to be used that way.
If you set the unit range to 0 or 1, with the Sweep mission and 50% CAP, the chances that the leader will undertake a "Commander's Discretion" sweep mission are very low if you are more than one hex from any target that can be swept.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to witpqs)

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
Finally, in this example I have these aircraft on ASW and so want a low altitude. But does this then mean that if any aircraft from this unit flies a Naval Attack mission, they will fly at 2,000? i.e. can I not set an altitude for ASW and another for Naval Attack?

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Kates: Naval Attack. Range 7. Torpedoes. Altitude 10,000. No submenu selections. Why range 7 instead of 6? On the off chance that you can get a naval air engagement at arm's length, you should take it.

If carrier torpedoes are running low, then seek to replenish as soon as practical, as these are a major part of your strength. Your Kate pilots are skilled in NavT preferentially, less so NavB, the use of bombs.

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
Does the sentence underlined take precedence over my inserting a patrol level (i.e. there are no patrols), or does it mean that those on Rest will be the units that would otherwise take part in a Naval Attack and the units ordered on patrol still undertake those patrols?

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Finally, in this example I have these aircraft on ASW and so want a low altitude. But does this then mean that if any aircraft from this unit flies a Naval Attack mission, they will fly at 2,000? i.e. can I not set an altitude for ASW and another for Naval Attack?

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you Anachro. So for better of worse my final air orders for the KB are:

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

Thank-you Anachro. So for better of worse my final air orders for the KB are:

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

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ORIGINAL: witpqs

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

That's their mission altitude. Keep in mind when planes attack with torpedoes they are modeled as dropping down much, much, lower during the attack run and drop. Likewise when a plane dive bombs it is modeled to drop very low during the bombing dive.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

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ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

I do not know what you looked at, but this is from scenario 1 and shows the 40 Bofor has a ceiling of 9800 feet.
Device # 1539 is the one on USN ships.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: BillBrown

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

I do not know what you looked at, but this is from scenario 1 and shows the 40 Bofor has a ceiling of 9800 feet.
Device # 1539 is the one on USN ships.

That's what I get for trusting the in-game ship database rather than tracker. You are correct, the 6k value refers to the range of the Bofors in naval combat.
Keep the Kates at 10k!

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: BillBrown

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm a bit late to the CV planning party, but don't hold that against me.

I see the value in having all squadrons contribute equally to CAP and escort, but I think there's more value in keeping dedicated squadrons for escort and dedicated CAP squadrons.

In the event of a offensive strike getting mauled, the dedicated escort squadrons take the morale hit resulting from heavy losses, while the CAP squadrons remain effective.

Might be something worth thinking about.

I'd also play about with the altitude settings. From my experience, CV strikes tend to be very well co-ordinated (amongst the best and most consistent in the game) regardless of altitude settings. I'd keep the Vals at 10k as per Chickenboy, but drop the Kates down to 8k. This puts them above the light Allied AA for most of 1942 (but that changes when the Bofors starts to appear en-masse) but will give a nice boost to accuracy if they end up using bombs instead of torpedoes.

EDIT: Just checked, 6000ft is the max altitude for the 40mm Bofors, so 7k altitude should be fine for your Kates.

I do not know what you looked at, but this is from scenario 1 and shows the 40 Bofor has a ceiling of 9800 feet.
Device # 1539 is the one on USN ships.

That's what I get for trusting the in-game ship database rather than tracker. You are correct, the 6k value refers to the range of the Bofors in naval combat.
Keep the Kates at 10k!