Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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This is 8x30 factories for the Ha-45. It will complete in July 42. At that point 2 become operational and the remaining 6 convert to the Ha-43.

Those two Ha-45 plants are going to have to be large as there's quite a demand for it. Just Frank's alone should take at least 10/day. Edit. Not to mention if you go for the 12 Georges/day. The first two models use this engine.

Other operational factories will convert as well. The entire burden won't be on just those two factories. I suspect I'll have at least 4, possibly more, allocated to the Ha-45.

In my other game, I have 6 totaling 660 with the Ha-34 converted to a 7th Ha-45 factory, currently at 21(339). There are 1548 in the pool, increasing about 8 a day. I am not concerned about Ha-45 engines.

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I accelerated the Ki-100-II in my other game and am disappointed. It's not living up to its hype.

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I am playing scenario 2 with, I think (its been awhile) a database change. I probably should do a fresh install but I am too lazy . . .

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Don't forget a night fighter. You will "need" one earlier than historical.

Yeah, that'll be on the acceleration list. Not sure which one, but my current thought is speed above all else. I don't expect them to shoot many planes down but they have no chance if they can't keep up.

I'm no longer a fan of accelerating NF's. The issue is so few groups and then so few planes in those groups. Don't miss understand. I build the best one. I'd rather have some really good fighters early.

As you note, you can't get everything early.

If you are going N1K and A7M for IJN and Ki-84 and Ki-83 for IJA, i would go 12x30 N1K, 12x30 A7M, 18x30 Ki-84 and 12x30 Ki83. Minimum. that's 54 taken. Then 6 - 9 on A6M. It's your best fighter through '42. The rest pretty much as they arrive. They all have trade-offs.

You should see:
N1K in early '43. If you are lucky Feb/Mar. Yes the statistics say Apr (50%), BUT this is a one sided curve AND a high deviation (meaning broad, not sharp). It comes in Sept 100%. It's like a 20% chance to have it in Jan IIRC with 12. People forget that, they only remember the 50% mark … plus remember the second benefit: you have 360 production right away. 12 planes/day. 3 days to fill a 36 plane group. You get 2 groups converted to N1K every week.

A7M - Late 44. 12/44, close to that.
Ki-84 - 8/43 - 9/43. Something like that. Just after you get the Tojo-c. So you are going to fly the Tojo-a a long time.
ki-83 - somewhere just at the beginning of 45 … 1/45 or so. This will give you a 430 mph AC when the allies are also flying them. 9/45 when they start flying +460 mph aircraft you'll still be competitive.

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Don't forget a night fighter. You will "need" one earlier than historical.

Yeah, that'll be on the acceleration list. Not sure which one, but my current thought is speed above all else. I don't expect them to shoot many planes down but they have no chance if they can't keep up.

I'm no longer a fan of accelerating NF's. The issue is so few groups and then so few planes in those groups. Don't miss understand. I build the best one. I'd rather have some really good fighters early.

As you note, you can't get everything early.

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I think 1 x 30 Irving NF is fine and gives you that plane a few months early, plus the ready production you'll need to build a pool. It is your best NF until the Randy C can be made.

If you are going N1K and A7M for IJN and Ki-84 and Ki-83 for IJA, i would go 12x30 N1K, 12x30 A7M, 18x30 Ki-84 and 12x30 Ki83. Minimum. that's 54 taken. Then 6 - 9 on A6M. It's your best fighter through '42.

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The A6M line is of course very important through 43, but the Tojo is the best fighter in 42. You have to get it early and plentifully, and burn a ton of them to subjugate any upstart Allied threats.

You should see:
N1K in early '43. If you are lucky Feb/Mar. Yes the statistics say Apr (50%), BUT this is a one sided curve AND a high deviation (meaning broad, not sharp). It comes in Sept 100%. It's like a 20% chance to have it in Jan IIRC with 12. People forget that, they only remember the 50% mark … plus remember the second benefit: you have 360 production right away. 12 planes/day. 3 days to fill a 36 plane group. You get 2 groups converted to N1K every week.

A7M - Late 44. 12/44, close to that.
Ki-84 - 8/43 - 9/43. Something like that. Just after you get the Tojo-c. So you are going to fly the Tojo-a a long time.
ki-83 - somewhere just at the beginning of 45 … 1/45 or so. This will give you a 430 mph AC when the allies are also flying them. 9/45 when they start flying +460 mph aircraft you'll still be competitive.

I think 12 x 30 for Ki-83 is too many. I only used like 4/5 x 30 and got it in early 45. If you do 8 x 30 you'll have it in 44 for sure.

You have to think about what you're making in the end too. I don't think you can plan for making 12 x 30 (or 360/month of Ki-83). That's also a massive investment in engines, with 720/month of Ha-43 just for this plane!! The N1K5 and the A7M also use the Ha-43, so you're basically going to screw yourself making that many of these engines. I'm only making 850/month for all of them right now.

I'm WAY behind you in this thinking, mainly because I have absolutely no experience playing the Japanese in 44 (almost there!) let alone 45. Obvert, I understand your issue with the engines. But, you're going to make X number of planes late war a month. What difference does it make what type of engines you use? They all cost the same and you'll be spending the same number of HI regardless.

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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So I am going for the Ki-100 Tony but I am going through the line from the Ki-61a with most of the factories with only on on the Ki-100 Tony.

You'll find by now most of us agree this plane is a waste. If you produce the Tojo, there're essentially the same, so don't waste your R&D on a one engine (the Ki-61's) aircraft.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

... I got the Ki-83 in late 1944 with just 2 factories started on it. I eventually moved 2 more, after the Frank-r was done researching. Also got the A7M in mid-44.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

9 factories on the Zero (unless you're talking total production and R&D) is too many to me.

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ORIGINAL: obvert
….

I think 12 x 30 for Ki-83 is too many. I only used like 4/5 x 30 and got it in early 45. If you do 8 x 30 you'll have it in 44 for sure.

You have to think about what you're making in the end too. I don't think you can plan for making 12 x 30 (or 360/month of Ki-83). That's also a massive investment in engines, with 720/month of Ha-43 just for this plane!! The N1K5 and the A7M also use the Ha-43, so you're basically going to screw yourself making that many of these engines. I'm only making 850/month for all of them right now.

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: obvert
….

I think 12 x 30 for Ki-83 is too many. I only used like 4/5 x 30 and got it in early 45. If you do 8 x 30 you'll have it in 44 for sure.

You have to think about what you're making in the end too. I don't think you can plan for making 12 x 30 (or 360/month of Ki-83). That's also a massive investment in engines, with 720/month of Ha-43 just for this plane!! The N1K5 and the A7M also use the Ha-43, so you're basically going to screw yourself making that many of these engines. I'm only making 850/month for all of them right now.

Eric,

I tend to not build as many early and mid-model planes as most. And I tend to save my supply/Hi to build final models in very high qty, all based upon my analytic view point that the IJ has finite quantity of both and what do I want to build with it. So I make a lot of inconvenience for myself within the game in '42 … I run razor thin pools until the first of my RnD projects bear fruit.

In the above scenario, '42 is going to be A6M and Nates until Tojo arrives in Sept. Yeah, I suffer with Nates because the early Oscar other than range is just not a lot better than Nate. Nate is CAP, A6M escort/sweep. Tojo replaces Nate in CAP role. '42 fighter build rate is ~ 10/day. N1K replace A6M is escort/sweep role. N1K is first model to build in high volume, but still not that high ~400/month. Ki-84 comes and that is high volume and can work all roles as can N1K. . It is also will run at ~400/month. So, end of '43 I am building ~25 fighters/day.

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A7M improves things significantly as does Ki-83. End of '44 I plan to build at least 40 fighters/day. And yes, this is where the Ki-83 being twin engine can hit a speed bump in my planning and I go with the Ki-94 instead. The supply cost on the engines and the HI burn on the aircraft, the Ki94 can start to look pretty good even with those lousy cannons on it (4xHo-5 20mm would be so good!!! Ditto the J7W ...)

Anyway, so I give up a lot of comfort in 42/43 to allow myself luxury in 44/45. A conscious trade-off.

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PS: thank you for confirming (along with Loka) that my arrival dates are in fact conservative estimates. I did a game with 18x30 on A7M a couple of times … the arrival date is opsec but it was a total game changer.

PPS: And for those who cry 'fantasy', they should remember that the A7M first test flight was 9/42 IIRC. The model was actually ready to fly 3/42 but the engines delays were the issue; specifically the 2 stage induction. If not for NIH, they could/should have had that up and running late '42 at latest, but …. a lot of allied lives were saved because they did not.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

Any tips on J7W uses and drawbacks? I plan to use it for spot defence interception. It's range is restrictive for much else.

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Counter to late game deathstar sheltered invasions: ?

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Counter to late game deathstar sheltered invasions: ?

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, scenario 1.

Well then, you most likely only have the ability to accelerate one fighter from the last generation.

The odds are Honshu will be strategically bombed in 1944 sometime.

The idea of a just in time production may not work.

I know NJP tried a game with a thoroughly different strategy, and that was to build vast deep pools of Oscar, Tojo, George,Frank and A6M8 and did quite well. I believe he neglected Sam, Tony and Jack but he never ran out of planes.

Quite frankly, as long as you get Frank and Sam early, and in large numbers you will most likely do well.

Counter to Lighting sweeps early: Nick, A6M5c.
Counter to P47 sweeps: 3000 Franks/George till late 1944 in a layered cap defense.
Counter to destroyer raids: Lilly dive bomber
Counter to late game deathstar sheltered invasions: ?
Late war sweeper KI83
Counter to night bombing: Irving Sa, Nick d, something...

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the early Oscar other than range is just not a lot better than Nate.

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the Oscar program. I've always continued on and used them for escort and low CAP.

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The Dinah NF, and the Randy NF.

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NF: I use Nick FB in night CAP until Randy. There just aren't a lot of IJA choices. And Nick isn't good as it is slow, but what else? Have to have night CAP.
IJN: has more choices, but I end up with Myrt and A7M mostly as single engine.

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'42 fighter build rate is ~ 10/day.

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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NF: I use Nick FB in night CAP until Randy. There just aren't a lot of IJA choices. And Nick isn't good as it is slow, but what else? Have to have night CAP.
IJN: has more choices, but I end up with Myrt and A7M mostly as single engine.

The whole NF thing still has me messed up. Just when I think that I may have it doped out, someone throws in another monkey-wrench.

Still not sure how to resolve the issues. Planes too slow, too few groups for what seems to be a large R&D investment if I want to get something in time. Not to mention Army/Navy. What's to be done? Time to reevaluate again????

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So, scenario 1.

Well then, you most likely only have the ability to accelerate one fighter from the last generation.

The odds are Honshu will be strategically bombed in 1944 sometime.

The idea of a just in time production may not work.

I know NJP tried a game with a thoroughly different strategy, and that was to build vast deep pools of Oscar, Tojo, George,Frank and A6M8 and did quite well. I believe he neglected Sam, Tony and Jack but he never ran out of planes.

Quite frankly, as long as you get Frank and Sam early, and in large numbers you will most likely do well.

Counter to Lighting sweeps early: Nick, A6M5c.
Counter to P47 sweeps: 3000 Franks/George till late 1944 in a layered cap defense.
Counter to destroyer raids: Lilly dive bomber
Counter to late game deathstar sheltered invasions: ?
Late war sweeper KI83
Counter to night bombing: Irving Sa, Nick d, something...

Yep, That pretty much sums it up.

NF: I use Nick FB in night CAP until Randy. There just aren't a lot of IJA choices. And Nick isn't good as it is slow, but what else? Have to have night CAP.
IJN: has more choices, but I end up with Myrt and A7M mostly as single engine.

DeathStar: I haven't come up with anything in sand box that is realistic other than bleed the allies so that can't do it. The catch is how do you bleed them if they won't come out to play?
I've created sandboxes where IJ owns everything outside of NA, no losses, but the USN and Brit Navy are still intact. Playing head2head I cannot stop US-> Adak -> Hokkaido -> Honshu in late '44. The first two steps can happen so FAST. And I even know they are coming … and still cannot stop it without using extraordinary intel and/or a ton of luck.

And of course once Honshu is nuked, retaking everything (India/OZ) takes only a few months, so allies still win as long as they can create the Deathstar with +3000 fighters. Bombers are not needed.



So totally agree with your assessment on DS ….

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so allies still win as long as they can create the Deathstar with +3000 fighters. Bombers are not needed.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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NF: I use Nick FB in night CAP until Randy. There just aren't a lot of IJA choices. And Nick isn't good as it is slow, but what else? Have to have night CAP.
IJN: has more choices, but I end up with Myrt and A7M mostly as single engine.

The whole NF thing still has me messed up. Just when I think that I may have it doped out, someone throws in another monkey-wrench.

Still not sure how to resolve the issues. Planes too slow, too few groups for what seems to be a large R&D investment if I want to get something in time. Not to mention Army/Navy. What's to be done? Time to reevaluate again????

NF are a numbers game. You need to painstakingly search thru all groups that can upgrade to the NF and convert them. If you search posts by my name I did this for both Army and Navy stock game night fighters in the war room.

There are basically three generations of NF: 1st: IrvingS, IrvingSA, Nick, Dinah; 2nd Gen: Frances, Peggyd, Zero, Judy, Myrt; 3rd: Denko and Randy.

You need Irving Sa, Nick and Dinah to convert squadrons, you need the Zero to resize some of the tiny groups. For 2nd gen and later pick one...I like Peggyd to replace Nick/Dinah and Frances. Myrt has a lot to recommend it too. Randy never really gets radar, but some swear by it. Denko has sky high SR.

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You need Irving Sa, Nick and Dinah to convert squadrons

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: obvert

Any tips on J7W uses and drawbacks? I plan to use it for spot defence interception. It's range is restrictive for much else.

Yeah. CAP. high %'s because the climb is not good. (80-100% instead of 60%). DUR is only 30. That means you have to cycle them to keep the numbers up. Its all about managing the ops losses with these beasts. That's the bad.

The good. What they hit dies. Even 4E. A2A losses will be low for you due to their speed. You'll use them at the top of your CAP stack with your Franks. I really wish the Devs had chosen the 6x20mm (same weight), but they went for the 4x30mm. Still C/L is 30% acc and x4 you will get a hit with almost every burst. And as I say, pretty much every hit is a kill. Oh, the best thing about the 30mm is the range = 6. That's 50% more than the browning 50. It means when attacking 4E, you get hit a LOT less.

I don't see the range helping as much A2A against P47's, I suspect that is because of relative speeds keeping engagement time low? Just a guess. But against 4E's, you will notice a lot lower losses. So, your J7W's are going take damage, but with you being on CAP, losses won't be as high. P47's though, almost every 30mm hit is a kill … and they have a long way to return, so it usually turns out that way. That damage has to be managed or you will start to fly with too many damaged planes that will turn into high Ops losses, I check my groups every turn when they are on CAP to control that. Good luck!!

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Counter to late game deathstar sheltered invasions: ?

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Can confirm that the J7W is murder on 4Es. Have personally experienced. Also does well against late war Allied fighters, relatively speaking.

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

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NF: I use Nick FB in night CAP until Randy. There just aren't a lot of IJA choices. And Nick isn't good as it is slow, but what else? Have to have night CAP.
IJN: has more choices, but I end up with Myrt and A7M mostly as single engine.

The whole NF thing still has me messed up. Just when I think that I may have it doped out, someone throws in another monkey-wrench.

Still not sure how to resolve the issues. Planes too slow, too few groups for what seems to be a large R&D investment if I want to get something in time. Not to mention Army/Navy. What's to be done? Time to reevaluate again????

NF are a numbers game. You need to painstakingly search thru all groups that can upgrade to the NF and convert them. If you search posts by my name I did this for both Army and Navy stock game night fighters in the war room.

There are basically three generations of NF: 1st: IrvingS, IrvingSA, Nick, Dinah; 2nd Gen: Frances, Peggyd, Zero, Judy, Myrt; 3rd: Denko and Randy.

You need Irving Sa, Nick and Dinah to convert squadrons, you need the Zero to resize some of the tiny groups. For 2nd gen and later pick one...I like Peggyd to replace Nick/Dinah and Frances. Myrt has a lot to recommend it too. Randy never really gets radar, but some swear by it. Denko has sky high SR.

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ORIGINAL: jdsrae

legend obvert, that’s saved me a few thousand clicks!