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Tactics Guide update - 6/19/2001 12:28:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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Here is an update to my tactics guide. In the original I had not written the sections on the basic battle types (the standard tactical missions of defend, advance, meeting, delay and assault). Here is the assault one. Do you think that these are good tactics and does anyone have any other good ideas? Assault: Against the AIP: The AIP will defend in depth with interlocking fires but it employs a static defense. This means that it is hard to crack the defense at first but once you get in, you can reduce the defense almost at your leisure with out worrying about a strong counterattack. To get in the first task is to find the mine fields. In versions prior to 5.x, the AIP used a single linear belt of mines. The AIP still employs this but it also puts at least some mines in clusters outside the main belt to keep you guessing. The easiest means to find mines is to conduct a rolling barrage of artillery. The guns must be about 105mm or larger but the bigger, the better. A volley or two of these will certainly uncover at least one mine hex, if any are present in the impact area. Once you find one mine you need to determine if this is the main belt, running from edge to edge, or an isolated cluster. If there are other mines that are not nearby but are at about the same row then this is probably the main belt. If you only see one or two mines then nothing further up or down, keep looking. While artillery is the safest, easiest and quickest means of finding mines, it does have disadvantages. You may not have large caliber artillery or want to use up limited ammunition for this task, it creates smoke clouds that may prevent your overwatch fires from protecting advancing units, it also may shield defenders from view thus allowing them to spring ambush close assaults on your units. Using special mine detecting vehicles is another relatively safe tactic. Finally you can always buy some cheap unit and drive it forward until it explodes. While this is kind of a cheap tactic, it accurately represents what some armies did. Once you find mines clear lanes through them using standard mine clearing tactics (see link??). You need a balance between too many breaches and not enough. If you don't clear enough lanes, you may find your advance blocked with no alternate path to advance on. If you try to clear too many lanes, you will be spread too thin. I usually clear two or three lanes. Once through the mine field, you have the defenders to deal with. These may be in a linear belt paralleling the mine field and/or in interlocking clusters. While clearing lanes you probably will locate some enemy units by having them fire on you. If you don't, you may need to expose some light units to trigger the AIP to fire and thus reveal themselves. Do this in an area other than where the breaches are as the breach areas should be heavily smoked. Once the AIP reveals itself, you can extrapolate its location to where it is in the breach area. That is primarily directly behind the mines or several hexes back. Once you locate the defender's main belt, you can start reducing it then go for the AIP units in depth or go deep first them come back and mop up. I prefer reducing the main belt first as I don't feel comfortable leaving large numbers of defenders behind my advance elements and I usually want to bring up light support elements (88 mm ATGs, infantry guns, etc.) that I do not want to expose to direct fires from units in the main belt. The main difficulty in killing defenders is that they are nearly invisible and entrenched. Thus they can bring effective fire against you while you can't see them to return fire. If you can see them, direct gun fire is not very effective. Infantry units shooting from close by (adjacent to 3 hexes) or overruns are the most effective however, getting this close and living to tell about it is dangerous. Artillery is a good means to suppress the defenders so that you can move up to them without being effectively engaged. You need to watch out for bunkers hidden in the haze from your artillery as they may not be suppressed. A good tactic here is to penetrate behind the main belt them start reducing it from behind, thus if you stumble on any bunkers, you are less likely to be shot up by them. The AIP likes to employ supporting weapons (MGs, ATGs, ATRs, AA, etc.) in mutually supporting pairs covering each other. A very good tactic for an AIP. Once you locate such a weapon and start to move on it, be prepared to suppress or blind with smoke its mate. This is particularly true of weapons scattered about in depth. Against humans: As always, giving advice against humans is difficult as they can do anything. They can use mines in belts or clusters in depth, etc. Lots of heavy caliber artillery is useful against anything a human can set up. Attacking on a narrow front behind a rolling barrage is one means of protecting against being ambushed by unseen defenders but this also leaves you vulnerable to defensive artillery fire. Traditionally at least a 3:1 attacker advantage is necessary for mobile engagements to achieve a 50% chance of success. For assaults a 6:1 ratio is probably more realistic. This assumes that C&C is on which is a realistic limitation. Turning it off gives the attacker more options and an advantage over the defender (who is primarily static) and could be the basis for more balanced buy points. Consider agreeing to play by historical standards or allow free play (anything goes even if it isn't very realistic) beforehand.

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Never take counsel of your fears.
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- 6/19/2001 3:35:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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Here is what I have for the advance. I hope that I am not giving away Matrix's secrets but the AIP is so much improved that it is a challenge to play even knowing all this. Advance Against the AIP: This is similar to the assault without the disadvantages of mines and bunkers to deal with. Defender units will still probably be in "in cover" status making them hard to spot and kill. Additionally, the AIP will employ interlocking fires so as you find and take one defender under fire, you will be attacked by another defender. There are two means to deal with this, via artillery barrages (as in assaulting) or reconnaissance and overwatch. With the latter, the reconnaissance unit risks being taken under fire by defenders before it locates them. In particular if visibility is low ( less than 15 hexes or so), the defenders can fire all their shots without being spotted for opportunity fire. Thus if you use an reconnaissance vehicle (e.g. armored car or half track) it risks being blown up while infantry risk being shot at and suppressed so as to lose their remaining movement points and be stuck out in the open. If you have motor cycles available they make a dandy reconnaissance unit as they can't be killed with one hit as a vehicle can while they can rally, regain movement points then move away if shot at. Infantry reconnaissance units (e.g. scouts) can use cautious movement, that is moving one hex at a time, which will increase their survivability but you can rarely afford to advance this slowly unless you already know about where the enemy is and if you did you wouldn't be looking for him in this manner. Another tactic is to advance with two armored vehicles carrying scouts inside them (not riding on the outside where they are vulnerable to small arms fire). Unload one unit then advance the second unit one (or a few) hex(s). Then unload the moving unit, load up the first and move it slightly beyond the second. In this manner you have a scout, with its better than average spotting ability, near the moving unit to spot any defender that fires on it. The scout can pop smoke grenades if necessary. For better chances of success, carry two or three scouts in each vehicle. Be sure to have plenty of units overwatching the moving reconnaissance vehicles. The AIP seems to have several deployment templates. In previous versions of SPWaW the AIP could fight as combined arms or not but its deployment and tactics were very elementary. In ver 5.01 this is greatly improved. The AIP may employ a security zone or skirmishers with ATRs, MGs, etc. in interlocking clusters, a linear main belt or non-linear battle positions. In any case there will be some defense in depth. An added feature (missing since the original SP) is that the AIP will often position on board artillery in its rear area. This gives the attacker support units protected by ATGs, AA, MGs, etc. to go after in the AIP's rear area. This allows for simulating where the attacker must break through a main defensive zone and overrun weak supporting units in the rear. Be aware though that since the AIP employs supporting weapons in depth, this will not be a walk in the park. You must continue to employ good tactics until the very end. This adds to the complexity of the tactical tasks that the attacker must face. Should he detach an element from his main force to hunt down and kill the on board artillery and risk not having enough strength to defeat the main defender's force and having the element be ambushed and destroyed or continue to suffer fire from the artillery? Against humans: Here is where slow and steady win the race. In other sections of the guide, basic tactics such as overwatch are described. Now is the time to employ these tactics. You want to force your opponent to fight in multiple directions so this means splitting your force but you need to keep each element strong enough to avoid defeat in detail. Good selection of terrain will allow you to advance to favorable firing positions on his flanks without having to move in the open against effective fire. Strive to limit your movements to what is essential to get into good firing positions. While stationary, you gain gunnery benefits over moving units and you may achieve "in cover" status and the defensive benefits of that. Once you have achieved fire superiority over your opponent you can move to finish him off. If your opponent declines to move to you, you will have to decide how much risk to take by aggressively advancing. If you cannot hope to achieve a fire advantage over your enemy (e.g. Soviets vs. Germans or Japanese vs. USMC during certain time periods), you may need to close under cover of terrain, darkness, smoke, etc. until you can engage at close range.

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 2
- 6/19/2001 6:00:00 AM   
Jester

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/17/2000
From: Pavia- Italy
Status: offline
i always believe that some guides are very helpful,expecially for beginners,but for veterans too. the first ones can enter a new mentality, and are not completely lost; the second ones may find something different from the usual way of conducting. i personally think to be in the middle, so this reading is very useful for my play improvements. great work, just continue in this way.

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- 6/19/2001 6:21:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt: Here is an update to my tactics guide. . To get in the first task is to find the mine fields. In versions prior to 5.x, the AIP used a single linear belt of mines. The AIP still employs this but it also puts at least some mines in clusters outside the main belt to keep you guessing. The easiest means to find mines is to conduct a rolling barrage of artillery. The guns must be about 105mm or larger but the bigger, the better.
I haven't played v5x yet, but you are incorrect about the behavior of mines pre-v5. I always play with 5 victory clusters so your milage may vary. Instead of a single linear deployment of mines I have seen as many as 3 rows of mines with random mined road hexes behind the forward mines. This occured with v4 to 4.3b at the end of my WWII campaign. With a starting force of 2200 points that finished up the war with an experiance and upgrade inflation to the point value somewhere over 5000. With a smaller pt core the ai wouldn't have enough points to buy that many mines. Also, as I posted in another thread any weapon at least 20mm (smallest I tested) will expose mines (though 20mm took several shots to expose the mines). 81mm mortars seemed to expose the mines with their first hit consistantly. If you consider it incorrect that small bore tubes will clear mines, read "The Men of Company K" in a river assault where the far bank was assumed mined, the assault force concentrated every 60mm mortar from their entire regiment to fire on the far bank to clear mines. thanks, John.

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- 6/19/2001 12:53:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
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Larry I have found that direct fire from 105 or larger guns are a good way of getting dugin units to leave their positions. The German SIG 33 150mm is good for this just don't let your units stand too close. Self propelled 105 are also good. It is dangerous to use unarmored guns in this role but if that's all you have use'em.

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- 6/19/2001 2:52:00 PM   
Kettu

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 8/30/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
Hi, Since this thread is about tactics, I want to make few comments about city fighting... First, I have been playing SP-series since SP1, so I should know the tactics. Trouble is, that I am way too impatient to play city-scenarios the way they should be played. I've been playing Wild Bill's excellent Long Road to Victory Campaign... And I am now fighting in Caretan (about to take one hell of a beating). AAAAgh... Is it me or SP; city fighting is boring business, without any "soul" whatever. It is hard to comprehend these large cities as battle map. Easy to get lost and frustrated. Tactical tips for me here? (I know the fundamentals) I'd like to hear comments from other players... Regards, Kettu

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- 6/19/2001 6:48:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline
John G & Pbear (& others) Thanks for your input. John G, your playing style varies from mine so I have not seen what you posted about. The manual says what I wrote, I will conduct some tests. Has anyone else seen behavior with mines (or anything else) that varies from the manual? Pbear, good advice. Both of you, may I quote you in the guide?

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Larry Holt)
Post #: 7
- 6/20/2001 6:43:00 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
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Kettu, the two biggest tactical considerations in city fighting are the short range at which combat takes place and the severly restrictive line of sight. These are same considerations that apply to jungle fighting. Tactics; use small units one to four man scout units to screen your flanks. Make sure that these unit do not stick around when the enemy units are detected. Also use small units to scout for enemy units in front of your troops. Concentrate as much fire power as possible in a hex. Rolling barages of artillery (LARGE CALIBER) help but you must be close behind them so the enemy does not have time to recover. Keep lots of those small mortars handy. They are very good for suppressing enemy units once you have found them, their accarcy is good enough to use close to your troops. The best unit for clearing a city is engineers with SMGs. Any unit with SMGs is good but engineers are better. Work two platoons one on each side of the street with large self propelled direct fire weapons in the street. These are used to blast the MGs in the building at the end of the street so you can move freely across the street and allow you to quickly bring up renforcments. City fighting is the most dangerous, slow moving and intense type of fighting. You must take your time to win. If there are no victory hexes in a city bypass it. Personely I don't like city fights either. I'd prefer to just burn it to the ground then pick up the pieces. Hope this helps some. Larry you may use anything I post if it makes sence, if it does not make sence then please try not to make me look a bigger phoule than I am. :D [ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]

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- 6/20/2001 1:02:00 PM   
Kettu

 

Posts: 13
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From: Finland
Status: offline
Thank you bear for taking the time to answer. I continued that Carentan scenario last night (hadn't read your post then, though), and made some progress. (Guess it's a state of mind just how carefully one is willing to concentrate on city -fighting. Last night I did pretty well.) Having bombed and shelled that godforsaken french rathole, Carentan, I finally found the courage to move my tanks into town to face those StuGs and Jagdpanthers. AI moved the germans upwards in two columns towards my advancing forces. Seing this my heart dropped and sweat broke on my forehead... Well, I did not want to put my top core units (rangers) to the frontline just that they could be shot up. I moved those AUX paras (never liked those cocky paper soldiers anyway) and rifle teams + some of those stuarts in to defensive positions. This held up and weakened the AI nicely. AI has suprisingly few infantry squads out there, as I was able to sneak 2+ platoons into their rear right between those panzer fangs... BTW. Those Jagdpanters blew up pretty nicely under some haphazard bazooka -fire... Hmm. Anyways, hope ol' Bill has no new traps for me, so I'll wrap this scen tonight. Marginal victory may be possible. Still don't like fighting in the city (or in jungles, for that matter) though. Small villages are OK. I don't think these large city maps work too well in SP(waw). Never liked towns in Close Combat series either. K. Enough talk. Too much coffee makes me express my opinions using way too much text. Regards Kettu

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