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Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles

 
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Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:09:18 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline 		hi... this is my suggestion for an air superiority fightera... IADS (RADAR and heavy AA) and antiradar missile systems

currently at the moment air superiority is modeled by a simple slider dictating which side has air superiority etc...with air superiority disabling all CAS... i propose to change that..

introducing air superiority fighters
these fights between air superiority fighters and their targets will mostly be abstracted as modelling them would be too difficult however their outcomes should have great effects...
these basically have a probability of shooting down all CAS elements depending on the stats of the sir superiority fighter BEFORE the CAS element has arrived to the battlefield but after they have been ordered away from their airfield... this means an F-15 eagle may shoot down an SU-25 after it has been ordered to attack this point but before it has arrived to the designation... specific engagement distances along with distance from our own IADS may be assigned to prevent F-15s from flying straight into enemy IADS...

all hearts of iron 4`s naval battles seems to be a good model on how to do air superiority fighters for modern war

radar sites... ingame radar trucks or stations may be used in order to serve as early warning against incoming CAS aircraft with specific radar ranges giving specific numbers... these radar trucks or stations may be captured by the enemy hence serve as an "objective point" or focal point of an attack in order to deny enemy air superiority or even achieve air superiority yourself.. these radar sites would serve as warning sites for any launched aircraft to allow the air superiority fighters to engage them appropriately...

heavy AAA... ingame AA missiles could also serve to destroy both CAS and air superiority fighters long before they reach the battlefield with a probability determined by a new value (ECM) training and probability of hit by the missile.... at closer ranges they could also fire as normal ingame AA pieces against incoming CAS provided the CAS survived.... these expensive AAA pieces would then be the another focal point of the attack as acquiring or destroying them would be an important objective for any land force...

lastly antiradar... these could be a weapon used to deny enemy radar or at least allow CAS/ASFs to operate without impedance as their arrival would necessitate the (up to arbitration) manual or automatic "shutdown" of enemy radar assets... however such antiradar craft are virtually helpless against air superiority fighters and are vulnerable to massed heavy AA

this model seems to be an interesting addition to the game and should be an interesting DLC in my opinion

Post #: 1
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:13:46 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline 		this model would also be interesting with special forces.... SF could be used to disable enemy radar and AA installations and allow for the operation of air assets freely without interdiction

(in reply to gbem)
Post #: 2
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:23:06 PM   
varangy


Posts: 198
Joined: 11/1/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbem
radar sites... ingame radar trucks or stations may be used in order to serve as early warning against incoming CAS aircraft with specific radar ranges giving specific numbers... these radar trucks or stations may be captured by the enemy hence serve as an "objective point" or focal point of an attack in order to deny enemy air superiority or even achieve air superiority yourself.. these radar sites would serve as warning sites for any launched aircraft to allow the air superiority fighters to engage them appropriately...


Sounds good for a game like Command and Conquer series.

Medium/long range AA systems are not assets for a Battalion / Regiment and are certainly not on the front line.

(in reply to gbem)
Post #: 3
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:29:56 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline
quote:

Medium/long range AA systems are not assets for a Battalion / Regiment and are certainly not on the front line.

the largest of the battles (15kmx15km with 30000+ or more points) already approach brigade level already... and many battles in those games last well beyond 2 hours or more depending on the number of objectives... in those huge maps the AA assets could exist well beyond the frontline... safe from anything short of heavy artillery fire (which can be countered by moving)

it is also notable to mention that resupply and repair is another brigade level asset done by a resupply battalion that people have stated should be in the game... if resupply and repair is eventually added to AB then "battalion level" modelling is no excuse not to add medium/long AA (another brigade level asset)

and besides the game is named armored brigade not armored battalion

< Message edited by gbem -- 11/30/2018 6:50:34 PM >

(in reply to varangy)
Post #: 4
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:36:05 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline 		as for smaller games company level assets like heavy AA could be modeled for one side with the objective of the other side being to destroy that heavy AA...

(in reply to gbem)
Post #: 5
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:49:48 PM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline 		Regarding SEAD and DEAD mission, there was a comment from devs, that such assets will be included in BAI or strike package against strategic targets, not for CAS or XINT. Number of airplanes and munitions for SEAD and DEAD strike is limited and very tight to meet the schedule for strategic campaign. There will be simply not enough SEAD/DEAD package for CAS/XINT missions, especially at the early stage of the war. On the other hand, CAS missions usually have low priority, requires airplanes to patrol around kill box for a while, which requires many sorties. That is why high tier airforce commanders don't like CAS request time to time.

But I think this is really situational. While I agree that CAS is usually under low priority and it is not easy for Airforce to strike enemy maneuvering group whenever army want due to lack of resources, it is still possible (not common though). If enemy maneuvering group (brigade ~ corp size) is penetrating deep into friendly line, threatening important logistic/airforce base and strategically important route and location, then CINC will issue an order to airforce commander to set up strike package against enemy operational maneuvering group. Because situation is so dangerous, presence of big enemy armored group deep inside friendly zone become a strategic issue, and they become strategic target.

If this is the case, full package of Fighter Sweep / SEAD and DEAD plus heavy bombers like F111 or B52 will be included. Then we can see all fireworks on the ground.

I also suggested this, but I don't know what devs are thinking. I think it would be possible to include F111 or Su24, even B52 into the game by modding with HE and Cluster munitions.(though I'm not sure if carpet bombing is possible or not) But I'm not sure about ARM like Shrike or HARM. This game didn't modeled AGM or standoff missiles, so we can't mod the ARMs. I wish they include AGM and ARM model for fixed wing in the future.

< Message edited by exsonic01 -- 11/30/2018 6:54:54 PM >

(in reply to varangy)
Post #: 6
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 6:55:06 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline 		well the difference is this model also takes into account long range Air superiority combat by abstracting it in a similar way to hearts of iron IV`s naval combat... this way we can have medium and long range (50-70km) plane engagements take place without having to model the planes individually... the AA pieces would not be an abstraction however and the outcomes of such plane engagements would have very real consequences to the engagement...

< Message edited by gbem -- 11/30/2018 7:04:21 PM >

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 7
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 11/30/2018 7:07:27 PM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline
quote:

Regarding SEAD and DEAD mission, there was a comment from devs, that such assets will be included in BAI or strike package against strategic targets, not for CAS or XINT. Number of airplanes and munitions for SEAD and DEAD strike is limited and very tight to meet the schedule for strategic campaign. There will be simply not enough SEAD/DEAD package for CAS/XINT missions, especially at the early stage of the war. On the other hand, CAS missions usually have low priority, requires airplanes to patrol around kill box for a while, which requires many sorties. That is why high tier airforce commanders don't like CAS request time to time.


wasnt the EF-111 Raven and the prowler usually outfitted with electronic warfare kits and antiradar missiles (except the raven)?.... and wasnt the prowler actually built for electronic warfare?

correction: raven not aardvark

< Message edited by gbem -- 11/30/2018 7:11:56 PM >

(in reply to gbem)
Post #: 8
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 12/1/2018 1:38:51 AM   
exsonic01

 

Posts: 1131
Joined: 7/26/2016
From: Somewhere deep in appalachian valley in PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbem
wasnt the EF-111 Raven and the prowler usually outfitted with electronic warfare kits and antiradar missiles (except the raven)?.... and wasnt the prowler actually built for electronic warfare?

correction: raven not aardvark

They did, but the problem is, those assets were mostly concentrated for strategic bombing missions, not for CAS. Because number of such airplanes and ARMs were limited, but there were too many strategic targets (important bridge, logistics dump, highway, airfield, HQ station and etc...), especially during early stages of war. It would be almost impossible to use those assets for CAS mission or support of CAS mission under 'normal' circumstance.

But what I'm saying above is, if enemy maneuvering group penetrated into friendly line and threatens important locations or routes, or if friendly forces were in danger of being surrounded, then it would be possible.

(in reply to gbem)
Post #: 9
RE: Air superiority fighters IADS and antiradar missiles - 12/1/2018 1:44:43 AM   
gbem

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 11/19/2018
Status: offline 		^that would be another interesting dynamic... CAS could be used to delay reinforcements if the devs decide to introduce reinforcements...

(in reply to exsonic01)
Post #: 10
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