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Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 4:17:37 PM

AleRonin

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In the meantine that I'm playing small scenarios I'd like to read some good AARs about scenario 1 (any side) because it will be my next step.

I already checked the "Useful Info for Beginner" topic but the AAR list is quite old.

Do you have any suggestions?

As always, thanks for the support!

Post #: 1

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 5:09:48 PM

BillBrown

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disregard

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 5/11/2019 10:40:49 PM >

(in reply to AleRonin)

Post #: 2

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 5:22:27 PM

mind_messing

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2324055

Old, hard to read but good insights on engine workings from someone in the Dev team.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 3

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 5:32:19 PM

BillBrown

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disregard

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 5/11/2019 10:41:32 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 5:50:04 PM

AleRonin

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460 pages to read, I will be busy for a while

The last AAR is a scenario 2, can be fine to read anyway even if I will play the first one?

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 5

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 6:02:55 PM

Anachro

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All AARs are learning opportunities in their own way, regardless of Scenario.

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Post #: 6

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 6:22:39 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

This is the Japanese side of the AAR for the above.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2324032

Note that PzB was considered one of top players.

Yeah, one of the "top players" that ran his economy in to the ground...

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 7

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 6:23:25 PM

BillBrown

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disregard

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 5/11/2019 10:41:14 PM >

(in reply to Anachro)

Post #: 8

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 7:16:54 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Scenario 2 is not that different from scenario 1. And you have an AAR between a developer and one of the best players there was.

PzB was a tactically sound player, but he ran the IJN all over the map and spent supplies like it didn't matter a whit.

Plot twist - it did matter, and then he complained that it was a flaw in the scenario design...

PzB was good, "one of the best" is something I'd dispute.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 9

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 7:19:20 PM

BillBrown

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I think the only games I played against him were Uncommon Valour, so maybe he was not so good at WitP / WitP:AE

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Post #: 10

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 7:33:35 PM

AleRonin

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I will read all then

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 11

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 7:51:22 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Scenario 2 is not that different from scenario 1. And you have an AAR between a developer and one of the best players there was.

PzB was a tactically sound player, but he ran the IJN all over the map and spent supplies like it didn't matter a whit.

Plot twist - it did matter, and then he complained that it was a flaw in the scenario design...

PzB was good, "one of the best" is something I'd dispute.

IIRC, PzB was playing way back when the game was quite new and the Japanese economy was still a murky subject. Few had documented how to handle it and what the pitfalls were, so most IJ players got a surprise or three. Since then there were very useful charts and advice from other players that made the IJ economy into a powerhouse that can out-produce Allied aircraft manufacture if PDU is on. IOW, don't judge PzB's economic choices by today's standards.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 12

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 8:30:41 PM

Chickenboy

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Scenario 2 is not that different from scenario 1. And you have an AAR between a developer and one of the best players there was.

PzB was a tactically sound player, but he ran the IJN all over the map and spent supplies like it didn't matter a whit.

Plot twist - it did matter, and then he complained that it was a flaw in the scenario design...

PzB was good, "one of the best" is something I'd dispute.

IIRC, PzB was playing way back when the game was quite new and the Japanese economy was still a murky subject. Few had documented how to handle it and what the pitfalls were, so most IJ players got a surprise or three. Since then there were very useful charts and advice from other players that made the IJ economy into a powerhouse that can out-produce Allied aircraft manufacture if PDU is on. IOW, don't judge PzB's economic choices by today's standards.

Well, to be fair, if he crippled half the game to focus on the other half of the game, then we must restrict accolades for that if we're to overlook the benefits of crippling the economy whilst running about. It may not be a failing grade, but it's an 'incomplete' or 'unable to assess' in that case.

_____________________________

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Post #: 13

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 9:50:20 PM

BillBrown

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disregard.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 5/11/2019 10:41:54 PM >

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 14

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 10:18:05 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

If I remember right he was surprised by the supply usage when he got a number of late war LCU reinforcements. As stated by BBFanboy, the Japanese economy was not well understood early on.

It was fuel expenditure that killed him, as he was unable to fuel his heavy industry as he'd ran the KB from ocean to ocean wiping out Allied carrier fleets.

To be honest, a great deal of that game is rose-tinted glasses. Andy Mac did not have as much interest in the naval or air games as he did the ground war, and his game suffered for it as a result.

It's well worth reading, but be careful what conclusions you draw from it.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 15

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/10/2019 10:30:02 PM

BillBrown

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And remember that this game started in middle December 2009, just about 4-1/2 months after it came out.

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Post #: 16

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 12:14:22 AM

jdsrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2324055

Old, hard to read but good insights on engine workings from someone in the Dev team.

Thanks for the link to an Andy Mac AAR.
Alfred mentions it in his Log 101 post but I hadn�t found it from a quick forum search. Did he ever do one from the Japan side?

I�m tempted to start an AAR with an industry/ logistics focus from Japan side against the AI, partly to get feedback myself but also to record some stuff here as insurance if my wife�s old computer dies. It might help players new to the Japan side learn from my mistakes and also give the �olds and bolds� a laugh at my expense.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 17

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 2:05:38 AM

Miller

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From: Ashington, England.
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Could I humbly suggest mine?

Completely stock scenario 1 with no mods of any kind. I don't go into too much detail as I don't have time but you get the gist of whats going on.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4460116

(in reply to jdsrae)

Post #: 18

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 2:24:05 AM

BillBrown

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Yep, forgot that Millers is a scenario 1. Very good AAR.

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 19

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 6:11:53 AM

AleRonin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Could I humbly suggest mine? Completely stock scenario 1 with no mods of any kind. I don't go into too much detail as I don't have time but you get the gist of whats going on.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4460116

Thanks!
You are very fast players

(in reply to Miller)

Post #: 20

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 8:50:02 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

If I remember right he was surprised by the supply usage when he got a number of late war LCU reinforcements. As stated by BBFanboy, the Japanese economy was not well understood early on.

It was fuel expenditure that killed him, as he was unable to fuel his heavy industry as he'd ran the KB from ocean to ocean wiping out Allied carrier fleets.

To be honest, a great deal of that game is rose-tinted glasses. Andy Mac did not have as much interest in the naval or air games as he did the ground war, and his game suffered for it as a result.

It's well worth reading, but be careful what conclusions you draw from it.

mind_messing,

The "rose-tinted glasses" understandably were worn by all those Japanese players who having no direct access to the devs, nor to the private development fora where game design/mechanics were discussed and analysed, were amazed at the results achieved by PzB. They didn't know that PzB had all those advantages which they themselves lacked as they tried to come to grips with game design and mechanics.

If anything you are downplaying his logistical limitations. It was not just a problem derived from tactical fuel consumption from over use of the KB. There were other significant long term logistical considerations which he sacrificed for short term gain. Then as the long term costs came into play, HRs were implemented in his match and there were requests for the devs to change game mechanics.

Alfred

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 21

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 9:19:58 AM

Alfred

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It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR. What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.

The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc. Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible. A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today, would include:

Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe

The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.

Alfred

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 22

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 11:17:40 AM

AleRonin

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Other AARs added to the list, many thanks to all.

I will check closely their posts when I will read the several topics.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 23

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 4:38:29 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Here is a good one by an excellent player, it is from the Japanese side.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3101451

The latest Allied AAR for this one, also from an excellent player
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4332189

The next to last Allied AAR for this one, again an excellent player
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4067531

and the first Allied AAR, I also think this is an excellent player
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3104086

You should probably mention who they are/the titles - I'm not clicking on any just in case.

(in reply to BillBrown)

Post #: 24

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 8:20:43 PM

ian77

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From: Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR.� What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.�

The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc.� Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible.� A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today,�would include:

Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe

The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.

Alfred

One of my favourites; RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2959613&mpage=1&key=

It even has an index page to help get you to the meaty bits fast! It is a great read, and to my mind really embodies the huge scope and nature of the game, and the comradarie of these forums.

Lots of discussion of IJ economy and set up, with contributions from most of those on Alfred's list.

< Message edited by ian77 -- 5/11/2019 8:25:13 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 25

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/11/2019 8:39:56 PM

AleRonin

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Added

(in reply to ian77)

Post #: 26

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/13/2019 8:00:52 AM

1275psi

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for entertainment:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2560960

_____________________________

big seas, fast ships, life tastes better with salt

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Post #: 27

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/13/2019 2:26:29 PM

AleRonin

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I noticed the other post, it is on my list, thanks

(in reply to 1275psi)

Post #: 28

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/14/2019 7:08:15 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ian77

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

It is neither the quality of the player playing the match, nor the particular scenario, which is of much value in assessing the value of an AAR.� What is important is the quality of the discussion contained within the AAR.�

The best AARs have significant contributions from knowledgeable forum identities which raise and analyse strategy, tactics, logistics, game mechanics etc.� Not all contributions from the peanut gallery are that good, in fact often they are downright terrible.� A selective list of good quality AAR non dev contributors not already referred to in this thread (apologies to those not included but the list had to remain manageable), not all of whom have written AARs nor remain regular posters today,�would include:

Nemo
Cribtop
PaxMondo
Crackaces
Lokasenna
Lowpe

The above focussed on commenting in Japanese AAR and a careful reading of their posts in or outside AARs is valuable.

Alfred

One of my favourites; RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2959613&mpage=1&key=

It even has an index page to help get you to the meaty bits fast! It is a great read, and to my mind really embodies the huge scope and nature of the game, and the comradarie of these forums.

Lots of discussion of IJ economy and set up, with contributions from most of those on Alfred's list.

I still follow this one, although lately it has gone dormant once more. Mile gets busy sometimes and has also recently started a second game.

I'd save reading this one for when and if you intend to tackle the Japanese economy.

All this being said above is good, but you have to realize one thing. You will develop your own game style and mode of play. All of which will change so many of the things done by other players. As for myself I do things that would have players here howling, but that's me. OTOH its one reason I still play the AI as I'd like to at least have an idea that my 'style' will work in the long run. Things are looking OK so far. Now if I could just clear my calendar enough to make the PBEM commitment.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to ian77)

Post #: 29

RE: Good AARs Scenario 1 - 5/14/2019 7:43:28 PM

AleRonin

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Joined: 4/30/2019
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Surely I will play the Japanese, maybe for the first campaign game is better to start with the Allied side.

quote:

Now if I could just clear my calendar enough to make the PBEM commitment.

I'm making my WitP-AE daily routine, moving stuff is not so long if you take notes but I'm spending lot of time thinking about the tactics, maybe because I'm new and after a while will be faster.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 30