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- 6/29/2001 5:01:00 AM

Arto

Posts: 100
Joined: 3/9/2001
From: Suomusj�rvi, Finland
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by DataKing: The Germans fought against Poland, Norway, The Low Countries, France, England, America, Russia, and the Balkan countries. No other option gives you such a wide array of opponents.

(Did somebody already correct this?) And Germans fought against the Finns too. After Finland and Soviet Union signed peace -44 Finns had to get the Germans away from Lappland. Germans didn�t leave as fast as the Soviet Union would have wanted and Finns had to start a new war, The War of Lappland. I�m so patriotic that I have to play as Finns. But I like to play WWII campaign so I have to play as Germans. Finland is quite good country, we stopped twice Red-Armys major assault and bet the Germans and stayed indepented. :D

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Post #: 91

- 6/29/2001 5:48:00 PM

Del

Posts: 123
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Central USA
Status: offline

quote:

Give me a Wolverine any day. I like them dogs too.

Uh...a Wolverine is not a dog. It's from the same family as weasels, polecats and skunks. It is a bad tempered squat, nasty, intelligent ball of fury. DO NOT say, "here doggy" and attempt to pet one. No self respecting Wolverine would have anything to do with a dog. ;) I like to see combat vehicles that are named after undomesticated animals. Seems the Germans did too. Not many of those in the dog world.

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Post #: 92

- 6/29/2001 8:35:00 PM

Tom Terror

Posts: 59
Joined: 6/6/2001
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Del: I like to see combat vehicles that are named after undomesticated animals. Seems the Germans did too. Not many of those in the dog world.

Are you talking about undomasticated animals in the dog world? Oh well there are: wolf, hyena, fox, dingo (ok, ex-domasticated :D )coyote, jackal, dhole. Probably they weren�t chosen to name Tanks etc. because of their natural behaviour. They don�t look as impressive as tigers, panthers and lions and some of them eat the leftovers of others... But anyhow they are usually very efficient in hunting down their prey in packs (foxes excluded), they are team worker - cats aren�t. Knowing this it is actually rather surprising that the excellent german tanks were named after cats which go hunting in the night, in the woods and (!) alone (lions excluded, but male lions do nothing anyway). ;) :D Tom

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Post #: 93

- 6/29/2001 8:42:00 PM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Del: Uh...a Wolverine is not a dog. It's from the same family as weasels, polecats and skunks. It is a bad tempered squat, nasty, intelligent ball of fury. DO NOT say, "here doggy" and attempt to pet one. No self respecting Wolverine would have anything to do with a dog. ;) I like to see combat vehicles that are named after undomesticated animals. Seems the Germans did too. Not many of those in the dog world.

Not true. Eskimos keep them as pets if they are captured when kits.

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Post #: 94

- 6/29/2001 9:27:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Tom Terror : Knowing this it is actually rather surprising that the excellent german tanks were named after cats which go hunting in the night, in the woods and (!) alone (lions excluded, but male lions do nothing anyway). The German tanks were so good they did not need such a big pack ;)

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Post #: 95

- 6/29/2001 9:46:00 PM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JTGEN: Tom Terror : Knowing this it is actually rather surprising that the excellent german tanks were named after cats which go hunting in the night, in the woods and (!) alone (lions excluded, but male lions do nothing anyway). The German tanks were so good they did not need such a big pack ;)

Which is why they lost....

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Post #: 96

- 6/29/2001 11:30:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

They lost because their industrial production capacity and the natural resource situation were not big enough against the opponents ones.

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Post #: 97

- 6/30/2001 1:57:00 AM

MalleusDei

Posts: 56
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: Baton Rouge
Status: offline

Check out rec.pets.wolverines on USENET. :)

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Post #: 98

- 6/30/2001 2:08:00 AM

AmmoSgt

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline

Come on Guys ..be nice Germany was only created in 1871 ..they are new to this international stuff .. even if you go back to the 1st Reich in 1740 the U S Contential Army used the Hessians for Practice at Trenton .. give the new Kid a break and quit sic'in yer Dogs on the kittycats .. :) :) :)

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"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

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Post #: 99

- 6/30/2001 2:33:00 AM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JTGEN: They lost because their industrial production capacity and the natural resource situation were not big enough against the opponents ones.

They lost because one panther. or Tiger cannot cope with seven shermans, or 11 T34s. Saying that the Germans were 'better' at war is kind of like saying that the Bengals are great at football. Ivan and Uncle Sam smoked Fritz. regards, sven

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Post #: 100

- 6/30/2001 2:37:00 AM

nexus

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/28/2001
From: Siegen / Germany
Status: offline

[I also play the french i like our funny looking tanks and the B1 bis is a killer with a good crew maybe the best tank at this time, try them with german tanks... good luck =) yes,one of my hardest games was a meeting engament ger vs. france at 1940. i first stormed above their positions,with some of these 20mm armed sdkfz as recons. it was a BAD surprise,which units choosed the computer oponent: 70-80% SOMUA and some chars...only a few weaker tanks and some inf. BAD surprise....with pz.III at 37mm and pz IV with short 75mm. no chance. but after 2 tries i firgured it out...just let them come to you...and postiton inf (assaulting tanks..)in woods or rough and 88�s at hilltops....my tanks just as reserve - mopping up what was left from the french glory....but still the remaining SOMUA made huge problems.... greetz frank PS: i think i faced more somuas at one time as the germans in reality in those times *g*

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Greetings Frank

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Post #: 101

- 6/30/2001 2:43:00 AM

nexus

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/28/2001
From: Siegen / Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NateD: [QB]1. Those Matilda II's in the MC are impossible! I HATE them. there are only one number you need for this one: 88!!! but don�t forget to attach some light aa guns,cause as i remember in the desert campaigns there were some air attacks from the brits.....and much of these 5 pounder gun arty firing. great prob if the comp. figures out where you stationed the 88�s.....

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Greetings Frank

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Post #: 102

- 6/30/2001 3:33:00 AM

Don

Posts: 810
Joined: 7/12/2000
From: Elk Grove, CA (near Sacramento)
Status: offline

The only problem with that, nexus, is you don't pick any of your forces in the MC! So we took the liberty of attacking with very thick-skinned tanks from all directions while not being too liberal with the mighty 88, just to make it interesting! :) (If Warrior sees this I'm sure he'll agree :D )

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Post #: 103

- 6/30/2001 12:59:00 PM

Igor

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/11/2000
Status: offline

Y'know, you don't really need 88s to deal with infantry tanks; well sited 50mm AT guns will peel them like a grape. This isn't much comfort to the Italians or the guys with doorknockers, of course...

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Post #: 104

- 6/30/2001 7:10:00 PM

nexus

Posts: 83
Joined: 6/28/2001
From: Siegen / Germany
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don: [QB]The only problem with that, nexus, is you don't pick any of your forces in the MC! So we took the liberty of attacking with very thick-skinned tanks from all directions while not being too liberal with the mighty 88, just to make it interesting! :) oh,sorry. mc means this new megacampaign,right?? i�m not familiar with it....in that campaign u can�t choose your forces??? okay,that�s realistic. in the real world this would be the case,too. commanders had to do the best out of the stuff they had. except the u.s. in 44/45. they had just all. in most battles......

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Greetings Frank

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Post #: 105

- 6/30/2001 10:11:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Sven: They lost because one panther. or Tiger cannot cope with seven shermans, or 11 T34s. Saying that the Germans were 'better' at war is kind of like saying that the Bengals are great at football. Ivan and Uncle Sam smoked Fritz. Exactly what I was saying, just an otherway to say industrial production capacity... Sorry Ammo Sgt. Personally I think of German history to the Roman times. I suppose you do not count the war of independence as US history, since there yet was no real country in there...

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Post #: 106

- 7/1/2001 1:42:00 AM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JTGEN: Sven: They lost because one panther. or Tiger cannot cope with seven shermans, or 11 T34s. Saying that the Germans were 'better' at war is kind of like saying that the Bengals are great at football. Ivan and Uncle Sam smoked Fritz. Exactly what I was saying, just an otherway to say industrial production capacity... Sorry Ammo Sgt. Personally I think of German history to the Roman times. I suppose you do not count the war of independence as US history, since there yet was no real country in there...

Sigh JTGEN you would not understand irony if it bit you. I would explain,but we would both be old and grey by the time you got it. regards, sven

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Post #: 107

- 7/2/2001 10:00:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

sven: Sigh JTGEN you would not understand irony if it bit you. I would explain,but we would both be old and grey by the time you got it. Well, I personally think of getting it. Ofcourse this is not my native language, but still your irony seems to make me the problem, not so much others. Maybe it has something to do with irony being hard to use in these posts. I can not use it myself, since most people from that side of atlantic do not get it(or maybe it is just different type of irony). And so the discussion goes to wrong paths, when people start stupid arguments because of irony in the posts. And to be honest Sven, after reading a lot of your posts, it is your irony that is not understood by so many others and several discussions have gone down the drain because of that... Nothing personal though...

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Post #: 108

- 7/2/2001 10:17:00 PM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JTGEN: sven: Sigh JTGEN you would not understand irony if it bit you. I would explain,but we would both be old and grey by the time you got it. Well, I personally think of getting it. Ofcourse this is not my native language, but still your irony seems to make me the problem, not so much others. Maybe it has something to do with irony being hard to use in these posts. I can not use it myself, since most people from that side of atlantic do not get it(or maybe it is just different type of irony). And so the discussion goes to wrong paths, when people start stupid arguments because of irony in the posts. And to be honest Sven, after reading a lot of your posts, it is your irony that is not understood by so many others and several discussions have gone down the drain because of that... Nothing personal though...

JTGEN it is NEVER personal with you. You act as though you are a teacher and we are all benighted. It gets old, and frankly dry drawn out discussions on the same thing over and over and over again are rather dull. You know more about the US than we Americans. You know more about World War 2 than guys that were there. Hell I am sure you know more about the equipment than the guys that built it. I respect that English is not your native language. I don't respect your purposeful lack of a sense of humor. I have made efforts to curb my flippancy against POWER GAMER.(you know the guy who thinks his favorite oob should be 'all elite')because I do not want to become boring myself. I cite my sources(except I must admit that 'German Fighting Recon Armored Cars in World War2'is imaginary)when that is apllicable to a point. I call spades spades though when I think that a poster is spouting BS. There is a fine balance between Gameplay and Realism that certain people attempt to abuse. There are those(and they know who they are)that will argue history when trying to help their oob, and argue 'game balance' when trying to alter an opposing oob. I am not one of those as I ALWAYS argue for historical accuracy. I believe that a game is at its best when acting as a true representation of the period.(that is my persoanl feeling) JTGEN if I offend you so may I beg you please ignore me. Many do I am sure. That is part of an open forum that I enjoy. I choose not to ignore too many people because you never know when they will have that gem of a post. I will refrain from taking up any more of your time. Have a pleasant day. regards, sven ;)

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Post #: 109

- 7/3/2001 12:21:00 AM

General Mayhem

Posts: 180
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Country of six thousand lakes and one truth
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by sven: JTGEN if I offend you so may I beg you please ignore me. Many do I am sure. That is part of an open forum that I enjoy. regards, sven ;)

Well, if so, I certainly won't want to disagree with you or notice you. As I certainly wouldn't want to take away from you pleasure of open forums. :D [ July 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]

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Post #: 110

- 7/3/2001 1:58:00 AM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by General Mayhem: Well, if so, I certainly won't want to disagree with you or notice you. As I certainly wouldn't want to take away from you pleasure of open forums. :D [ July 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Mayhem ]

Mayhem I am rather fond of freedom to post what one will as long as it is topical. The choice to ignore someone is a personal one. I seldom choose to do so. Hope to learn something from you soon. as always, sven [ July 02, 2001: Message edited by: sven ]

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Post #: 111

- 7/4/2001 1:42:00 AM

Akmatov

Posts: 495
Joined: 7/26/2000
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Nevertheless, I have always admired the Wehrmacht and I guess so has the US Army, when they adopted the Fritz helmets in the late 80s. The black berets of today, ha! Check out the early German Panzer berets. Now who are we emulating as far as dress is concerned? I have no problem with it, and given the US military's overall superiority in the world, it seems only appropriate. Also, don't forget that the best machine gun in the world is simply a copy of the old MG42. The best assault rifle? A mod of the StG44. In technology and appearance in weaponry, the Germans have led the world, and we are now adopting the best of what they had to offer.

Can't resist. 1) The current helmet was part of a whole new, and more functional, uniform transition of the mid-80's. That is when the Army got the cami battle dress uniform almost everyone now wears. The only reason for the long delay in accepting the much more protective helmet was emotional/political due to its being designed rationally and ended up looking like the raionally designed helmet the Germans have been using since WW1. As a humourous aside, in the mid-80's the US Army started wearing a Wehrmacht style helmet, cami battle dress and continued to wear their highly shined black boots (as the intended rough brown boots were rejected by the spit and polish brass). Whom did they now resemble, especially in Germany? 2) Berets, everyone in NATO wears berets. It's just a fashion trend, nothing to do with some secret yearning to emulate the Wehrmacht. 3) You are dead on regarding the M60's ancestory. However, having fired both, I much prefer the modern German adaption to the M60. 4) However, don't forget the major contributions of the Russians. Who designed and fielded the first modern tank? Who first fielded large numbers of automatic small arms? Plus lots of other innovative stuff. And while the Germans made many major contributions, don't forget who developed the modern methods of utilizing artillery, which seriously hurt the Germans. Just some meanderings.

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Post #: 112

- 7/4/2001 8:53:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Dear Sven, from now on I'll try to ignore you, but It is not that easy when someone is spouting so much BS of myself. It is great that you like open forums where we all can say what we think. I would just hope you grant mee that right too. If you do not like my opinions then ignore them. But if you take so personally my stereotyping of Americans and attack me because of it, then do so. But grant me then the right to attack your wiews of Europeans. And if you can not accept that I do not place the source of my opinion it is your problem. I am not one of those people that like to get an educated opinion from somebody. I read about things and then make MY OWN OPINION and not someone elses. If you can not accept that then do ignore me. Unfortunately this thread has reduced to a fight between me and Sven. And I have nothing to add to the actual topic, so please forgive me for that.

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Post #: 113

- 7/4/2001 10:01:00 PM

JTGEN

Posts: 1279
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Oh I allmost forgot! ME: Nothing personal though... Sven: JTGEN it is NEVER personal with you. Sven so where is your sence of irony now?

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Post #: 114

- 7/4/2001 10:02:00 PM

sven

Posts: 10293
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: brickyard
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JTGEN: Dear Sven, from now on I'll try to ignore you, but It is not that easy when someone is spouting so much BS of myself. It is great that you like open forums where we all can say what we think. I would just hope you grant mee that right too. If you do not like my opinions then ignore them. But if you take so personally my stereotyping of Americans and attack me because of it, then do so. But grant me then the right to attack your wiews of Europeans. And if you can not accept that I do not place the source of my opinion it is your problem. I am not one of those people that like to get an educated opinion from somebody. I read about things and then make MY OWN OPINION and not someone elses. If you can not accept that then do ignore me. Unfortunately this thread has reduced to a fight between me and Sven. And I have nothing to add to the actual topic, so please forgive me for that.

JTGEN go pout elsewhere. I am tired of you dragging other forums into this one. When I have I ever denigrated the Europeans in the SPWAW forum? I have yet to belittle anyone in here as concerns a nationality(except maybe France), and I keep such drivel in the 'Art of Wargaming' where it belongs.(and they are melting down) If you want to discuss SPWAW I am in THIS forum to do so. Leave your little pity party elsewhere please. I gave you advice to increase your enjoyment of this Forum. Sorry my posting style flies over your head, but I assure there are guys who do 'get' it and e-mail me saying so. I WILL NOT fight with you here, or elsewhere. Such rivalries are a waste of forum time and I apologize as such. JTGEN I don't care if you ignore me out of anger, just ignore me please. Regards, Sven [ July 04, 2001: Message edited by: sven ]

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Post #: 115