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RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/1/2019 5:08:27 PM   
Zovs


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From: United States
Status: offline 		I think she means paper maps as opposed to mounted maps. AH mostly created mounted maps to their demise. SPI set the standard with non-mounted maps (aka paper maps).

Paper maps is the only way to go.

ASL uses thicker hard paper maps but no one uses mounted maps any more it’s too expensive.

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Post #: 61
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/1/2019 5:50:16 PM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Challerain

I'd have to disagree with the not many games sold on boards comment. Lots of top notch stuff being released by Compass, GMT, MMP among others.


As was observed after the above comment. Boards means BOARDS. A paper map is cheaper and less costly of course, and more realistic for marketing and shipping. And most gamers will just place plexiglass over a mapsheet. ASL has gone to using a rigid card stock, not paper, but not fully rigid. And once you have like 60+ boards, them things get heavy.

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Post #: 62
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/1/2019 5:57:20 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Yeah, lol. I still have my original like 45 or so hard mounted geo's plus both HH and SoF DASL hard maps. Plus the 70 or so hard stock. Plus all the HASL ones...what a mess, but the rule book out weights them all...lol

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Post #: 63
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/2/2019 1:44:16 PM   
Challerain

 

Posts: 270
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From: Mansfield, Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Challerain

I'd have to disagree with the not many games sold on boards comment. Lots of top notch stuff being released by Compass, GMT, MMP among others.


As was observed after the above comment. Boards means BOARDS. A paper map is cheaper and less costly of course, and more realistic for marketing and shipping. And most gamers will just place plexiglass over a mapsheet. ASL has gone to using a rigid card stock, not paper, but not fully rigid. And once you have like 60+ boards, them things get heavy.


Sorry, my bad.

One thing I have noticed is that GMT is putting mounted maps on P500 for those that want to pay extra. Picked them up for Holland '44.

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Post #: 64
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/2/2019 4:06:32 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
Status: offline 		There are a pair of new pics and videos, but this is the most interesting because shows game moving... a kitty fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBf_MjnLcp8

I like destroy a vehicle could leave a crew in battlefield (if game offer a campaign mode even loosing a vehicle you could try save crew to fight other day) and the slow shell effect when is a kill... because i understand that when you see the shell it is going to hurt

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Post #: 65
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/2/2019 5:55:17 PM   
Infierno


Posts: 102
Joined: 4/30/2017
Status: offline 		This game is looking very promising. Like a mix between ASL and Steel Panthers. Love the look of it!

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Post #: 66
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/15/2019 5:30:38 PM   
DownNOut


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Status: offline 		Another new video was posted.

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Post #: 67
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 12:56:37 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

There are a pair of new pics and videos, but this is the most interesting because shows game moving... a kitty fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBf_MjnLcp8

I like destroy a vehicle could leave a crew in battlefield (if game offer a campaign mode even loosing a vehicle you could try save crew to fight other day) and the slow shell effect when is a kill... because i understand that when you see the shell it is going to hurt



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Post #: 68
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 1:30:23 AM   
demyansk


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Status: offline 		I like the way it looks, sort of a Battle Academy.

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Post #: 69
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 1:40:27 AM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demyansk

I like the way it looks, sort of a Battle Academy.


Yeah, I mean, every time I hear the term "cartoony" I nearly want to scream.

I think Battle Academy has been about the most innovative design wargaming has been in 20 years.
In 20 years, everyone and their grandma has made wargames that look like yet another nato counter image using concept. And regardless of how awesome some might think Gary's games are, the truth is, it IS just more of the same.

Second Front might well completely blow us away the way Steel Panthers once did.

I don't mind top-down tactical graphics. But what is the point of beating that to death if our computers have so much more processing power today? The graphics I'm seeing in this game, are really fun looking.

Our wargames do NOT have to be sterile-looking boredom magnets.

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Post #: 70
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 1:57:46 AM   
RangerJoe


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Status: offline 		I would like a game to be challenging even if with "poor" graphics. I would hate a game with nice graphics if it was hard to use, and not challenging.

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Post #: 71
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 3:08:40 AM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I would like a game to be challenging even if with "poor" graphics. I would hate a game with nice graphics if it was hard to use, and not challenging.


That's kinda vague. Challenging vs the AI? Considering that AI as it exists in wargaming is lucky to better than a distracted 6-year-old how could it be challenging to begin with. Challenging vs a human. Well, that depends on your human opponent. I've played simple games to run, against humans, capable wargaming humans, and they are not always a challenge. It's not always about the game.

The main challenge with a game like Gary's War in the East, is getting a human opponent who has enough time to play it. That's nothing to do with the games graphics of course. It's all about the game's design as a whole. A turn in Battle Academy is at best a 5 minute pause while your human opponent does their turn. There's no real challenge to finishing the game in a single sitting, providing your opponent chose a moment when they had an hour to play to start with. In the past, I've played 5 separate battles vs 5 separate persons all at the same time. And that's no real challenge. At least not to me. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to try that with Gary's titles. No one has THAT much time.

I wanted to like Tigers on the Hunt. But the thing is, the interface is just not well thought out. It's just not relevant how much the design has emulated the target original game. The only challenge to it seems to be liking the interface.

I could say much the same about World in Flames. Nice hard cover books though.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 72
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/16/2019 3:48:09 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Right now, I only play against the AI due to various reasons. But I do plan on playing PBEM. I have played face to face board games as well as hot seat computer games. I can play all day if I want to.

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Post #: 73
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/18/2019 11:48:31 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
ASL uses thicker hard paper maps but no one uses mounted maps any more it’s too expensive.


Unless you are the World in Flames Collector's Edition

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 8/18/2019 11:49:25 AM >

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Post #: 74
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/19/2019 3:13:28 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer


quote:

ORIGINAL: demyansk

I like the way it looks, sort of a Battle Academy.



I don't mind top-down tactical graphics. But what is the point of beating that to death if our computers have so much more processing power today? The graphics I'm seeing in this game, are really fun looking.

Our wargames do NOT have to be sterile-looking boredom magnets.


My thoughts exactly. Though some of my fav maps are top down 2D. So that look can be visually amazing. Some stunners out there, three off the top of my head are Bloody April by GMT map, GD'42 and Streets of Stalingrad map ( scenario mod for Battlefront game by SSG has a cracking Stalingrad map based on Streets of Stalingrad, I always think its such a waste that map, a game should be based on it with AI).


< Message edited by wodin -- 8/19/2019 3:20:24 PM >

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Post #: 75
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/19/2019 11:24:40 PM   
IslandInland


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Joined: 12/8/2014
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Status: offline 		I want 2D graphics in my wargames. I guess I'm old school.



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Post #: 76
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/20/2019 6:14:03 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I think Battle Academy has been about the most innovative design wargaming has been in 20 years.
In 20 years, everyone and their grandma has made wargames that look like yet another nato counter image using concept.


I think that Combat Mission beat Battle Academy in moving on from 2D to 3D graphics. And naval war games like Fighting Steel already sported 3D in the ‘90s.

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Post #: 77
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/20/2019 6:29:06 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Status: offline 		Yeah, but Battle Academy is a dozen times better a game.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 78
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/21/2019 2:02:38 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		I don't know if Battle Mission is better than Combat Academy in the race at the best wargames.
I know a lot of wargames(especially those without editor) are far away.


< Message edited by rico21 -- 8/21/2019 2:04:05 PM >

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Post #: 79
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/21/2019 7:48:17 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Joined: 6/18/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

I don't know if Battle Mission is better than Combat Academy in the race at the best wargames.
I know a lot of wargames(especially those without editor) are far away.



Yeah, but they are board games that don't use moronic AIs :)

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
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Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 80
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/22/2019 12:37:58 PM   
RFalvo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

I don't know if Battle Mission is better than Combat Academy in the race at the best wargames.


Also, we are not debating about the quality of a game, but about the ability to create war game that moved away from the traditional 2D/Hex'n'Counters. In this, Battlefront was out of the gate well before Battle Academy - end of the story. The rest is... well, academy.

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Post #: 81
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/22/2019 1:39:56 PM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69


quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

I don't know if Battle Mission is better than Combat Academy in the race at the best wargames.


Also, we are not debating about the quality of a game, but about the ability to create war game that moved away from the traditional 2D/Hex'n'Counters. In this, Battlefront was out of the gate well before Battle Academy - end of the story. The rest is... well, academy.


Well, I haven't been debating who did what first, I've been debating who did what best.

Combat Mission as it stands today is much evolved since day one. I'll grant that.
The way the product is sold though, has ensured I couldn't care less.

And I still consider Battle Academy the more enjoyable experience. Between the two.

I'm thinking though, Second Front will exceed Steel Panthers and Combat Mission and Battle Academy regardless of their features. But that's on the basis of it delivering what I've been wanting for the last 20+ years.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 82
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/23/2019 2:28:04 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

And I still consider Battle Academy the more enjoyable experience. Between the two.

I'm thinking though, Second Front will exceed Steel Panthers and Combat Mission and Battle Academy regardless of their features. But that's on the basis of it delivering what I've been wanting for the last 20+ years.


Thank you MrsWargamer, I have just installed the demo of Battle Academy to try. And, this is really funny. I think I will buy the whole series now.

The 3D view of the battlefield is something I like particularly in a tactical wargame. And, in Battle Academy, there is even a top down view if needed. I hope the future Steel Tigers will adopt the same approach to please 2D/3D players.

PS: Nice new avatar

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Post #: 83
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/23/2019 6:39:36 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		Cool (about liking BA).

I'm happy to say I helped beta it.
I own the whole kit and kaboodle too.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 84
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/23/2019 7:42:29 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		OK not sure how this news will go down but so far it's a Steam release only.



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Post #: 85
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/24/2019 12:40:29 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
OK not sure how this news will go down but so far it's a Steam release only.

I don't like Steam at all, but always ready to make an exception for the right game

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Post #: 86
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/24/2019 1:19:11 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Cool (about liking BA).

I'm happy to say I helped beta it.
I own the whole kit and kaboodle too.


Surprisingly, tactics in this game is good. The tanks alone have no chance. You have to do things right with each units. I like this.

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Post #: 87
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/24/2019 2:51:06 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		Steam sucks, but so doesn't getting old and a range of other things hehe.

In the end, we get the things we want, and deal with the hurdles we meet.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 88
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/24/2019 3:03:45 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
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Status: offline 		not sure why people don't like steam, to me it's just another gaming place, love it hate it, if something is only on there i grab it, if not i grab a site version etc, as long as it plays and can be updated or fixed if broken, i careless where it's at, as long as the price it right, i enjoy the game, and it's not so broken i feel like i'm testing it, with regards to Second Front, the beta is coming to steam asap, not sure if it will be EA or just a closed or open Beta, but the developer isn't going with the PUBLISHER:
Lock 'n Load Publishing, but under the Hexdraw label i hear, but maybe wrong, as i'm old and forgetful but once the Beta is out of the way, a kickstarter campaign maybe started

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Post #: 89
RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) - 8/24/2019 10:57:20 PM   
Hexagon


Posts: 1133
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Status: offline 		I dont have problems with solo Steam but i prefer have to the "offline" installer and dont be 100% dependent of Steam, is one of the good things with Slitherine-Matrix.

I see a beta in Steam like a very good idea because:

1- he only needs care about upload updates to Steam
2- a single area to talk about beta and release info for beta testers and receive feedback
3- you can control who is in beta
4- if we have it earlier to have game faster much better

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Post #: 90
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