RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 12:50:23 AM

Cheesesteak

Posts: 301
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From: Richmond, VA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Keep posting and have the other player wondering just what is going on. Like when someone posted a picture of a tree and 6 pages of comments were made before the opponent did another turn. He thought that some big operation was being planned . . .

I won't tell my hound dog that he didn't spawn any conversation. Perhaps Aaffin's hound will generate more interest.

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Post #: 61

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 1:03:16 AM

Cheesesteak

Posts: 301
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From: Richmond, VA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

And of course, now the personal attacks start......

Time to shout Hans down again.

I'll stop posting here as this AAR has already been hijacked beyond all propriety.

Apologies to the OP.

I hope that is not the case. I've been quite busy at work today and haven't chimed in as yet. I'll add more later.

I've appreciated yours (and others) contributions greatly. Selfishly, I hope you stick around.

Had every intention of coming home and writing a long response. Two drinks and one late dinner later, I'm exhausted. Hans, I don't think anyone was shouting you down. Healthy (and polite) disagreement has a good home on this AAR.

I do tend to agree with Alfred. When joking with Aaffins about the hornet's nest I kicked open, he correctly pointed out one item: unless you are playing an opponent you know or have read, you simply cannot fully quantify what kind of game you will have. Where on the 'Hans - mind-messing - Nemo Spectrum' (TM) will your opponent fall? You can speak at a high level, try to compensate for skill estimates, etc., but at the end of the day you have to take ~1600 turns to figure out what kind of game you will have. It's an incredibly well created game, and to paraphrase Alfred, explains why all mods only tweak, rather than recreate.

Time for another beer. Cheers, gents!

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"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

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Post #: 62

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 7:49:15 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsallen64
I get what Hans is saying. The shell shock from an experience like that goes deep and is not easily shaken off, and perusing this forum and others for 10 years tells me that even here, after lengthy commitments to a campaign, some players walk away when they don't like how things are going.

That's life. You can get burned on your first love, then shake it off and continue anew. Or you can spend the rest of your life telling people around you that they should not trust each other because they can get burned.

(in reply to rsallen64)

Post #: 63

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 12:20:21 PM

HansBolter

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I would like to clarify two things:

1. I didn't mean to imply that I would stop posting altogether in this AAR. Just that I would stop adding to a dispute that was hijacking the AAR. I spent yesterday conversing with several forum members via PM in an effort to avoid polluting this AAR any further.

2. My stated reason for not participating in PBEM play is only a small part of the picture. I am a 62 year old architect whose work typically leaves me so brain fried by the end of a day that I cannot even contemplate firing up the game that evening. I typically don't get more than one or two turns done during a work week. The bulk of my gaming comes in weekend marathon sessions. I could not possibly commit to any kind of a reasonable turn around and manage to keep a PBEM opponent happy. I also suffer from a huge guilt complex and would not be able to live with myself for letting someone down. Unfortunately, this is also what drives me to be so condemning of those who "pick up their toys and go home" when things stop going their way. I simply have no respect whatsoever for people like that. I also willingly admit that I use the "sour taste" experience with PBEM way to much in response to those lauding the pros. I just can't resist the urge to point out the cons. Perhaps, in 4.5 years, when I can retire, I may take up both the challenge and the risk of PBEM play. Until that time, all entreaties for me to give it a try will be for naught.

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Hans

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Post #: 64

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 12:44:08 PM

Canoerebel

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I thought you were a 97-year-old veteran of the Wehrmacht....

You better go ahead and retire. When you do begin a PBEM, you'll find that the difference is a vast as that between dating Charlize Theron and kissing a plastic, blow-up likeness of her.

P.S. That's the best analogy I've ever made.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 65

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 2:59:31 PM

HansBolter

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Not sure how old Hans would be now.

I joined this forum before I got caught up in the UV/WITP/AE universe and is the reason why I don't have a Pacific themed avatar.

I was playing and playtesting a real time tactical game engine that was eventually titled Command Ops, which is no longer available through Matrix.

I have always been a huge fan of WWII Eastern Front games and decided to take on the moniker of one of my favorite soldiers who fought on that front.

Hans Bolter was one of the top Tiger tank aces of the war, serving in the 502nd Schwere Panzer Abtielung on the Leningrad Front.
His exploits were featured in Paul Carel's works Hitler Moves East and Scorched Earth.

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Hans

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Post #: 66

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 3:08:45 PM

RangerJoe

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He is lucky that my avatar did not get him in her sights . . .

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Post #: 67

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 3:46:33 PM

Cheesesteak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I thought you were a 97-year-old veteran of the Wehrmacht....

You better go ahead and retire. When you do begin a PBEM, you'll find that the difference is a vast as that between dating Charlize Theron and kissing a plastic, blow-up likeness of her.

P.S. That's the best analogy I've ever made.

Kissing Charlize before or after she eats hot wings? This channel is a youtube gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgQMW4eVrzw

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Post #: 68

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 3:59:39 PM

Canoerebel

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If her eyes were clearly saying, "Kiss me, you robust and virtuous dude!" would any Forumite stop to ask Charlize if she'd eaten hot wings?

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Post #: 69

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 4:28:20 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If her eyes were clearly saying, "Kiss me, you robust and virtuous dude!" would any Forumite stop to ask Charlize if she'd eaten hot wings?

I doubt she would have to say that - a southern gentleman such as yourself would surely volunteer to lick the heat away to ease her suffering - no need to thank you! And afterwards ...

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 70

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 4:35:42 PM

Canoerebel

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Post #: 71

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 6:13:23 PM

RangerJoe

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To ease her suffering, have her eat bread and then have her rinse with ambesol . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 72

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 6:13:38 PM

Cheesesteak

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Suva reinforcement TF is being diverted to Sydney, while the British reinforcements head to Ceylon/India proper. Few operational decisions to be made at this point. Paraphrasing a past comment: hopefully our esteemed opponent will look at the post count and assume we have come up with a comprehensive plan. Something like:

Saratoga and Lady Lex will provide initial air cover for multiple landings in the Kuriles. Amphibious forces will consist of 1 sep regiment, 3 base forces, a Marine raider battalion, and 800 M1A1 Abrams tanks. Now, just waiting for one of those components to come on map...

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Post #: 73

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/17/2019 6:23:27 PM

RangerJoe

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Don't forget the Nimitz . . .

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

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Post #: 74

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 3:50:31 AM

aaffins

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Bit late to the party here, was on vacation last week. As the person primarily responsible for agreeing to these rules I have a couple of thoughts (keep in mind I'm coming at this from perspective of someone that has spent ~90% of their time in this game playing Japan):

1. It's difficult to establish rules before a game without violating OPSEC. I like that Chickenboy is upfront with his opponents about his intentions, but I felt it was inappropriate to ask for details of our opponent's first turn plans. He mentioned wanting to play an "ahistorical" game, but that leaves an enormous range of outcomes.
2. Considering the time investment of an IJ player in Turn 1, it's very difficult to quibble with an opening move unless it's something truly game changing. Whilst I don't really agree with Yamaguchi's choices, as they're clearly based on a careful study of the Allied disposition and designed to maximize what can be accomplished on turn one, I want to have a game, not a historical debate.
3. [WARNING JFB BIAS] Realistically speaking what can he do that's so terrible? The CVs and PoW were fine after turn one (we subsequently got the PoW torpedoed but that's the result of an aggressive move by him). Sure he's probably accelerating his timeline a bit unrealistically, but I have some AWESOME toys coming to me in the next 12 months. We'll be fine.

Lots of interesting reading in this thread, thank you to everybody for your contributions. I do hope having a page per turn will result in a significant pysops advantage. Actually, I take that back. I don't hope that. Because then Cheesesteak can claim he actually is contributing. I don't think he's even opened a turn yet, just posted on the forum.

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Post #: 75

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 3:54:32 AM

Cheesesteak

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

Bit late to the party here, was on vacation last week. As the person primarily responsible for agreeing to these rules I have a couple of thoughts (keep in mind I'm coming at this from perspective of someone that has spent ~90% of their time in this game playing Japan):

1. It's difficult to establish rules before a game without violating OPSEC. I like that Chickenboy is upfront with his opponents about his intentions, but I felt it was inappropriate to ask for details of our opponent's first turn plans. He mentioned wanting to play an "ahistorical" game, but that leaves an enormous range of outcomes.
2. Considering the time investment of an IJ player in Turn 1, it's very difficult to quibble with an opening move unless it's something truly game changing. Whilst I don't really agree with Yamaguchi's choices, as they're clearly based on a careful study of the Allied disposition and designed to maximize what can be accomplished on turn one, I want to have a game, not a historical debate.
3. [WARNING JFB BIAS] Realistically speaking what can he do that's so terrible? The CVs and PoW were fine after turn one (we subsequently got the PoW torpedoed but that's the result of an aggressive move by him). Sure he's probably accelerating his timeline a bit unrealistically, but I have some AWESOME toys coming to me in the next 12 months. We'll be fine.

Lots of interesting reading in this thread, thank you to everybody for your contributions. I do hope having a page per turn will result in a significant pysops advantage. Actually, I take that back. I don't hope that. Because then Cheesesteak can claim he actually is contributing. I don't think he's even opened a turn yet, just posted on the forum.

Actually I will take that over the truth. My contribution has been to get the Danae and a few other CLs sunk!

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Post #: 76

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 4:03:27 AM

aaffins

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For those of you who are actually interested in following this theoretical AAR (presumably nobody) here's what went down on 12/10 of note:

1. The RN DDs from HK sank a loaded AMC off the Philippines, we don't know what was onboard, but sinking loaded ships = good!
2. Boise clashed with a pair for IJN CAs and gave a good account of herself. Sys and Flt Dmg is ~25 but she's deep in Indian country (middle of the Celebes Sea) with Netties now flying out of Mindanao and Manado
3. Yamaguchi sent nearly 100 unescorted Sallies over Singapore, the RAF is claiming they took down 19. This is good.
4. Our biplanes savaged some TBs off Malaysia...not ideal, but minimal losses on our side
5. The PoW is actually still alive, 1 hex off Batavia with 43/66/35 damage. I'm thinking she has an ok chance of making it in for some minor repairs, then we can sneak her out to the west and get her to a safer shipyard.
6. Yamaguchi tried a para assault on Palembang and failed...suspect more paras coming next turn so will CAP the hex.

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Post #: 77

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 4:44:10 AM

BillBrown

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I am watching, it is interesting.

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Post #: 78

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 5:08:27 AM

CaptBeefheart

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Definitely watching this one. Good luck, gents!

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 7:52:59 PM

Cheesesteak

Posts: 301
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From: Richmond, VA
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Finally, some screenshots:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/18/2019 7:58:44 PM

Cheesesteak

Posts: 301
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From: Richmond, VA
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Big Trouble

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 81

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/19/2019 7:28:40 PM

Cheesesteak

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From: Richmond, VA
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Yamaguchi messaged last night saying he would be around all day and could turn. I've been slammed at the office, and have 3 soccer games tonight. Can anybody get Nemo out of retirement for me? I'm sure Yama wouldn't mind if Nemo took a few "celebrity rounds"

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Post #: 82

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/20/2019 10:19:39 PM

aaffins

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Nothing real notable for the 12/11 turn.

PoW did make it to Batavia, planning to give her a few days to try to get the sys damage down...however Yamaguchi landed an inf regiment at Palembang, so we may need to get out soon. Base will probably fall tomorrow, but he doesn't have AV support so we should have a few days before we have to run.

Boise got hit by Nells from Mindanao, she's probably toast. We'll put into Jolo and hope.

Houston did get out, she's off Sorong. Thinking she can link up with Marblehead and friends; opponent has a SCTF in the Banda Sea we might go after, but pretty sure he's got CAs in there.

We debated adding Repulse to that TF, but although she has minimal damage her SS Radar is knocked out, so we've elected to send her to Capetown for repairs.

We detected a TF moving SW from Rabaul, I'm guessing that's a PM invasion force. I don't think he can really cover it; that'd be the edge of Betty range from Rabaul so moving the RAN + CA Pensacola to try to oppose it.

CVs are near Midway, ordered them to PH for gas, they'll link up with Saratoga there and we'll head for SoPac. We haven't seen the KB in two days, which is worrisome. Was last seen heading SW from Pearl, so I'm guessing he's routing through the Marshalls. We'll see if he uses them to support ops in SoPac/SWPAC or sends them west. Might be our first real clue about his strategic intentions.

In Malaysia he's cut off the rail line into Singapore with some sort of armored unit. I'm thinking we could use the units trapped north of there to try to punch through to Singapore. Anybody ever been able to make that work? We'd have approx a divisional strength collection of units...he's got more moving in, but he if he only sends on regiment there I figure it might work.

(in reply to Cheesesteak)

Post #: 83

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/21/2019 8:09:07 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins
...however Yamaguchi landed an inf regiment at Palembang, so we may need to get out soon. Base will probably fall tomorrow, but he doesn't have AV support so we should have a few days before we have to run.

Aww, get all your bombers in DEI to bomb Palembang oil the next turn. And continue

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Post #: 84

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/21/2019 7:06:18 PM

aaffins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins
...however Yamaguchi landed an inf regiment at Palembang, so we may need to get out soon. Base will probably fall tomorrow, but he doesn't have AV support so we should have a few days before we have to run.

Aww, get all your bombers in DEI to bomb Palembang oil the next turn. And continue

Yes, excellent point. He has some light LRCAP overhead, I think from carriers operating off Borneo, but it's light and it's not as if we have some other great thing we can use the Uglofortresses for.

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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/21/2019 7:13:08 PM

aaffins

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Don't have the turn yet, but did just get the replay. I think we might be starting to see some cracks in our opponent's play. This was to be expected, his first few turns were so airtight he clearly had gamed them out, but that's impossible to do after a certain point. We'll see if this is a blip or a trend.

Of note:
1. He seems to have an interesting habit of disbanding TFs into port as soon as they're done with their mission. There are well over 100 ships docked at Pontianak and Singakawang. Launched an attack using Hudsons from Singapore to see if we could exploit and got some hits in:

Morning Air attack on Singkawang , at 56,88

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 14

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 6 damaged
Hudson I: 2 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
xAK Koei Maru, Bomb hits 1
AO Tsurumi, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Fushimi Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAK Ryoyo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Hudson I bombing from 1000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb
2 x Hudson I bombing from 1000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

Carrier support unable to supply air cover..

2. He seems to either have insufficient supply or overlooked adding torpedoes to his Air HQs at Manado and on Mindanao, so his Netties are using bombs rather than torps.

3. He launched a shock attack at Hong Kong, resulting in a 1 to 2 which gave him 140+ squads disabled w/o reducing forts.. That probably brings the AV close enough he'll need to take a few days to recover or bring reinforcements.

Only other actions of note were a DD TF finding Boise and sinking her and a series of unescorted Nell raids on a small TF at Batavia resulting in fairly heavy casualties.

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Post #: 86

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/22/2019 3:03:41 PM

Cheesesteak

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Another interesting development. Our opponent is not afraid to chat via email regarding the game. Includes far more "intel" than I would ever share. He is either a bad poker player, or trying to make us think so. Nothing so interesting as to merit copy/pasting (yet), but it's a long game and he is giving us a way to read him.

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Post #: 87

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/22/2019 10:50:10 PM

aaffins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak

Another interesting development. Our opponent is not afraid to chat via email regarding the game. Includes far more "intel" than I would ever share. He is either a bad poker player, or trying to make us think so. Nothing so interesting as to merit copy/pasting (yet), but it's a long game and he is giving us a way to read him.

C'mon there was some great stuff in there, don't hold back:

"nice job cutting off rail at chumpon-havnt seen that happpen that early before."
Uh, you're surprised the base unit showed up on the 12th? Isn't marching that unit from Victoria Point SOP for the Allies?

"you guys have sunk a lot more of my ships than other opponents esp dds"
We've sunk precisely 2 according to intel. Three more ostensibly sunk by collision or grounding. He's running MASSIVE amphib TFs, I think that can result in increased collisions yes?

Other interesting development from the turn, most of his SCTFs seeming to be heading for home...no clue why, there's little we can do to oppose them in Scen 2 at this point. Overall odd behavior IMO.

(in reply to Cheesesteak)

Post #: 88

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 7/31/2019 7:45:45 PM

Cheesesteak

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An update (for those of you only reading this side of the AAR): the game is not dead nor on pause. Work and social life have been quite busy.

In fact, it was Aaffins birthday this past weekend! We celebrated by attempting to play two games of soccer and drink. Won the first game, then had to FF the second because we broke the house rule of having a beer before playing in our second. It turns out punishment for breaking house rules goes far beyond WITP...

Anyway, consoled ourselves with a p-35 showing- shooting down ~9 Lily's+Nells. Hah!

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Post #: 89

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 8/4/2019 8:34:50 PM

aaffins

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From: Richmond, VA
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12/20/41

There's not a great deal of note happening at the moment. After his carefully scripted opening our opponent seems to have reverted to relatively conservative tactics; only advancing under air cover either from LBA or his CVs.

Nothing so far in Burma, which has allowed us to move in significant supplies. We are embarking the 48th Gurkha Brig. from Colombo, with the intention of reconstituting the 17th Indian Div. There's obviously some risk to pushing troops forward here, but we're hoping we can surprise him with stronger than normal resistance in Burma and disrupt his timeline.

In Malaysia he's on the doorstep of Singapore with enough AV to do the job fairly quickly. Hoping we can delay for a few weeks.

In the DEI he has secured all the bases in Western Borneo and the major ones in the Celebes, but nothing on Java yet. He's been hitting mostly empty ports at Batavia and Soerbaja with the mini KB after covering a landing at Makassar.

He has ~2,500 AV at Clark in the PI, which seems excessive. For whatever reason he's decided he needs to capture that area quickly. Hard to divine what the long term intentions might be there, but we do find it odd to commit so many troops there.

KB is covering a landing of 5-6 SNLFs at Port Moresby. Not a great deal we can do to oppose that.

No action in the rest of the Pacific.

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Post #: 90

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi