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Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles

 
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Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/18/2019 11:57:40 PM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline 		After several PBEM games and a discussion with my friends, I would like to share this to you. As a NATO player, you got to be very careful about those AT-11

It is said that NATO tanks have absolute advantage at the range of 2000m-4000m. This is correct until the Soviets brought up a fresh tank units that can fire AT-11


quote:

1204 hrs - 1/1/48th Gds Tank Rgt : fires 125mm 2A46 basic hit chance of (2%) against a Challenger 1 at a range of 3500m / 4340m
1207 hrs - 1/1/48th Gds Tank Rgt : fires AT-11 Sniper basic hit chance of (59%) against a Challenger 1 at a range of 3500m / 3255m
1207 hrs - 1/1/48th Gds Tank Rgt (12 x T-80BV [m]) in 0926 is engaging a recce unit (2 Tank) in hex 0919 at range 3,349m.


This British HQ was dug in a hex with 30% cover, it was wiped out by a salvo of AT-11. Note the difference on the hit chance between 125mm APFSDS and AT-11 ATGM.

< Message edited by KungPao -- 1/19/2019 12:03:28 AM >

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/19/2019 12:01:15 AM   
KungPao


Posts: 333
Joined: 4/25/2016
From: Red China
Status: offline 		here is another example

quote:

1249 hrs - 3/1/48th Gds Tank Rgt : fires AT-11 Sniper basic hit chance of (37%) against a Challenger 1 at a range of 4500m / 4073m
1249 hrs - 3/1/48th Gds Tank Rgt (10 x T-80BV [m]) in 0727 is engaging a tank unit (1 x Challenger 1) in hex 0818 at range 4,562m.



My opponent brought up a Challenger platoon to built up a new defense line. Our distance was 10 hex 5000m. So he thought making this movement is relatively safe. Then he got another salvo of AT-11


3 brand new Challenger were gone before they got a chance to fire their guns

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/19/2019 11:09:06 PM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 1039
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline
Thanks for sharing...…..I've been on the receiving end of those things as well.

Rob.

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So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/20/2019 12:52:31 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Yes, those ATGMs can be nasty. Even if they don't get a kill, they can cause fallouts from the heavy warhead.

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/21/2019 5:21:34 PM   
MTTODD

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 12/1/2011
Status: offline 		Hi,

Surprised You say that AT-11 could cause fallouts because of heavy warhead.

Are they not small missiles as they are launched from a gun ? compared to other non-gun launched ATGMs ?

Just a thought!



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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/21/2019 5:28:12 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Up to 900mm pen with a tandem warhead to improve the punch through advanced composition armor.

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OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/21/2019 5:39:00 PM   
MTTODD

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 12/1/2011
Status: offline 		So are they larger missiles than other soviet ATGMS fired from helicopters or infantry launched ?

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/21/2019 6:35:15 PM   
MTTODD

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 12/1/2011
Status: offline 		I am pretty sure that any gun launched ATGM will have a much smaller diameter than a tube launched ATGM.

So I am surprised that you say the AT-11 can cause fallouts, if that were the case then the tube launched ones certainly would.

I would of thought the main threat from a ATGM is the penetration ability (that's why much research went into composite armours), not the high explosive effect to cause fallout's



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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/23/2019 12:27:38 PM   
battlerbritain

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 11/2/2013
Status: offline 		I'm of the same opinion.

I don't think 125mm gun launched ATGMs would be as effective as other, bigger bored ATGMs.

The penetration ability of a HEAT round, including ATGMs, is proportional to the diameter of the round.

So the penetration of a 125mm gun launched ATGM is still about the same as that of a 125mm HEAT round.

Adding a tandem warhead may increase it a bit but it still won't put it in the super-ATGM class.

As for effectiveness against Chobham I suspect it'd be like chucking tennis balls at it!

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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 1/25/2019 5:11:26 PM   
IronMikeGolf

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The penetration ability of a HEAT round, including ATGMs, is proportional to the diameter of the round.


That is true, if the larger diameter warhead is simply a scaled up version of the smaller and uses the same explosive filler, has adjusted standoff, same cone material and shape, etc.

However, there are many counter examples. We can look at the performance of several US and Soviet ATGMs over their life cycles and see improvements in penetration, all the while using the same missile package - diameter, length, sometimes even weight (warhead or overall). TOW-2 vs TOW has 29% more explosive, a 50% increase in warhead weight, 43% increase in penetration. Same charge diameter.

It's more nuanced that just diameter.





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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 2/3/2019 3:41:08 PM   
MTTODD

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 12/1/2011
Status: offline 		What you say is obviously true, that you can improve the missile by other factors, irrespective of diameter size.

But that still does not change the fact, that ATGM's which are tube launched should be more powerful than gun launched missiles.

Which brings me back to my unanswered question, if you are saying that the AT-11 will not only kill Tanks because of it's peneratation abilty but also
that it will cause many fallouts, then tube launched missles will ever heavier watheads would cause even more fallouts.


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RE: Be aware of the Gun-launched missiles - 2/4/2019 2:56:23 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Answers in bold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MTTODD

What you say is obviously true, that you can improve the missile by other factors, irrespective of diameter size. - Yes this is correct. A tandem warhead on a smaller diameter ATGM can hit much harder than a single larger diameter HEAT warhead.

But that still does not change the fact, that ATGM's which are tube launched should be more powerful than gun launched missiles. - No this is not a fact as stated. Yes, larger diameter CAN mean more pen, but as noted the type and technology of the warhead comes into play. Early Soviet ATGMs like the AT-1 and AT-2 are larger in diameter to later models and have significantly less pen capability due to design.

Which brings me back to my unanswered question, if you are saying that the AT-11 will not only kill Tanks because of it's penetrating ability but also that it will cause many fallouts, then tube launched missiles with ever heavier warheads would cause even more fallouts. - No this fall into the category above. All things being equal, a larger and heavier ATGM (bigger warhead assembly) will due more damage (fallouts and kills) and that's what you will see in game. Again raw diameter of a missile is not enough to equate to kill potential.





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OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

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