RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission

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RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/19/2019 2:58:48 AM

DWReese

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quote:

King of Alcedo

Thanks for the reply, and the tip on the scenario. As I previously stated, I'm no very good with Lua scripts, but I can usually look at them and be able to apply them to MY situation by using the same concept.

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 31

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/21/2019 3:49:15 PM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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quote:

King of Alcedo

Thanks for recommending this scenario. It is perfect. Even if you don't play it as an actual scenario, it is perfect for displaying how cargo missions and attacks can be conducted. I would highly recommend this to everyone.

Cargo, and cargo operations, are extremely important in military operations today, and your scenario brings that to life.

Thank you once again.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 32

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/21/2019 4:08:47 PM

Whicker

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you should post that on the thread for that scen so people know you liked it.

I thought it was pretty neat just to watch from the enemy side. If I made the Blue side just have static defenses then it would be more fun to watch the Red side do its thing and attack, but I was really trying to show that the AI side could do a formidable job of taking and holding ground with cargo units against a real player with the same equipment - all with the same cargo mission abilities - ie no teleporting or other lua magic.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 33

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/21/2019 5:23:05 PM

DWReese

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That's exactly what I intend on doing. I will set up Blue as the defender, giving them a variety of things to work with, and then I will allow Red to attack. I will then watch the whole thing take place.

My initial interest in this came from watching Gunner's H-Hour scenario depicting the attack and then the invasion of Norway. CoW did not exist when the scenario was created, so any invasion forces had to be teleported into the scenario. That works fine, but I thought that since Cow and cargo now do exist, wouldn't it be nice to use them in a massive type of scenario. After I created the framework for my scenario, I reversed the tables and wanted to have the AI be able to conduct and invasion (without teleporting) by using cargo. I didn't know how to do it. But, you did it.

Thank you once again. I know that you didn't make the scenario for me, but it is exactly what I was interested in.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 34

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/26/2019 11:12:17 AM

DWReese

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quote:

I think in a later version of that script I figured out that some units got stuck and caused the action to keep assigning the same unit to the same mission and never got to any other units so I added a path to each unit at the same time as I assigned them to the mission, this took them out of the trigger area no matter what.

I am back at this again. Everything works great with your scenario, but when I try to implement the same thing with a scenario created by me, I get the one unit to move, and then nothing else. Despite the fact that the Event keeps firing, only one unit ever moves. I was wondering if you had an example of what you described above? I am only using infantry units armed with rifles going against other infantry units, so the weapon thing isn't the problem.

Any ideas? Any other Lua scripts to make this happen?

Thanks.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 35

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 2:59:32 AM

Whicker

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post it and I'll take a look.

Main things I am aware of are mostly related to strike missions:

- no enemy units to strike
- no weapons compatible - like the sams on a ground strike or even a rifle squad won't move against a runway I think

If you want to assign them to a path to take them out of the trigger area and then assign them to a mission it could be something like:

quote:

local u = ScenEdit_UnitX ()
local newCourse = { [1] = { longitude = '-91.5445688355872', latitude = '-0.39626454890968', TypeOf = 'ManualPlottedCourseWaypoint' }}
u.course = newCourse
ScenEdit_AssignUnitToMission (u.name, "your mission name")

just pick a point outside the unit remains in area area and use that instead of my lat/lon. From what I have seen anything with AI cargo should probably do this - assign a path to get them out of the trigger area in addition to assigning them to the mission so that the next unit can become UnitX. UnitX seems to only work on one unit at a time, not sure if that is intended or not.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 36

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 6:10:53 AM

MagpieS

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I tried a similar sort of script and it worked -reasonably- well.

Main issues were that the cargo units being such a small detechment were savagaed by any ground units placed inthe scenario editor and also after a few test runs the AI ust started sending all cargo units off in a random direction and not stopping, rather than patrolling within the reference points.

Why cargo units are different to scenario editor units is beyond me.

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 37

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 10:08:01 AM

DWReese

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quote:

the next unit can become UnitX. UnitX seems to only work on one unit at a time, not sure if that is intended or not.

Whicker,

You solved it. It would ALWAYS work for the first unit, and then no one else would ever be assigned. In your scenarios, most of the units are fast-moving mobile units. Once assigned, they dart off toward the target at 30 kts. I, however, have only been dealing with Infantry units which can only move at 5 kts. Plus, I seem to have a large Trigger Area so it takes forever (longer than I have patience for) for that first unit to clear the area so that the next one can be assigned. Therefore, I am only getting one unit per game (almost) to be assigned before I give up. I will try it again with smaller areas, or individual units.

I did see that the units that you had assigned using long./lat. coordinates seem to work fine. These coordinates seem very long (numerically speaking). I doubt seriously that you make these up, so how do you designate these locations? Do you click in a spot or what? How does that work?

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 38

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 10:12:38 AM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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quote:

after a few test runs the AI ust started sending all cargo units off in a random direction and not stopping, rather than patrolling within the reference points.

MagpieS,

I saw this behavior as well, even in the scenario that Whicker sent to me. Perhaps it has to do with running out of ammo. Maybe it's something else. I figure that I need to be able to get multiple units assigned first before I tackle the issue that you brought up. But, yours is a valid one.

The cargo aspect of this game is really good. Plus, it's fun. I hope that these "nuances" can somehow be ironed out.

Thanks again.

Doug

(in reply to MagpieS)

Post #: 39

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 11:44:28 AM

MagpieS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

quote:

after a few test runs the AI ust started sending all cargo units off in a random direction and not stopping, rather than patrolling within the reference points.

MagpieS,

I saw this behavior as well, even in the scenario that Whicker sent to me. Perhaps it has to do with running out of ammo. Maybe it's something else. I figure that I need to be able to get multiple units assigned first before I tackle the issue that you brought up. But, yours is a valid one.

The cargo aspect of this game is really good. Plus, it's fun. I hope that these "nuances" can somehow be ironed out.

Thanks again.

Doug

I don't think so as my routine detects when a unit enters the area and then assigns only that unit to the mission. The main issue is that it initially worked and work really well, but at some point something went wrong in the scenario and the landed units went bonkers.

The concept of a cargo module is a good one, however the way it has been implemented is terrible.
There are numerous things it won't do and getting to do even the most simple things is very cumbersome.
It should be just simply picking up in-game items from one area and taking them to another.

< Message edited by MagpieS -- 7/27/2019 11:53:23 AM >

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 40

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 12:12:33 PM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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In a practice scenario that Whicker sent to me, I was able to see helo-deployed attack vehicles approach a target (on a strike mission) and attack it. After the attack, they were out of ammo and they continued on their same path, passing their target as they had nothing to shoot at or shoot with, and continue moving in the same direction to the other side of the island that they were on. It was because each one had cleared the initial area so fast that the second, third, fourth, and fifth units were able to follow the original unit toward the target because the original had left the designated Trigger Area. My problem was caused by the fact that my units were all on foot, travelling at 5 kts an hour and therefore, would never clear the zone for the duration of the scenario.

I really do enjoy that the cargo concept, and I believe that it is vitally important. But, the way that it is set up could be improved upon in the future.

Doug

(in reply to MagpieS)

Post #: 41

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 12:25:15 PM

MagpieS

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I don't see the problem with having multiple units in the trigger area. I used "enters area" event trapping so maybe that works better.
I also assigned the units to a anti surface patrol, rather than attack so they originally would move about within a given region, fighting the defenders. But eventually the scenario itself seemed to become corrupted in some way and they would just go bananas.

I don't see how the current system can be improved as "cargo" being a separate entity is fairly fundamental to the system and is the main failing of the present sysyem.

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 42

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 2:41:35 PM

Whicker

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to get the lat lon of a spot you left click on that spot and then press cntrl + x and it will copy it to the clipboard.

I have seen the cargo units go a little crazy too, I think it had to do with no ammo. I think the main issue I have with them is there is no way to RTB them - other than that I think they work pretty well.

I didn't try the enters area trigger, that may be the easier way to do it, I was trying to give them time to hypothetically regroup before going on the attack.

(in reply to MagpieS)

Post #: 43

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 3:01:40 PM

DWReese

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Thanks for the tip on "enters area" being the trigger. Like Whicker, I thought that they should have some time to "form up", but if that will make it work, then that's the way to go.

Doug

(in reply to MagpieS)

Post #: 44

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 9:43:29 PM

DWReese

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Whicker,

You observation about the single unit movement solved the issue. After the first unit leaves, then the second unit will begin. Because I was using ground infantry units, they were only moving at 5 kts, so it was taking forever. The mystery has been solved.

Now, here is a new one. I loaded ONE HUMV with several guys armed with rifles, AND a couple of guys with armed with Milan ATMs. When they landed, they separated into two groups. The Milan armed guys took off first at 25 mph, followed later by the guys in the HUMV. The only issue is there was only one vehicle. Since the second group was actually in the vehicle, how were the Milan-armed guys travelling that fast? I noticed that in the scenario that you sent to me with the Javelin-armed guys travelling at 30 kts without a vehicle. Have you seen this? Am I missing something?

Thanks.

Doug

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 45

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 9:50:39 PM

MagpieS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker

to get the lat lon of a spot you left click on that spot and then press cntrl + x and it will copy it to the clipboard.

I have seen the cargo units go a little crazy too, I think it had to do with no ammo. I think the main issue I have with them is there is no way to RTB them - other than that I think they work pretty well.

I didn't try the enters area trigger, that may be the easier way to do it, I was trying to give them time to hypothetically regroup before going on the attack.

Simple test would be to set an event that triggers on a unit leaving the area and have it reload the unit when it does.
That would determine for sure it's an out of ammo issue. You could use that routine to simulate that the unit has been resupplied.

You could also use that trigger to reassign the unit to another mission, perhaps a support mission of some kind, in an area in the LZ/DZ so as to simulate them withdrawing from the battle or simply remove them from the patrol mission and give them a direct course to a resupply area.

At this stage though I think the key is to keep the ground warfare component fairly simple as, to be fair, that is only an incidental part of the game at the moment. Scenarios should really be confined to a short fight for a facility or LZ or similar.

What's really needed is better functionality of the cargo/transport module.

(in reply to Whicker)

Post #: 46

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/27/2019 9:58:46 PM

MagpieS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Thanks for the tip on "enters area" being the trigger. Like Whicker, I thought that they should have some time to "form up", but if that will make it work, then that's the way to go.

Doug

It wouldn't take too much to have an event that triggered on a unit entering the area to then look for a group within a given radius, if there is no group it forms one with any units within the area or if there is a group it joins that group.
You can then finish the routine with a test to see how many units are in the group and if there is enough it can move away or be assigned to a mission etc.

It does add up to a fair bit of processor overhead though

< Message edited by MagpieS -- 7/27/2019 9:59:24 PM >

(in reply to DWReese)

Post #: 47

RE: Assigning Cargo Elements to a Mission - 7/28/2019 12:32:11 AM

DWReese

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I stuck with the concept that Whicker originally had, that being a trigger based on how long the unit had been in the area. I like the idea of "forming up" before heading out. I then greatly reduced the area around the the cargo/military units. That meant that the unit escaped that zone much quicker. The first left as it should. The second left, but only after the first had cleared the area as hoped fir (and expected). The third followed, and so on. In other words, it worked perfectly.

Now, what happens when they run out of ammo, or enemy run out of enemy? I guess that is the next issue to conquer. <lol>

Doug

(in reply to MagpieS)

Post #: 48