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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Subs and Sub Chasers

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Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/1/2019 7:15:21 PM

tverse

Posts: 346
Joined: 10/10/2016
Status: offline

Newbie question: I have been playing Guadacanal scenario and have a few questions.

1) The Japanese subs are pests like gnats. The are parked just a stone throw from the port at Sydney and have sunk a tanker and a cargo ship.
I have 4 or 5 ASW patrols in the area but the best they do is drive the subs to ocean floor. Each ASW patrol is a single ship and I have both
DD's and SC's working the area. Should these ASW patrols be multiple ships (especially the sub chasers (SC))?

2) Unlike the IJN Subs the allied subs don't do much of anything. I have them set up in patrol areas, max react of 1 and they just watch ships
pass by even in the same hex. This has happened over and over again (at least 5 times in the last five turns). No reaction at all.
Is there something am missing?

3) Finally Air Support TFs should they have a max React? I have been keeping all three ASTF in the same hex in hopes of a combined power. Doing quite well,
sunk appx 5 DD's and CA's. The IJN carriers show up and a battle commences and all of a sudden one of the Carrier TF advances towards the IJN carrier....long
story short she is now at the bottom of the pacific along with BB and several DD and all hands. All the ASTF were set at max react of 2 but only
one TF reacted. What should I do differently.

Any insight on these issues would be helpful.

By the way love the game, steep, steep, steep, learning curve �..

Post #: 1

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/1/2019 7:23:49 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

I haven't played a scenario like forever, but if you can change commanders on the subs (in port) that may be your fix. Go for aggressive commanders. ASW TFs should always be at least two ships, and three seems to work well. Your air ASW will spot for them. If you are keeping the CVs in separate TFs have the two fastest ones follow the slowest one by zero hexes and they should keep together.

(in reply to tverse)

Post #: 2

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/1/2019 8:16:05 PM

DanSez

Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline

Conventional Wisdom from the boards:

Optimal settings are with groups of 3 ships in ASW. Single ships can get bushwacked more effectively by subs.

You need ASW search from air groups to raise Detection Level. Naval search will also help some, but ASW specific seems to put the icons on the map while with Naval Search, you just get 'reports'.

It also helps to have night naval search at lower altitude to keep Detection Levels up for the morning reaction and attack phase.

Now, that is all great wisdom, but sometimes you don't have enough assest to do all the things you would like, so I suggest you concentrate you ASW effort to where the enemy is giving most grief and use routing and TF threat settings to try and limit exposure elsewhere.

Don't forget to set some carrier planes to ASW search when enemy carriers are no where close to striking AND remember to reset them to predominately Naval Strike before stepping out to fight. I have failed on both those fronts at one time or another. Good luck.

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 3

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/2/2019 8:23:55 PM

kbfchicago

Posts: 359
Joined: 10/17/2009
From: NC, USA
Status: offline

As DanSez & the Gorn say... 2 vessel ASW TF will work in a pinch, 3 is best. Don't recall any empirical testing validating this...but that has been my experience.

You want to have at least one ship with a decent deck gun, if you do force a sub to surface you want to be able to put the sub down.

Active ASW TFs are best, don't just park them on top of suspected or known sub locations. Use Patrol, with shorter range AMs and other vessels from Sydney I typically put two patrol points outside of the port and one in the port with refuel turned on. Set for one day loiter for each point. They will "move" to sub locations along/around the patrol route so don't worry that you have to nail the likely sub locations exactly.

Don't get your expectations up in the early part of the war. Not sure about the scenario...but it's in '42, in the campaign game it usually takes until the better depth charge technology and experience builds in your crews to start getting regular hits and a few kills (43+). As noted above best bet, any time in the war, is combined arms...air search, air ASW, and naval ASW covering the same area.

Your single engine Aussie LBs are light weights as ground bombers but can be effective in (close to shore) search and ASW. Remember that ASW range is 1/2 that of Nav Search...so if your LBs have a range of 6, they only go out 3 hexes for ASW coverage. Based on what I've seen in the forum best altitude for ASW is 1000', search is 6000'. A good setting is an 18 plane Sqdn set for Nav Search with 50% search, 40% ASW, 10% rest, 6000', overlap the Search/ASW arcs to cover the NE, E, and SE approach to Sydney. Can't hit what you can't find...so I fly's at 6K vs. 1K when flying a dual Search/ASW sqdn.

Picked up a new trick from DanSez above...I've not done night searches for Subs but his logic seems very sound. I'll be trying that out in my PBEM game!

Happy gaming. Kevin

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 4

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/2/2019 9:09:19 PM

DanSez

Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago

...
Picked up a new trick from DanSez above...I've not done night searches for Subs but his logic seems very sound. I'll be trying that out in my PBEM game!

Happy gaming. Kevin

I am just an acolyte. Masters Lowpe and Alfred discussed this with some others in Lowpe's great AAR
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3549450

Well worth reading thru for lots of good hints for any player, especially JFBs.

(in reply to kbfchicago)

Post #: 5

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/3/2019 12:31:07 PM

tverse

Posts: 346
Joined: 10/10/2016
Status: offline

Thanks for the input on the ASW this helped. Seems to be making a difference.

Now if I could allied subs to do something other than sit by and watch ships to pass over them.

(in reply to DanSez)

Post #: 6

RE: Subs and Sub Chasers - 1/3/2019 1:24:08 PM

m10bob

Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline

If my surface ships have any spotter planes, I will set them for ASW work at 60& at 1000 feet and still set 20% for spotting, with 10% at rest.
Even with just one or 2 planes it can be effective in warning of local enemy subs and still manage to find other enemy surface activity in the area.

On U.S. flattops early in the war, until I actually anticipate a carrier engagement against enemy ships, I generally set those slow Devastators at ASW 60% at 1000 feet and train at least 20%, rest 10%,(armed with bombs).
Those aircrews can always use training and (hopefully) will still be working when the TBF's become available.

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