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A Ship; She, He or It?

 
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A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 6:55:04 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		I have to say I'm with the admiral on this.

I've been reading The Imperial Japanese Navy in the Pacific War (Stille) recently and he routinely refers to ships as 'it'. It really, really grates .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6952911/Scottish-Maritime-Museum-stops-centuries-old-tradition-referring-vessels-her.html

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 6:58:44 PM   
Blond_Knight


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Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		Well ofcourse Britain and therefore the US refers to ships as 'she', but I believe the Russian tradition is 'he'.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:03:42 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Traveller.com.au: Since 2002, Lloyd's List, which began reporting shipping news since 1734, has referred to all vessels as "it", and many news sources have adopted this new convention. Happily, most sailors have not.

Nobody really knows why they are referred to as she. There are only theories. As long as the other guy's she/it sinks first I don't care.

Oh look, I made a pun without intending to.




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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:04:30 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Well ofcourse Britain and therefore the US refers to ships as 'she', but I believe the Russian tradition is 'he'.
warspite1

But the way things are going - and the obsession with being gender-neutral - means that the Russians will change their approach too no doubt. 'It' just doesn't sound right.... and when applied to certain vessels it's doubly wrong imo. But then I'm old.....


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:19:35 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 7:21:01 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....


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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 8:02:00 PM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....



That's ok. No one remembers where or when it met.

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 7
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 8:23:15 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
But then I'm old.....


Welcome to the club
warspite1

Is there a club? Ohhh I think I joined a club once... but if I did, I've forgotten the name of it....



That's ok. No one remembers where or when it met.

As usual, no one invited me. But then, I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have someone like me as a member.

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Post #: 8
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 9:41:32 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
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Status: offline 		I remember a Saturday Night Live skit long ago where a couple actors dressed in Navy uniforms are standing by a railing commenting on ships. "She was a fine ship." and all that stuff, they would say to each other. Then, at the end, one turns to the other and asks how his new born baby is doing and the guy replies something like, "it's doing fine but starting to teethe."

< Message edited by GaryChildress -- 4/24/2019 9:44:28 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/24/2019 11:31:32 PM   
Cataphract88


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Status: offline 		Zorch, you beat me to that punchline.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 4:57:16 AM   
MrsWargamer


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Status: offline 		I prefer ships to be 'she'.

So I guess that gives you the woman's vote here :)

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 6:28:05 AM   
RoryAndersonCDT

 

Posts: 1830
Joined: 6/16/2009
Status: offline 		US Navy History & Heritage Command's FAQ has this to say:

In languages that use gender for common nouns, boats, ships, and other vehicles almost invariably use a feminine form. Likewise, early seafarers spoke of their ships in the feminine gender for the close dependence they had on their ships for life and sustenance.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 11:43:38 AM   
wodin


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From: England
Status: offline 		She I'd say.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 12:22:53 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline 		In Italian it is basically arbitrary. Aircraft carriers, Battleships and Frigates are a “she”. Submarines, Cruisers and destroyers are a “He”. Don’t ask me why: I don’t know.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 1:45:28 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		Just because.

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 15
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 2:02:16 PM   
Piteas


Posts: 192
Joined: 3/10/2014
From: Spain
Status: offline 		In Spanish, all the warships are "He" less the frigates and patrols... they´re "she".
Don´t ask me why

< Message edited by Piteas -- 4/25/2019 2:07:16 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 2:52:47 PM   
Crossroads


Posts: 17372
Joined: 7/5/2009
Status: offline 		In Finnish there’s only two third-person pronouns, one gender-neutral for humans, another for everything else. So my vote for ’it’.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 3:13:12 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...the obsession with being gender-neutral - means that the Russians will change their approach too no doubt.


"Not bloody likely..."

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Post #: 18
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 3:36:17 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/25/2019 5:10:53 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??


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Post #: 20
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 7:12:05 AM   
Crossroads


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Joined: 7/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??



he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

One of the local comedy show protagonists of yesteryears was a super hero similar to He-Man, known as "Hän-Mies". Joke being that although now the pronoun is gender neutral, "man" in Finnish refers only to males (and not to human beings, too).

While He-Man is of course a play with words as well, here the exact translation actually refers to a gender-neutral male




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 4/26/2019 7:21:35 AM >

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RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 1:49:00 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuokkanen

In Finnish language, it has been it. Also our language don't have he/she, only 1 word for both genders without divider.

Coincidentally, words city & town are also grouped under 1 word, kaupunki, and in change of millennia was an outrage when news said that EU has declared Finland only having 7 kaupunki. News didn't say in what language it was said, and if it was in English, whether the word used was city or town.
warspite1

So in Finnish, if you say "he went to the shops", you say "it went to the shops??



he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

One of the local comedy show protagonists of yesteryears was a super hero similar to He-Man, known as "Hän-Mies". Joke being that although now the pronoun is gender neutral, "man" in Finnish refers only to males (and not to human beings, too).

While He-Man is of course a play with words as well, here the exact translation actually refers to a gender-neutral male



warspite1

Thank-you for the explanation .


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Post #: 22
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 3:02:59 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

he/she => "hän"
it => "se"

So I guess the translation to English would be something like "a person went to the shops", or something to that effect. As "it" ("se") should refer to animals and objects, only.

It is used for humans too:
"Mitä se sanoi?" = "What it said?"

What comes to "man", translations are made, depending on context, as Finnish equivalents for human (ihminen) and mankind (ihmiskunta).

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

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Post #: 23
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 7:11:34 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		Soon this won't matter, as English is being forced into androgyny. Ze will use a neutral pronoun for hir ship hirself.

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Post #: 24
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/26/2019 11:26:23 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		Long ago, I asked my My Uncle, who was a British Sailor in the Navy, why ships were referred to as "she". He replied without any hesitation, in a wonderful salty accent, that it was because "Ships like women were hard to handle". Of course that was long before Gender Sensitivity.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 4/26/2019 11:27:12 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: A Ship; She, He or It? - 4/28/2019 5:40:56 PM   
Freigeist83


Posts: 33
Joined: 4/28/2019
Status: offline 		"She" of course. Old sailor tradition...

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Post #: 26
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