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u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 6:29:25 AM

curricular

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Joined: 2/21/2019
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Is there any way to convert a U2VS squadron to an IL2 squadron?

Post #: 1

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 7:00:03 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
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I think these are a dead end.

(in reply to curricular)

Post #: 2

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 8:41:40 AM

Telemecus

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I thought I read somewhere that U2VS airgroups that are not NBAP can be swapped to an Il2 model. But someone else thought this had been stopped by a patch?

But as Morvael commented above, if you create a U2VS NBAP airgroup there is no way to swap to Il2.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 3

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 9:23:40 AM

fritzfarlig

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/13/2016
From: Denmark
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NBAP are waste of time

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 4

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 9:26:38 AM

morvael

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From: Poland
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Those who like to micromanage can claim a few extra casualties per turn. In the long run this adds up.

(in reply to fritzfarlig)

Post #: 5

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 2:55:50 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Those who like to micromanage can claim a few extra casualties per turn. In the long run this adds up.

What do you mean a few extra casualties per turn? Less than 10? I am getting 30-90 KIA a run on many runs now when used a certain way. Granted if used incorrectly you will only get a few extra or none at all. But those runs should be done by IL2s. These numbers keep climbing as the U2VS experience goes up.

I just hope that M60 didn't destroy his U2VS factories in his game because to me now they are worth the trouble. I know now that I was wrong in destroying those factories in my other Soviet games. U2s are now part of my Air Armada no "ifs" "ands" or "buts" about it.

_____________________________

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 6

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 2:59:37 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

I thought I read somewhere that U2VS airgroups that are not NBAP can be swapped to an Il2 model. But someone else thought this had been stopped by a patch?

But as Morvael commented above, if you create a U2VS NBAP airgroup there is no way to swap to Il2.

Ya, current state in game U2VS is a dead end with no upgrade. I thought I remembered back in the old days being able to change out to another airframe. I guess I was wrong about that. But currently they are U2VS only.

_____________________________

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 7

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 3:42:06 PM

morvael

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I don't know why this restriction was added. Not my idea.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)

Post #: 8

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 4:21:17 PM

thedoctorking

Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
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The U2VS is, as HLYA says, a respectable tac bomber in the medium term (1941-42), before you get the overwhelming numbers of IL-2 models later on. They have gotten a bad reputation because they come in with the typical lousy experience levels and it is difficult to get them up to useful levels. They take lots of casualties when bombing in the daytime. You need to keep them away from Axis units with lots of AAA (same thing applies to the R-Z and I-153BS squadrons, or FB's operating as bombers). But operating as day bombers, with respectable experience levels, they can do significant damage, more than or at least as much as the I model fighter-bombers. And you have literally thousands of them. The only real cost is the 1 AP you spend to create the squadron in the beginning (since you are already spending the armaments to produce the airframes unless you do something like move the factory into a city the Axis is going to capture). There's no pilot system in this game, unlike in WitW, so you can't profit from that pilot experience, unfortunately. Maybe later in the war you will be looking at these guys and wishing they could fly IL-2's or -10's, but they will have done a lot of execution for you in the mean time.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 9

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 4:41:00 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael
I don't know why this restriction was added. Not my idea.

I looked in the scenario data and there seemed nothing unusual about the U2VS. It has a -50 in the "change to" column but so do a few other aircraft. So I am guessing it is buried in the code.

My assumption was that U2VS is too simple an aircraft for its pilots simply to be flying another aircraft the next week, or for experience in using it to have any relevance at all to flying another aircraft at all. Anymore than throwing a grenade teaches you to fire artillery? Although if gliders were good enough to teach the early Luftwaffe fighter pilots I am not too sure why not. I guess people with experience in flying, or better combat flying, will know?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/17/2019 5:06:05 PM >

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 10

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/17/2019 6:52:35 PM

thedoctorking

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The U2 was the standard Soviet training aircraft. Every pilot started out flying it. In fact, the U2VS designation is in its trainer role. The ground attack version was the U2L-Sh. Here's the Wikipedia entry. It's silly that you can't switch these guys over to better planes and I hope that this gets patched at some point.

< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 5/17/2019 6:53:44 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)

Post #: 11

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/18/2019 1:42:14 AM

GPT55

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Joined: 2/13/2011
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The Wikipedia article is a bit contradictory. This passage from the article clearly states that the U2VS was a night bomber: "...the U-2VS (voyskovaya seriya - Military series) was created. This was a light night bomber, fitted with bomb carriers beneath the lower wing, to carry 50 or 100 kg (110 or 220 lbs) bombs up to a total weight of 350 kg (771 lb) and armed with ShKAS or DA machine guns in the observer's cockpit."

(in reply to thedoctorking)

Post #: 12

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/18/2019 2:29:17 AM

56ajax

Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Those who like to micromanage can claim a few extra casualties per turn. In the long run this adds up.

Unfortunately my games don't last that long

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre a�rienne

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 13

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/19/2019 4:33:42 AM

56ajax

Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

The U2VS is, as HLYA says, a respectable tac bomber in the medium term (1941-42), before you get the overwhelming numbers of IL-2 models later on. They have gotten a bad reputation because they come in with the typical lousy experience levels and it is difficult to get them up to useful levels. They take lots of casualties when bombing in the daytime. You need to keep them away from Axis units with lots of AAA (same thing applies to the R-Z and I-153BS squadrons, or FB's operating as bombers). But operating as day bombers, with respectable experience levels, they can do significant damage, more than or at least as much as the I model fighter-bombers. And you have literally thousands of them. The only real cost is the 1 AP you spend to create the squadron in the beginning (since you are already spending the armaments to produce the airframes unless you do something like move the factory into a city the Axis is going to capture). There's no pilot system in this game, unlike in WitW, so you can't profit from that pilot experience, unfortunately. Maybe later in the war you will be looking at these guys and wishing they could fly IL-2's or -10's, but they will have done a lot of execution for you in the mean time.

Just to clarify the production of aircraft and AFVs does not consume Armament Points; they consume supplies. Those elements with an A against them in the Production screen consume APs.

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre a�rienne

(in reply to thedoctorking)

Post #: 14

RE: u2vs to IL2 - 5/22/2019 11:13:39 PM

thedoctorking

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Joined: 4/29/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petertodd

The Wikipedia article is a bit contradictory. This passage from the article clearly states that the U2VS was a night bomber: "...the U-2VS (voyskovaya seriya - Military series) was created. This was a light night bomber, fitted with bomb carriers beneath the lower wing, to carry 50 or 100 kg (110 or 220 lbs) bombs up to a total weight of 350 kg (771 lb) and armed with ShKAS or DA machine guns in the observer's cockpit."

I think the confusion arises from the fact that they were mostly used for night bombing. But the article does say that the first use was as an improvised day tactical bomber during the siege of Odessa. They are very vulnerable when used during the day, but the fact that you have very large numbers available makes it a good call. Especially since night bombing in this game is not terribly effective.

(in reply to GPT55)

Post #: 15