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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

 
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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/21/2019 1:31:47 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The turn VAC posted my thoughts on above was 2/23

On 2/24 we did pick 'Option 3' as suggested, but the Netties from Koepang stayed home. The opponent had landed an SNLF Co. at Derby from 2 APDs, which a small Dutch SCTF we had in the area sank as they tried to retreat. Our CVs flew a strike mission against it and basically destroyed - 522 casualties. The ensuing attack against our base force got 1:99 odds.

The DD Thanet was damaged in the first week of the war and has been repairing for the last several months at Cebu. Although not fully repaired she was good enough to fight so we attacked a small TF landing troops to mop up bases in the central PI, sinking 3 PBs.

Enemy captured Toungoo with Paras, unfortunately our RAF Hurricane Recce unit was flying out of there so we've lost it. Buying back of course but that leaves us without recon in that theater.

Temuloh fell, ending Allied resistance in Malaysia.

The KB and presumed mini-KB seen in the Central Pacific a few days ago both disappeared.

2/25 - Large enemy force arrived at Singyang to try to reopen the railroad link between Hankow and the north. We've got nearly 1,600 AV there...keeping that LOC closed is valuable and it's a wooded hex so good defensive terrain. He suffers over 5,000 casualties (432 squads disabled/destroyed). He'll undoubtedly reinforce, so we're pushing some units forward from Nanyang to cut off his supply line from Chengchow/Loyang and possibly even threaten those bases if he's lightly garrisoned with Chinese puppet units.

He captured Prome by airdrop, which does cut us off at Rangoon. More problematically the BFF Brigade was there in Strat mode and got hammered. Our main units are pulling out of Rangoon already.

2/26 - Thanet hits another convoy, sinking 3 more PBs and damaging some other shipping.

Our CVs are moving back towards Perth, hammering the subs he has off NW Oz. We want him to see us heading that way as the plan is to now divert West, link up with Yorktown (just arrived at Perth) and then circle back to hit Palembang. Hope to catch a tanker convoy there and ideally damage the oil refinery.

CL Raleigh was badly damaged by a sub off NZ.


Although likely the least relevant to the campaign, the Raleigh hurts me the most. Those out of date USN CLs are my favorite ships on the map as of Dec 7. They aren't good enough for CV escort, but can still inflict massive amounts of pain, have decent range and speed, and aren't worth a ton of VP points. In past games, this has resulted in them being my go to for high risk-high reward sorties.



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Post #: 211
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 1:19:16 AM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		march 2, 1942

KB sighting

the other ships are listed as BBs and CAs. Raid in force, or prelude to invasion?




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Post #: 212
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 1:27:03 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Danger, Will Robinson.

Cheers,
CB

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Post #: 213
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 1:59:30 AM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		danger, indeed.

At least the Allies have not been idle at the edge of our map. We have 3 ancient BBs and about 9 nice DDs there, in addition to ~75 fighters and several sqdns of bombers. There's enough AV to hold, for now. Units are being repositioned and made ready. klaxons are going off.




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Post #: 214
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 2:12:16 AM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak




far too early for any determinations, but I think China is going rather well so far.

Our CVs are returning from an attempted raid on Darwin TFs, unharmed and unengaged, but far away from the SoPac action. That may be a good thing for us, I'd likely be tempted to do something foolish.

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Post #: 215
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 2:14:56 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		What kind of U.S. ground units did you send to NZ?

Cheers,
CB

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Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 216
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 2:59:26 AM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

What kind of U.S. ground units did you send to NZ?

Cheers,
CB


8th Marines, 2 regiments of the Americal Div (3rd en route) and Tank Bn. are the main combat units. Several base forces and an Arty Bn. as well.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 217
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 7:32:32 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		Let's hope it's enough. Best of luck. On the bright side, the triggered reinforcements are pretty good if he does land on NZ soil (2nd NZD, a Brit ID, two tank brigades, Brit and NZ pool additions, etc.).

EDIT: I found the thread which shows you the emergency reinforcements (many thanks to Bullwinkle, peace be upon him, for doing this work).

Cheers,
CB

< Message edited by CaptBeefheart -- 10/23/2019 7:51:57 AM >

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Post #: 218
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 11:07:21 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


far too early for any determinations, but I think China is going rather well so far.




Kind of well.

She of your defensive positions look great, as the troops on the approaches to Sian and Changsha dug in x3 terrain. I question the units in the clear though, since they'll be meat once air raids hit them and if any units approach. Best to get them into rear areas to start digging the next layer or in river crossing hexes with good terrain.

I would never reinforce Nanchang as it's a clear hex, and if the IJA are bringing enough, bombing the troops there, they should blast the Chinese to pieces.

Additionally, you don't need to put blockers in non-road hexes in good terrain. If he starts moving there you have plenty of time to adjust your troops to defend a hex back. You want to encourage the IJA to take time, go offload, lengthen supply lines and make their process as difficult as possible.

I've added white lines for hexes that should have troops digging, some of which you do have already in place, some in which you don't.




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Post #: 219
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 2:45:34 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


far too early for any determinations, but I think China is going rather well so far.




Kind of well.

She of your defensive positions look great, as the troops on the approaches to Sian and Changsha dug in x3 terrain. I question the units in the clear though, since they'll be meat once air raids hit them and if any units approach. Best to get them into rear areas to start digging the next layer or in river crossing hexes with good terrain.

I would never reinforce Nanchang as it's a clear hex, and if the IJA are bringing enough, bombing the troops there, they should blast the Chinese to pieces.

Additionally, you don't need to put blockers in non-road hexes in good terrain. If he starts moving there you have plenty of time to adjust your troops to defend a hex back. You want to encourage the IJA to take time, go offload, lengthen supply lines and make their process as difficult as possible.

I've added white lines for hexes that should have troops digging, some of which you do have already in place, some in which you don't.





Immensely helpful, thx Obvert. I assume this AAR is painful reading for the pros. Pictures of dogs and beer hopefully help.

I was out of the loop on this game for a few weeks while traveling, and Fins did a great job holding down the fort and more. We definitely have different mindsets about some things.

Regarding China, I sent him Alfred's discussion on China, and think we will be following that fairly closely. Your visual cues hammer home the point.

Question: Does anyone here have a passion (read: compulsion) to keep ships together based on national affiliation? I came back to the game and noticed some odd TFs and dispositions. After ranting and raving so much I broke Discord chat, Fins eventually let it slip: he refuses to combine Aussie and USN ships together. The Perth was linked with one of the CAs rather than the Marblehead, etc.

Shamelessly used this opportunity with Fins to point out, while much better at the overall game, this is precisely why I dominated surface engagements.

Also, can someone please finger wag for us letting Pearl have ~220k fuel and ~170k supplies. UGhhhhhh

Cinematic depiction of my rant:

< Message edited by Cheesesteak -- 10/23/2019 2:51:02 PM >

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Post #: 220
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 2:47:03 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


Cinematic depiction of my rant:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 221
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/23/2019 11:56:55 PM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.

< Message edited by aaffins -- 10/23/2019 11:57:16 PM >

(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 222
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 12:23:16 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.

IRL, wasn't CL Perth sailing as part of a US TF when it was sunk? Ditto for CA Canberra! Maybe that's the real reason why it is a no-no in his game - sailing with the USN is bad joss!

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 223
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 1:32:19 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		RAN and USN ships sailed together all the time in SoPac and SWPAC. In ADBA toss in the RN and Dutch as well. Mixing it up has plenty of historical basis.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 1:55:04 AM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.



We've got logistics coming out of ears!






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Post #: 225
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 2:36:52 AM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		End of March, 1942 updates...here's the aircraft losses so far. I think these are in our favor.




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(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 226
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 2:46:17 AM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		And here's the ships sunk report. This is clearly not great for us.




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< Message edited by aaffins -- 10/24/2019 2:48:49 AM >

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Post #: 227
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 2:56:57 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.

IRL, wasn't CL Perth sailing as part of a US TF when it was sunk? Ditto for CA Canberra! Maybe that's the real reason why it is a no-no in his game - sailing with the USN is bad joss!


Yes, Perth was with Houston for their final dance in the Sunda Strait.
After Coral Sea, the RAN cruisers and modern destroyers were regularly embedded in 7th Fleet task forces.

Here is an example of TF44:
At the start of May, the Americans learned of an imminent Japanese invasion of Port Moresby, and Hobart was sent with HMAS Australia to rendezvous with United States forces in the Coral Sea. At 07:00 on 7 May, Rear Admiral Crace, embarked aboard Australia as commander of Task Force 44, was ordered to take his ships (Australia, Hobart, US cruiser Chicago, and US destroyers Perkins, Walke, and Farragut) to the Jomard Passage, and engage any Japanese ships found en route to Port Moresby, while several US carrier groups engaged a Japanese force headed for the Solomon Islands.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 10/24/2019 3:04:56 AM >

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 228
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/24/2019 2:57:40 AM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		My overall thinking is that this is kind of a weird game. To this point we haven't really felt truly stretched or pushed, but by the same token here we are barely into March of '42 and he's got us at a 2.5:1 VP ratio. Our opponent takes great care with his capital ships. I don't feel I'm a particularly conservative players and Cheesesteak definitely is not, but there just haven't been many good opportunities to do damage.

I'm eager to see if our opponent will launch an aggressive move before the amphib bonus expires. He will have Soerbaja wrapped up in the next week or so. Then he'll have quite a significant number of troops available.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 229
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 1:14:15 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Ever heard of the ABDA command, Dutch naval admiral in charge of Dutch, US, OZ and US ships? It didn't work out all that well.

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 230
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 3:07:12 AM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.

IRL, wasn't CL Perth sailing as part of a US TF when it was sunk? Ditto for CA Canberra! Maybe that's the real reason why it is a no-no in his game - sailing with the USN is bad joss!


Yes, Perth was with Houston for their final dance in the Sunda Strait.
After Coral Sea, the RAN cruisers and modern destroyers were regularly embedded in 7th Fleet task forces.

Here is an example of TF44:
At the start of May, the Americans learned of an imminent Japanese invasion of Port Moresby, and Hobart was sent with HMAS Australia to rendezvous with United States forces in the Coral Sea. At 07:00 on 7 May, Rear Admiral Crace, embarked aboard Australia as commander of Task Force 44, was ordered to take his ships (Australia, Hobart, US cruiser Chicago, and US destroyers Perkins, Walke, and Farragut) to the Jomard Passage, and engage any Japanese ships found en route to Port Moresby, while several US carrier groups engaged a Japanese force headed for the Solomon Islands.


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 231
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 3:40:36 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		TF44 under command RADM Crace, RN at that!
Crace doesn’t have the best stats in game, and the TF would probably default to USN command with a US CA in it.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 10/25/2019 3:42:06 AM >

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(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 232
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 4:05:57 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.


1) Don't ever look for logic in my commentary
2) If one more of our CAs or CLs goes out without 2-3 DDs per cruiser, there may be a friendly fire incident in our next soccer game.






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Post #: 233
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 5:41:27 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.



We've got logistics coming out of ears!








He came very, very close to stealing that movie right out from under Eastwood and Sutherland.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 234
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/25/2019 7:26:18 PM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.


1) Don't ever look for logic in my commentary
2) If one more of our CAs or CLs goes out without 2-3 DDs per cruiser, there may be a friendly fire incident in our next soccer game.




Which one of you is Kieron Dyer / Lee Bowyer?






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 10/26/2019 3:37:45 AM >

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 235
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/26/2019 2:13:28 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Hey he kick the ball/s.

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 236
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/26/2019 12:41:23 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins

The Perth and the Australia were sailing with the US CA Louisville and US DDs. This apparently is a mortal sin.

I also hope everyone appreciates the irony of a guy who makes the theme of his AAR Kelly's Heroes kvetching about logistics.

IRL, wasn't CL Perth sailing as part of a US TF when it was sunk? Ditto for CA Canberra! Maybe that's the real reason why it is a no-no in his game - sailing with the USN is bad joss!


Yes, Perth was with Houston for their final dance in the Sunda Strait.
After Coral Sea, the RAN cruisers and modern destroyers were regularly embedded in 7th Fleet task forces.

Here is an example of TF44:
At the start of May, the Americans learned of an imminent Japanese invasion of Port Moresby, and Hobart was sent with HMAS Australia to rendezvous with United States forces in the Coral Sea. At 07:00 on 7 May, Rear Admiral Crace, embarked aboard Australia as commander of Task Force 44, was ordered to take his ships (Australia, Hobart, US cruiser Chicago, and US destroyers Perkins, Walke, and Farragut) to the Jomard Passage, and engage any Japanese ships found en route to Port Moresby, while several US carrier groups engaged a Japanese force headed for the Solomon Islands.


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.


First of all you guys need to work out some Allied doctrine and stop playing Helfrich vs Wavell vs Hart in the ABDA.

Secondly, judging by your sunk ship list it's probably best to back off until you have a clear idea of what's coming before committing any more of your CA/CL regardless of nationality or TF composition.

A good rule is matching gun caliber and range. Sister ships are perfect of course to sail together, but even ships of different nationality and type can work well if they're matched for modernity, speed, gun range, torpedo range and especially if you're adding one due to something special like surface radar or AA package.

At night you might consider smaller TFs, so actually a greater high/low mix of cruisers/DD. I often use 3-4 CA/CL with 4 DD for night engagements as eight total has been shown to be more efficient (about this many actually engage effectively at night but rarely more) and then you can have more total TFs as well to wear down the opponents.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 237
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/26/2019 3:45:59 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.


1) Don't ever look for logic in my commentary
2) If one more of our CAs or CLs goes out without 2-3 DDs per cruiser, there may be a friendly fire incident in our next soccer game.




Which one of you is Kieron Dyer / Lee Bowyer?







Prolly Dyer here.

_____________________________

"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 238
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/26/2019 5:29:34 PM   
aaffins

 

Posts: 254
Joined: 3/7/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaffins


So, to clarify, Cheesesteak is excoriating me for having a TF with essentially the same composition as historical TF 44.


1) Don't ever look for logic in my commentary
2) If one more of our CAs or CLs goes out without 2-3 DDs per cruiser, there may be a friendly fire incident in our next soccer game.




Which one of you is Kieron Dyer / Lee Bowyer?







Prolly Dyer here.


Agreed, I'm much closer to Bowyer

(in reply to Cheesesteak)
Post #: 239
RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesest... - 10/28/2019 2:02:48 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Is that a bunch of refs fighting?

(in reply to aaffins)
Post #: 240
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