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Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers

 
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Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/18/2019 8:08:29 PM   
specie1

 

Posts: 63
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		I'm in a PBEM scenario 2 and it's July 1942. I've got an abundance of 75-84 experience navy fighter pilots. I'm not losing a whole lot because i'm using mostly the A6m5c. Has anybody else taken a lot of the extra and trained them on naval torpedoing instead of sticking them in TRACOM?
Post #: 1
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/18/2019 8:19:04 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Train them to do bomb attacks against ships first. They will be able to use that skill flying either fighters, say the Sen Baku, as well as dive bombers or torpedo bombers. The IJN is always short of both qualified and unqualified pilots and crews. Don't overcommit to training any in a skill that can only be used some of the time. You will need a limited number of torp bomber crews to man your Nells, Bettys, Kates and Jills, as well as eventually getting trained torp bomber crews on your Mavises and Emilys. Almost every IJN crew needs to be adept at planting a bomb on a ship, including the fighter pilots. That is your priority. There will be many situations where a navy squadron is neither operating on a carrier or near enough to an army or navy HQ that has an inventory of torpedoes. Don't overdo the torpedo training.

(in reply to specie1)
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RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/18/2019 8:32:50 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		When they switch types of aircraft such as fighter to dive bomber to torpedo bomber to twin engine bomber and so on, the pilots will lose experience. Instead of the fighter pilots, train extra float plane pilots in naval search, ASW, Naval Bombing, Low naval Bombing, then switch them to torpedo bombers if you need to.

Save the fighter pilots and put them in TRACOM. You will need highly experience fighter pilots for your night fighters as well as you excellent sweeping fighters for later in the war.

If you are playing where you can supersize air units, simply super size some torpedo bombers units for training purposes. You should do the same for fighter pilots as well as dive bomber pilots. Also, get ready for the "Divine Wind" operations also known as Kamikazes. Train your pilots in Low Naval skills so they can hit their targets - if they get through the fighters and CAP. Those will work best against unarmed transports. If you can do so, do those attacks away from enemy CAP.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 3
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/19/2019 11:06:26 AM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

When they switch types of aircraft such as fighter to dive bomber to torpedo bomber to twin engine bomber and so on, the pilots will lose experience. Instead of the fighter pilots, train extra float plane pilots in naval search, ASW, Naval Bombing, Low naval Bombing, then switch them to torpedo bombers if you need to.

Save the fighter pilots and put them in TRACOM. You will need highly experience fighter pilots for your night fighters as well as you excellent sweeping fighters for later in the war.

If you are playing where you can supersize air units, simply super size some torpedo bombers units for training purposes. You should do the same for fighter pilots as well as dive bomber pilots. Also, get ready for the "Divine Wind" operations also known as Kamikazes. Train your pilots in Low Naval skills so they can hit their targets - if they get through the fighters and CAP. Those will work best against unarmed transports. If you can do so, do those attacks away from enemy CAP.

I didn't know that sending fighter trained pilots to bomber units would cause them to lose trained skills.
Unfortunately I've never looked.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 4
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/19/2019 11:52:24 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeeChard
I didn't know that sending fighter trained pilots to bomber units would cause them to lose trained skills.
Unfortunately I've never looked.

Experience, not skills.
Also, if instead of clicking the pilot's name you would use Request veteran -> Transfer 1/5/10 pilots, this xp loss would not happen.

Addressing the original topic, using fighter pilots in other roles would be wrong since in 44/45 Japan would need every fighter pilot it can get

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 3/19/2019 11:53:41 AM >

(in reply to LeeChard)
Post #: 5
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/19/2019 11:59:12 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I typically do the reverse, I convert bomber pilots into fighter pilots. Many squadrons of bombers can be converted into Nick squadrons, and of those that can't some can be converted to Lilys. The Lily IIb is a dive bomber and although its bomb load is light you can still do a lot of damage to a ship with a 100kg bomb. The name of this game is sinking ships. Nicks carry a heck of a bomb load as do Oscars beginning with the IIa. Compared to the IJN there is always a greater abundance of aircrews in the army. You must make use of those three models for naval attack. There's also no such thing as too many fighter pilots. Over time convert everything you can to Nicks.

(in reply to LeeChard)
Post #: 6
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/20/2019 11:07:47 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		High experience pilots take longer time to learn new skills, so it is feasible but might take too long to do

(in reply to geofflambert)
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RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/22/2019 6:57:23 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

There will be many situations where a navy squadron is neither operating on a carrier or near enough to an army or navy HQ that has an inventory of torpedoes.


If you plan carefully you can cover your whole perimeter with torp capability.



_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 8
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/22/2019 7:04:13 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
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quote:

I'm not losing a whole lot because i'm using mostly the A6m5c.


If you have this aircraft in 7/42, you must have skipped the aircraft upgrade path. In my games that's a no-no.

quote:

Has anybody else taken a lot of the extra and trained them on naval torpedoing instead of sticking them in TRACOM?


Never had the need to do so. Are you losing that many IJN bomber pilots?

quote:

When they switch types of aircraft such as fighter to dive bomber to torpedo bomber to twin engine bomber and so on, the pilots will lose experience.


Yeah, but its only about 2-3 points worth.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 9
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/23/2019 10:55:54 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

There will be many situations where a navy squadron is neither operating on a carrier or near enough to an army or navy HQ that has an inventory of torpedoes.


If you plan carefully you can cover your whole perimeter with torp capability.




True from a defensive standpoint and especially important when it is time to keep your carriers behind that perimeter, but until you set that perimeter up, that won't be the case. Also there will always be large areas searched by Mavis, Emily, Nell and Betty squadrons that won't have access to torpedo inventories. By always I mean before your empire collapses.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 10
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/23/2019 10:58:55 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		If planes on Wake Island have access to torpedoes, that's not careful planning, that's a huge mistake. In my current PBEM, due to my opponent's actions, I have Mavis and Emily squadrons operating from Diego Garcia and from Cocos Island. They don't have access to torpedo inventories.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/23/2019 11:03:41 PM >

(in reply to geofflambert)
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RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 1:13:27 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I typically do the reverse, I convert bomber pilots into fighter pilots. Many squadrons of bombers can be converted into Nick squadrons, and of those that can't some can be converted to Lilys. The Lily IIb is a dive bomber and although its bomb load is light you can still do a lot of damage to a ship with a 100kg bomb. The name of this game is sinking ships. Nicks carry a heck of a bomb load as do Oscars beginning with the IIa. Compared to the IJN there is always a greater abundance of aircrews in the army. You must make use of those three models for naval attack. There's also no such thing as too many fighter pilots. Over time convert everything you can to Nicks.


Just when i thought I had my aircraft production plan sorted... I was planning on converting all the light bombers to mediums but fighter bombers are much more versatile. Lucky I’ve got time for some rework!

Also, I wouldn’t be against a Japanese player skipping ahead along the research tree. It’s not a win win for them as while it does bring the later models online quicker, the trade off is that they have to keep the earlier models on the front line for longer. I think of it as the A6M3a protype failing to gain approval to build so the research engineers get told to work on improvements of a new A6M5 prototype.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 12
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 1:49:21 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You can go from the Rufe to the A6M5.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 13
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 2:44:19 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can go from the Rufe to the A6M5.


Some squadrons can. Figuring out what each squadron is allowed to convert to is one of the great joys of this game. I mean, think of it, if you could just convert any squadron to whatever kind of plane you wished, what would be the fun in that?

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 14
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 4:14:06 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I am referring to the research. Plus, I am playing PDU on.

But I have no F-15s or F-14s to convert to.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 15
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 4:18:55 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I am referring to the research. Plus, I am playing PDU on.

But I have no F-15s or F-14s to convert to.

The F-4B (Phantom) should be adequate for this game ...
Don't bother with the F-111

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 16
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 12:16:10 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Could you imagine JFBs complaining about the B-52 BUFF on ground strikes? A mile and a half by a half mile of devastation from just one aircraft?

Another way to look at what aircraft to build is by just what engine to use. The fewer types of engines the better for Japan. Espessialy for the end of war planes. You can just keep producing and stockpiling those because of the inevitable bombing campaign. Plus stockpiles of more than 500 engines doubles the research speed.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 17
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 6:00:43 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

If planes on Wake Island have access to torpedoes, that's not careful planning, that's a huge mistake.


That sir, is your opinion. And just because I have the ability to launch torp aircraft from that location, doesn't mean I need to station any there, as long as they can stage to the base.

quote:

I have Mavis and Emily squadrons operating from Diego Garcia and from Cocos Island. They don't have access to torpedo inventories.


That's not part of Japan's 'perimeter', and why would I want torps on Mavis or Emily. They are not combat planes IMO. Too expensive, too slow, and too vulnerable to attack.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 6:11:07 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

It’s not a win win for them as while it does bring the later models online quicker, the trade off is that they have to keep the earlier models on the front line for longer.


That's just false. By skipping ahead to the last early models, I can now undertake the development of those late war planes that much sooner. Thus by doing what you advocate I can get my late war planes 3-5 months earlier (by my most conservative estimates) than if I need to research early war models by the 'chart'. And if you believe the A6M2 can be used until the Sam comes along, you're in for a big shock. The A6M5c is definitely a 'needed' aircraft.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 19
RE: Converting Fighter Pilots to Torpedo Bombers - 3/24/2019 6:11:41 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You can go from the Rufe to the A6M5.


Yup.

Edit: I am playing PDU on.

Necessary when using the above.


< Message edited by rustysi -- 3/24/2019 6:13:14 PM >

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 20
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