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Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men

 
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Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 7/22/2019 5:17:15 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		There's not one scenario designed for this game that doesn't have my name on it--why's that?

For those of you out there that support this game system, what is missing from your editor requirements that keep you from your creative endeavors? The WEGO system either works well or it doesn't. No new scenarios after over a year means we don't have it right. What are we missing? Spell it out so we have something to work with. Thanks in advance for your input.

Clueless in Kansas (and maybe in Ireland).

v/r

bcgames

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 7/25/2019 1:26:02 PM   
Okayrun3254


Posts: 173
Joined: 8/28/2014
Status: offline 		I don't care to design scenarios, so I have not used the editor feature in any games I have purchased over the years.

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 2
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 7/26/2019 7:42:37 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254

I don't care to design scenarios, so I have not used the editor feature in any games I have purchased over the years.

A fair point now that I think about it; though available, I too don't use the included editor in most (almost all) computer games I own.

Epiphany--the times have changed. The editor isn't really essential for the success of a computer wargame; it really is just a nice-to-have item. Therefore, the coding effort placed on the editor should focus on supporting the scenario designer's requirements to get the job done--a published game on the topic at hand.

Thanks for this inspiration!

Onwards!

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 7/26/2019 8:50:10 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		It depends, I use the editors in Steel Panthers and in TOAW to create scenarios exclusively. I don’t own this game (yet) so can’t say much here.

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Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

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Post #: 4
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 7/28/2019 5:37:12 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

It depends, I use the editors in Steel Panthers and in TOAW to create scenarios exclusively. I don’t own this game (yet) so can’t say much here.

I think the mod/build scenario game culture for hex-based games is receding; it'll always exist--but less so from here on out. Something new and fresh will come about in it's own time--sooner rather than later. And old school will go on till it doesn't. Find the new path...

Onwards!

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/3/2019 4:57:19 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		Great hex-based scenario development/discussion I'm following here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4388146&mpage=3&key=

Check it out. TOAW-IV...Hex on!

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/5/2019 10:01:28 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi bcgames,

I tried to work out some maps (expanding your Tunisia effort and tried to do a map around Yartsevo - Vyazma).

I found two challenges. One which is foundational, the other a problem with the user interface.

First the user interface one. Maybe Command Ops (released in 2010) spoilt me, but when I need to draw a road network, rivers, streams or even forests, fields, I think in terms of shapes: lines and polygons. Calculating lines and polygons intersections with hexagons is not hard, is just algebra (and you can use off the shelf stuff like CGAL). From that you can actually ask the user to decide what to do with hexes for which the dominant terrain / features cannot be decided algorithmically.

In 2019 I find little reason to force onto people to produce pure geomorphic maps: easy to implement but hard and time consuming to create content which approximates reality, unlike 99% of TOAW maps which are as realistic as Tolkien's Middle Earth maps.

The second issue is that you guys could get away well with abstracting away altitude in a Desert game. On more hilly areas, like Central Russia, Korsun, Bulge etc to name a few "classics", or Italy, the effect of "hilly" terrain looks odd and the game effects are suspect. That I understand is a foundational issue which only is adressed, at the operational level, by Tiller and the Command Ops games, which get this totally right.

< Message edited by BletchleyGeek -- 8/5/2019 10:04:56 AM >

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/7/2019 1:20:42 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback. Thought provoking...still mulling things about.

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/7/2019 1:38:17 AM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		No worries, bcgames. Always interested by your work :)

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Post #: 9
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/19/2019 11:51:55 PM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		More coming...

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 8/28/2019 4:52:44 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		Looks like I'm the bag-holder for creating new Desert War scenarios; so let's get to it. Thinking about either 1st Battle of Gazala (Dec-Jan 1942), or Rommel's "Backhand Blow" (Jan-Feb 1942). What sounds most interesting to you?

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Post #: 11
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 10/8/2019 1:47:17 AM   
bigus


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline 		I can't get the supply to work in the editor.
My units always start isolated no matter what I do.
What is the process for adding supply sources in the editor?

Edit: I figured it out.
I had to put a range in the army table for the HQ's

Cheers,


< Message edited by bigus -- 10/8/2019 2:02:33 AM >

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 10/9/2019 12:48:10 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		Drive on!

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/8/2019 5:52:50 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline 		I'm sittin' here on the cooled plains of Kansas contemplating my next "hobby scenario" for Desert War. Salerno is in the can...I got all these books on The Med...and sometimes I need a break from The Russian Front. What to do? Tunisia? Oh Hell no--folks gotta pay for that. Sicily or Italy? That's what I'm thinking. People only play this theater if it's free. So--what say you? My next hobby scenario will take place in Sicily or in Italy (call it Anzio maybe...dunno). What are your druthers?

Whoa...Cowboy! Backspace, backspace, backspace... Read again--My next hobby scenario will take place in Sicily or in Italy. What are your druthers?

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/8/2019 3:05:31 PM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
Status: offline 		Monte Cassino. Great work bcgames. I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

< Message edited by GibClaret80 -- 12/8/2019 3:17:59 PM >

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RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 1:19:10 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 2527
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Bramble Rose Farm, KS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.

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Post #: 16
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 9:43:02 AM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.


Brilliant

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Post #: 17
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 12:46:48 PM   
Okayrun3254


Posts: 173
Joined: 8/28/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.


I am late getting my vote in, but for the record, I like Anzio. Always fascinated with this situation. I think the Allies did not commit enough troops to be successful. If it had been successful, that could have been a game changer. It would be interesting to see a couple of what if's, like a extra infantry division, or tank battalion for the Allies. Since Anzio was tied with an offensive from the south, maybe someday a combined Cassino/Anzio scenario.

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 18
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 1:33:36 PM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254


quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.


I am late getting my vote in, but for the record, I like Anzio. Always fascinated with this situation. I think the Allies did not commit enough troops to be successful. If it had been successful, that could have been a game changer. It would be interesting to see a couple of what if's, like a extra infantry division, or tank battalion for the Allies. Since Anzio was tied with an offensive from the south, maybe someday a combined Cassino/Anzio scenario.


Sounds good to me. Anzio the U.S. general wouldn't commit his troops after a recon said it was clear so he dug in giving the germans time to deploy there forces against them.

< Message edited by GibClaret80 -- 12/9/2019 1:34:59 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 5:35:52 PM   
Okayrun3254


Posts: 173
Joined: 8/28/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254


quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.


I am late getting my vote in, but for the record, I like Anzio. Always fascinated with this situation. I think the Allies did not commit enough troops to be successful. If it had been successful, that could have been a game changer. It would be interesting to see a couple of what if's, like a extra infantry division, or tank battalion for the Allies. Since Anzio was tied with an offensive from the south, maybe someday a combined Cassino/Anzio scenario.


Sounds good to me. Anzio the U.S. general wouldn't commit his troops after a recon said it was clear so he dug in giving the germans time to deploy there forces against them.


I agree that General Lucas was too conservative, but I wonder if even an aggressive General would have been successful, or if Anzio was setup for failure. Only two divisions were used in the initial landing, and no reserve division like Salerno. The Germans responded with 4+ divisions within weeks. I wonder if a more aggressive General would have been strung out too far and overrun. I think for the Anzio landings to be a success, you need a more aggressive US General, a extra infantry division, and at least a CCA ready to land within the first week. I don't know about the naval fire support at Anzio, but that would also be as important as in Salerno, and also air support. A successful Anzio could have made the Germans pull back from Cassino.

(in reply to GibClaret80)
Post #: 20
RE: Desert War: No Scenarios for Old Men - 12/9/2019 6:37:00 PM   
GibClaret80

 

Posts: 109
Joined: 9/22/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okayrun3254


quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: GibClaret80

Monte Cassino....I wouldn't be confident enough to make scenarios but would love to. I did see you start out how to make one ?? But a step by step guide on a small scenario would be fantastic.

I think Monte Cassino is a great idea. Hadn't even considered it. I am decided.


I am late getting my vote in, but for the record, I like Anzio. Always fascinated with this situation. I think the Allies did not commit enough troops to be successful. If it had been successful, that could have been a game changer. It would be interesting to see a couple of what if's, like a extra infantry division, or tank battalion for the Allies. Since Anzio was tied with an offensive from the south, maybe someday a combined Cassino/Anzio scenario.


Sounds good to me. Anzio the U.S. general wouldn't commit his troops after a recon said it was clear so he dug in giving the germans time to deploy there forces against them.


I agree that General Lucas was too conservative, but I wonder if even an aggressive General would have been successful, or if Anzio was setup for failure. Only two divisions were used in the initial landing, and no reserve division like Salerno. The Germans responded with 4+ divisions within weeks. I wonder if a more aggressive General would have been strung out too far and overrun. I think for the Anzio landings to be a success, you need a more aggressive US General, a extra infantry division, and at least a CCA ready to land within the first week. I don't know about the naval fire support at Anzio, but that would also be as important as in Salerno, and also air support. A successful Anzio could have made the Germans pull back from Cassino.


It would be good to see how it would be like in a scenario as the American's were virtually unopposed when landing.

(in reply to Okayrun3254)
Post #: 21
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