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RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 4:37:02 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		I agree that the Red used in the Soviet counters is too bright; not painful, but certainly jarring...

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 31
RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 4:56:27 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I agree that the Red used in the Soviet counters is too bright; not painful, but certainly jarring...


Thanks for the comment, 76mm. I'll definitely tone the red down. The "British" counters have issues as well, particularly the air unit colors. Need to look at that one again.

Cheers

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 32
RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 5:27:48 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I agree that the Red used in the Soviet counters is too bright; not painful, but certainly jarring...


Thanks for the comment, 76mm. I'll definitely tone the red down. The "British" counters have issues as well, particularly the air unit colors. Need to look at that one again.

Cheers


Beautiful work.

Nevertheless, I must agree with 76mm. Try to tone down the red. Wash it up a bit with white/yellow (just a little), so that it gets a little more readable. If you just decrease saturation, contrast will decrease, due to the luminosity of the background color. Increase lightness a bit and push the hue to the yellow side a bit as to prevent a pinkish tone. I'm posting a suggestion below. The middle one is untouched.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 33
RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 6:16:09 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks Cabido, appreciate the encouragement. I just finished a revision for comparison; follows.

005 - "standard Soviet" colors

<COLOR ID="5" MainBackground="4541738" Background="6839100" Foreground="13434880" Numbers="13434880"/>

008 - "Soviet Guards" colors (005 through 009 all use the new red)

<COLOR ID="8" MainBackground="4541738" Background="13679978" Foreground="13434880" Numbers="13434880"/>

014 - "French air unit" colors

<COLOR ID="14" MainBackground="7224113" Background="4751186" Foreground="10796484" Numbers="8753819"/>

019 - "British air unit" colors

<COLOR ID="19" MainBackground="6114350" Background="10728337" Foreground="4080950" Numbers="6782317"/>

Cheers

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 34
RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 6:46:23 PM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Good job Cathar, those Reds look great!

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 35
RE: Colors for counters - 2/25/2019 6:58:25 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

Thanks Cabido, appreciate the encouragement. I just finished a revision for comparison; follows.

005 - "standard Soviet" colors

<COLOR ID="5" MainBackground="4541738" Background="6839100" Foreground="13434880" Numbers="13434880"/>

008 - "Soviet Guards" colors (005 through 009 all use the new red)

<COLOR ID="8" MainBackground="4541738" Background="13679978" Foreground="13434880" Numbers="13434880"/>

014 - "French air unit" colors

<COLOR ID="14" MainBackground="7224113" Background="4751186" Foreground="10796484" Numbers="8753819"/>

019 - "British air unit" colors

<COLOR ID="19" MainBackground="6114350" Background="10728337" Foreground="4080950" Numbers="6782317"/>

Cheers


These are nice. Good job.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 36
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 6:42:09 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		All, thanks again for the comments and encouragement.

One I don't care for is the "Soviet Guards" look. True yellow is too garish, but even the "gold" color I used for the revised version makes the red really jump off the counter. Any suggestions? I'm thinking of reversing the foreground and background colors of the "Standard Soviet" look for Guards, but I'll have too see if that puts too much red in the mix.

Cheers

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 37
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 7:01:16 AM   
gliz2

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/20/2016
Status: offline 		Much better now ;)
I will gripe again on the colour for figures on British and French planes.

PS. Can anyone tune this up to his preferences? If I find then figures too dark on them planes would I be able to make the font brighter on my own?

_____________________________

Plans are worthless, but planning is essential.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 38
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 7:27:22 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

Much better now ;)
I will gripe again on the colour for figures on British and French planes.

PS. Can anyone tune this up to his preferences? If I find then figures too dark on them planes would I be able to make the font brighter on my own?


Hi gliz2,

Yeah, I'm trying to use colors that were actually on the aircraft ... darker tones to be sure.

Get the spreadsheet that is in this thread. It is a tool to enter hex color codes and get the numbers used by the .col file.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4513363

Hex color codes can be viewed at https://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/index.html to identify which color is desired.

Cheers

(in reply to gliz2)
Post #: 39
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 12:19:56 PM   
gliz2

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 2/20/2016
Status: offline 		Cathar,
As I've designed quite few icons/counters in my life I'd suggest to use white/black fonts for visibility.

And for planes they usually had numbering in whites (see French planes painting schemes for D.520)



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by gliz2 -- 2/26/2019 12:21:19 PM >

_____________________________

Plans are worthless, but planning is essential.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 40
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 1:12:18 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 020 through 024 (column 5)
Base counter color taken from 1943-era U.S. Army uniform.

020 "Standard U.S." Colors from GI uniform

<COLOR ID="20" MainBackground="13419697" Background="13942423" Foreground="7826512" Numbers="82977"/>

021 "USN" Colors haze grey and deep blue

<COLOR ID="21" MainBackground="13419697" Background="8682358" Foreground="1979218" Numbers="1979218"/>

022 Colors from Marine dress uniform

<COLOR ID="22" MainBackground="13419697" Background="3616321" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="3294049"/>

023 Colors taken from U.S. Sherman tank

<COLOR ID="23" MainBackground="13419697" Background="8880750" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="82977"/>

024 Colors from USAAF aircraft scheme

<COLOR ID="24" MainBackground="13419697" Background="11778749" Foreground="2310708" Numbers="2310708"/>

For anyone wanting a bright white for numbers, this color code from this series may be used: 16777208

Cheers



< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/26/2019 6:18:09 PM >

(in reply to gliz2)
Post #: 41
RE: Colors for counters - 2/26/2019 6:13:37 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 025 through 029 (column 6)
Base counter color taken from Italian Army uniform of World War II.

025 Colors from Italian grey uniform

<COLOR ID="25" MainBackground="9735295" Background="10328990" Foreground="3421236" Numbers="3421236"/>

026 Colors from Italian tropical uniform

<COLOR ID="26" MainBackground="9735295" Background="13939055" Foreground="4995622" Numbers="3421236"/>

027 Colors from Italian paratrooper uniform

<COLOR ID="27" MainBackground="9735295" Background="7106906" Foreground="13939055" Numbers="3421236"/>

028 Colors from Italian colonial infantry uniform

<COLOR ID="28" MainBackground="9735295" Background="10713692" Foreground="14473935" Numbers="3421236"/>

029 Colors from Italian aircraft scheme

<COLOR ID="29" MainBackground="9735295" Background="12161337" Foreground="4273686" Numbers="3421236"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 42
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 8:39:29 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 030 through 034 (column 7)
Base counter color taken from a Japanese uniform of World War II.

030 from Japanese Army uniform colors

<COLOR ID="30" MainBackground="9997903" Background="10649919" Foreground="9846825" Numbers="15778638"/>

031 from Japanese SNLF

<COLOR ID="31" MainBackground="9997903" Background="8490608" Foreground="11969903" Numbers="15778638"/>

032 from Japanese AFV colors

<COLOR ID="32" MainBackground="9997903" Background="10649919" Foreground="3098659" Numbers="3946036"/>

033 from Japanese flag

<COLOR ID="33" MainBackground="9997903" Background="16777208" Foreground="14887482" Numbers="16777208"/>

034 from Japanese flag and aircraft

<COLOR ID="34" MainBackground="9997903" Background="16777208" Foreground="14887482" Numbers="3685413"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 43
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 6:15:24 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline 		I must say that, visually, I love the colors you're using. I always prefer pastel colors over saturated colors, but they bring up a problem: aren't those counters for US, Italy and Japanese too similar. It would be nice to see how they would display side by side in a high density map.

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 44
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 6:37:57 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cabido
I must say that, visually, I love the colors you're using. I always prefer pastel colors over saturated colors, but they bring up a problem: aren't those counters for US, Italy and Japanese too similar. It would be nice to see how they would display side by side in a high density map.

Would the Italians units and the Japanese units ever be on the map at the same time?
I can't think of a scenario where that's ever happened.

_____________________________

If we're all created in the image of god then why aren't we all invisible?

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 45
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 7:02:09 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cabido
I must say that, visually, I love the colors you're using. I always prefer pastel colors over saturated colors, but they bring up a problem: aren't those counters for US, Italy and Japanese too similar. It would be nice to see how they would display side by side in a high density map.

Would the Italians units and the Japanese units ever be on the map at the same time?
I can't think of a scenario where that's ever happened.


How about US/Italy and US/Japan? I didn't consider all combinations. Anyway, there may be enough slots to make alternative counters for each of these countries if the focus is WWII, as it seems to be.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 46
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 7:10:12 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

How about US/Italy and US/Japan? I didn't consider all combinations. Anyway, there may be enough slots to make alternative counters for each of these countries if the focus is WWII, as it seems to be.

That sounds great to me. Thanks a bunch for all your hard work dude. We all appreciate it. I need to design a scenario now so I can use these wonderful colors.

_____________________________

If we're all created in the image of god then why aren't we all invisible?

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 47
RE: Colors for counters - 2/27/2019 8:43:09 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline 		Larry, it's important to notice that the work is by cathar. It sounded like you were thanking me. I have just made an observation to his work.

Please excuse me if that wasn't the case.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 48
RE: Colors for counters - 2/28/2019 1:17:04 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cabido
Larry, it's important to notice that the work is by cathar. It sounded like you were thanking me. I have just made an observation to his work.

Please excuse me if that wasn't the case.


I appreciate the two of you. I think you're both mega useful and handy to have around.


_____________________________

If we're all created in the image of god then why aren't we all invisible?

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 49
RE: Colors for counters - 2/28/2019 5:44:38 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks to all for the comments.

quote:

I always prefer pastel colors over saturated colors, but they bring up a problem: aren't those counters for US, Italy and Japanese too similar. It would be nice to see how they would display side by side in a high density map. --Cabido


This touches upon the issue raised by gliz2 (number visibility) and the same cause is at root. This issue is the "design philosophy" I'm using, and that is to use authentic colors of military forces of World War II (and there will be some Cold War ones as well) where possible. This choice drives the concern mentioned by Cabido; many of the field uniform colors were similar. (Cabido, I had precisely the same thought you did regarding the U.S. and Japanese counters. In many games, the U.S. are a shade of green and the Japanese are sometimes yellow or red; "saturated colors" is something I'm trying to minimize the use of.)

One thing I should mentioned is when I write "colors taken from", that is not really even a "suggested use" for the counter. It was simply a set of colors to use as a source. To be sure, I have kept those "sets" nationally aligned, but a scenario designer can pick and choose color arrangements as desired.

Once the .col file is done, I will probably also put some "singles" -- simply color combos that a scenario designer can put into a .col file for use. The "singles" will do things like represent national flag colors.

That said, I have set aside three columns of the 22 aside for more generic colors. These are tentatively assigned as a medium green, red, and blue. If anyone thinks a different color should serve for the generic sets, let me know.

Cabido, I'll put together a TOAW display of the three sets you mentioned so they can be compared in the game environment. (see below for two viewing scales)

Cheers





< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 2/28/2019 7:08:28 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 50
RE: Colors for counters - 2/28/2019 10:37:01 PM   
Cabido

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 12/11/2017
Status: offline 		Not so much of a problem for US/Japan, but US/Italy may be confused when there are multiple counters on the board with some pockets or surrounded units. Yet, if you provide alternatives, designers may avoid using this specific combination.

Perhaps using some color for the italian counter numbers could help; grey looks neutral here. See how both japanese and US counters get a nice contribution to contrast through the use of number colors. But some colors may be problematic. Does the color used for the japanese counter numbers work well with the yellow and orange color band (garrison/reorganizing)?

Anyway, these are just nuances; it's a great work overall.


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 51
RE: Colors for counters - 3/1/2019 11:10:14 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 035 through 039 (column 8)
Base counter color is a sandy color. This series is tied to national flags vice uniform colors of smaller Allied nations in World War II.

035 (Polish flag)

<COLOR ID="35" MainBackground="16769488" Background="13902141" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="13902141"/>


036 (Belgian flag)

<COLOR ID="36" MainBackground="16769488" Background="0" Foreground="16441664" Numbers="15606582"/>

037 (Dutch flag)

<COLOR ID="37" MainBackground="16769488" Background="11410472" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="2180747"/>


038 (Norwegian flag)

<COLOR ID="38" MainBackground="16769488" Background="15673129" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="9064"/>

039 (Greek flag)

<COLOR ID="39" MainBackground="16769488" Background="351920" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="351920"/>

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 3/1/2019 11:38:10 AM >

(in reply to Cabido)
Post #: 52
RE: Colors for counters - 3/1/2019 1:17:12 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 040 through 044 (column 9)
Base counter color is a light grey color. This series is tied to national flags vice uniform colors of smaller Axis nations in World War II.

040 (Finland)

<COLOR ID="40" MainBackground="14474460" Background="16777208" Foreground="12140" Numbers="12140"/>

041 (Hungary)

<COLOR ID="41" MainBackground="14474460" Background="16777208" Foreground="13509948" Numbers="4288588"/>

042 (Romania)

<COLOR ID="42" MainBackground="14474460" Background="16568598" Foreground="11135" Numbers="13504806"/>

043 (Bulgaria)

<COLOR ID="43" MainBackground="14474460" Background="39797" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="13638687"/>

044 (Croatia)

<COLOR ID="44" MainBackground="14474460" Background="16711680" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="1513366"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 53
RE: Colors for counters - 3/1/2019 1:18:42 PM   
mussey


Posts: 683
Joined: 12/2/2006
From: Cleve-Land
Status: offline 		This is beautiful work! Once this is done, I will need a lesson on how to to use these in my game. Most excellent.

_____________________________

Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"


(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 54
RE: Colors for counters - 3/1/2019 3:42:33 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Mussey,

Can do. Let me know what you're looking for and I can produce a modified .col file for use with your Next War project.

https://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/index.html can be used to choose colors. Or we can use AFV/aircraft/uniform/flag colors or whatever as a source for the colors.

The work isn't hard once one has the colors to use for a counter, plug and chug, load scenario in TOAW to see how they look in the game and adjust fire as necessary.

If you have Excel on your computer, this utility is very useful: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4513363 -- shows the colors and converts to the number strings used in the .col file.

Cheers

(in reply to mussey)
Post #: 55
RE: Colors for counters - 3/3/2019 10:20:11 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 045 through 049 (column 10)
Base counter color is one of the shades of the U.S. field uniform from the 1950s - early 1980s.

045 (U.S. postwar "fatigues" uniform)

<COLOR ID="45" MainBackground="8229707" Background="9473352" Foreground="2500126" Numbers="2500126"/>

046 (as 045 but grey foreground)

<COLOR ID="46" MainBackground="8229707" Background="8229707" Foreground="10328990" Numbers="2500126"/>

047 (as 045 but brown foreground)

<COLOR ID="47" MainBackground="8229707" Background="8229707" Foreground="9846825" Numbers="2500126"/>

048 (RVN flag colors)

<COLOR ID="48" MainBackground="8229707" Background="16776960" Foreground="14296349" Numbers="2500126"/>

049 (ROK flag colors)

<COLOR ID="49" MainBackground="8229707" Background="18336" Foreground="13446714" Numbers="16777208"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 56
RE: Colors for counters - 3/3/2019 11:36:09 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 050 through 054 (column 11)
Base counter color is a brownish shade.

050 (North Korean flag and uniform colors)

<COLOR ID="50" MainBackground="14199582" Background="6712576" Foreground="15539239" Numbers="2364171"/>

051 (North Vietnamese flag and uniform colors)

<COLOR ID="51" MainBackground="14199582" Background="9075013" Foreground="14296349" Numbers="1182996"/>

052 (Viet Cong uniform colors)

<COLOR ID="52" MainBackground="14199582" Background="1182996" Foreground="9075013" Numbers="1182996"/>
Edit: changed to calmer colors.

053 (Cuban flag colors)

<COLOR ID="53" MainBackground="14199582" Background="9616" Foreground="13634599" Numbers="16777208"/>
Edit: changed use of colors.

054 (Yugoslavian uniform colors)

<COLOR ID="54" MainBackground="14199582" Background="10858658" Foreground="2500126" Numbers="2500126"/>

Cheers


< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 3/5/2019 9:51:00 AM >

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 57
RE: Colors for counters - 3/7/2019 8:53:29 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		Edited to alter the green of the counter background.

.col entries 055 through 059 (column 12)
Base counter color is a medium green.

055 (NATO tank colors and Bundeswehr dress jacket)

<COLOR ID="55" MainBackground="3978097" Background="10066331" Foreground="6250564" Numbers="4538677"/>

056 (NATO tank colors with a nod to Horizon Bleu)

<COLOR ID="56" MainBackground="3978097" Background="7969477" Foreground="7429181" Numbers="4538677"/>

057 (NATO tank colors)

<COLOR ID="57" MainBackground="3978097" Background="14730119" Foreground="2318640" Numbers="16777208"/>

058 (NATO tank colors and Greek flag)

<COLOR ID="58" MainBackground="3978097" Background="351920" Foreground="16777208" Numbers="16777208"/>

059 (NATO tank colors and Canadian flag)

<COLOR ID="59" MainBackground="3978097" Background="16777208" Foreground="16711680" Numbers="4538677"/>

Cheers

< Message edited by cathar1244 -- 3/10/2019 1:30:16 PM >

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 58
RE: Colors for counters - 3/7/2019 4:10:55 PM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 060 through 064 (column 13)
Base counter color is taken from the original U.S. Woodland pattern BDU uniform.

060 (from U.S. Woodland pattern BDU uniform)

<COLOR ID="60" MainBackground="6519903" Background="7099967" Foreground="9867376" Numbers="3288886"/>

061 (from U.S. Cold War AFV colors)

<COLOR ID="61" MainBackground="6519903" Background="6312758" Foreground="9734250" Numbers="10993554"/>

062 (from U.S. Cold War AFV colors)

<COLOR ID="62" MainBackground="6519903" Background="10786686" Foreground="7885887" Numbers="2105124"/>

063 (from USAF "Europe" colors)

<COLOR ID="63" MainBackground="6519903" Background="4411447" Foreground="9935755" Numbers="2105124"/>

064 (from USAF grey-silver colors)

<COLOR ID="64" MainBackground="6519903" Background="9871786" Foreground="5068386" Numbers="12897994"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 59
RE: Colors for counters - 3/8/2019 7:57:30 AM   
cathar1244

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline 		.col entries 065 through 069 (column 14)
Base counter color is taken from a color used on postwar RAF aircraft.

065 (from British Cold War camouflage jacket)

<COLOR ID="65" MainBackground="10783862" Background="6457443" Foreground="5517095" Numbers="2698293"/>

066 (from British AFV colors)

<COLOR ID="66" MainBackground="10783862" Background="12821626" Foreground="3095361" Numbers="3095361"/>

067 (more British AFV colors)

<COLOR ID="67" MainBackground="10783862" Background="4606784" Foreground="12821626" Numbers="3095361"/>

068 (RAF grey colors)

<COLOR ID="68" MainBackground="10783862" Background="11645611" Foreground="5861756" Numbers="10858674"/>

069 (RAF desert colors)

<COLOR ID="69" MainBackground="10783862" Background="4802616" Foreground="12627848" Numbers="10858674"/>

Cheers

(in reply to cathar1244)
Post #: 60
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