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RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction

 
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RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:01:52 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		February 21st, 1946 was a very busy turn.

The last base in the Kuriles, Kunashiri, fell.

The 1st Royal Marine Division spearheaded landings at Bihoro, getting me ashore on the last main Japanese Home Island.

The Soviet 17th Army and 6th Guards Tank Army had a costly go at Hirosaki/Aomori.

The Soviet 25th Army had a disappointing round at Maebashi that failed to reduce forts.

The two American and one Soviet armies that entered Tokyo last turn had all independent artillery units bombard to test the waters on the over 800 Japanese LCUs present.

First up the fall of Kunishiri:

Ground combat at Kunashiri (125,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9765 troops, 141 guns, 146 vehicles, Assault Value = 287

Defending force 5591 troops, 63 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 27

Allied adjusted assault: 230

Japanese adjusted defense: 7

Allied assault odds: 32 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Kunashiri !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
562 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 33 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 22 (22 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Assaulting units:
201st(Sep) Infantry Regiment
151st Cmbt Engineer Battalion
87th Mountain Regiment
53rd (Sep) Infantry Regiment
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion

Defending units:
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade




< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/13/2019 12:02:14 PM >

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 91
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:03:34 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		2/21/46

Japanese bombardment of the Bihoro landing force:

Ground combat at Bihoro (123,51)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5047 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 120

Defending force 34451 troops, 563 guns, 1124 vehicles, Assault Value = 1163

Japanese ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
27th JNAF AF Unit

Defending units:
16th Canadian Brigade
192nd Tank Battalion
102nd Cmbt Engineer Regiment
4th Armoured Brigade
X Corps Engineer Regiment
1st Royal Marine Division
2nd Armoured Bde /7
9th AGRA
181st Field Artillery Battalion
X British Corps
435th Field Artillery Battalion
154th Field Artillery Battalion
188th Field Artillery Battalion
183rd Field Artillery Battalion
Provisional GMC Grp


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 92
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:06:04 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		2/21/46

Soviet 17th Army and 6th Guards Tank Army assault on Hirosaki/Aomori.
The unit destroyed was a tank battalion with BT-7s.

Ground combat at Hirosaki/Aomori (118,54)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 80649 troops, 1952 guns, 4567 vehicles, Assault Value = 3174

Defending force 66475 troops, 526 guns, 101 vehicles, Assault Value = 1733

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 1703

Japanese adjusted defense: 5287

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1876 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 124 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled
Guns lost 49 (3 destroyed, 46 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5933 casualties reported
Squads: 60 destroyed, 442 disabled
Non Combat: 34 destroyed, 166 disabled
Engineers: 99 destroyed, 153 disabled
Guns lost 142 (20 destroyed, 122 disabled)
Vehicles lost 328 (94 destroyed, 234 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
8th Engr-Sapper Bde
7th Guards Mechanized Corps
5th Guards Tank Corps
57th Motor Rifle Division
36th Motor Rifle Division
284th Rifle Division
22nd Engr-Sapper Bde
335th Guards SU Regiment
82nd Tank Battalion
61st Tank Division
70th Tank Battalion
339th Guards SU Regiment
338th Guards SU Regiment
1019th SU Regiment
629th Cannon Regiment
624th Hvy. Howitzer Regiment
39th Guards Mortar Regiment
1141st Cannon Regiment
185th Cannon Regiment
202nd Lt.Artillery Brigade
413th Howitzer Regiment
6th Gd.Breakthrough Artillery Division
178th Mortar Regiment

Defending units:
157th Division
58th Ind.Mixed Brigade
95th Ind.Mixed Brigade
47th Engineer Regiment
308th Division
47th Cavalry Regiment
55th Ind.Mixed Brigade
47th Brigade
222nd Division
91st Infantry Regiment
94th Division
5th Fleet
51st Air Flotilla
3rd Shin'yo Sqn
31st Air Defense AA Battalion
51st Base Force
50th Army
Ominato Naval Base Force
21st JAAF Base Force
Masuda JAAF Base Force

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 93
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:07:41 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		2/21/46

Soviet 25th Armies failed attack on Maebashi. Need more combat engineers here.

Ground combat at Maebashi (113,59)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 121432 troops, 2447 guns, 1917 vehicles, Assault Value = 3501

Defending force 27291 troops, 344 guns, 118 vehicles, Assault Value = 561

Allied adjusted assault: 974

Japanese adjusted defense: 1129

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 7)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1523 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 147 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 34 (3 destroyed, 31 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (3 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
5360 casualties reported
Squads: 164 destroyed, 88 disabled
Non Combat: 78 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 55 destroyed, 22 disabled
Guns lost 58 (35 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 139 (109 destroyed, 30 disabled)

Assaulting units:
366th Rifle Division
125th Tank Brigade
46th Engr-Sapper Bde
384th Rifle Division
40th Rifle Division
218th Tank Brigade
72nd Tank Brigade
126th Rifle Division
54th Engr-Sapper Bde
105th Rifle Division
393rd Rifle Division
190th Rifle Division
209th Tank Brigade
172nd Brigade
386th Rifle Division
259th Tank Brigade
25th Mechanized Brigade
67th Guards Mortar Regiment
215th Howitzer Regiment
1137th Howitzer Regiment
386th Howitzer Regiment
219th Corps Art Brigade
117th/428th OM Gun Battalion
2nd/307th Gd.Mortar Regiment
56th Hvy.Mortar Brigade
26th/42nd Gd.Mortar Regiment
221st Corps Art Brigade
1134th Howitzer Regiment
1132nd Howitzer Regiment
72nd/74th Gd.Mortar Regiment
3rd Gd.Breakthrough Artillery Division

Defending units:
118th Ind.Mixed Brigade
114th Ind.Mixed Brigade
86th Division
221st Division
17th Ind. Brigade
18th Hvy.Artillery Regiment
53rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
54th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
113th AA Regiment
13th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.AA Gun Co

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 94
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:12:39 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		2/21/46


The 'recon' bombardment of Tokyo by only independent artillery units. No divisional organic artillery participated.
I'm playing with stacking limits everywhere and can only surmise that must be what contributed to this astounding result.
I was actually cringing with expectation that the counter bombardment would be devastating.

I have 2 full American armies and 1 Soviet Army in the hex now with 4 more Soviet armies cueing up.

Ground combat at Tokyo (114,60)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 11196 troops, 1052 guns, 875 vehicles, Assault Value = 8164

Defending force 999657 troops, 6969 guns, 6442 vehicles, Assault Value = 21904

Japanese ground losses:
4900 casualties reported
Squads: 145 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 101 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 40 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 14 (13 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (4 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
3rd Marine Division
98th Infantry Division
IX Corps Engr Grp
277th Engineer Battalion
355th Rifle Division
1st USMC Tank Battalion
44th Tank Battalion
43rd Infantry Division
11th Airborne Division
478th Guards SU Regiment
395th Guards SU Regiment
12th Rifle Division
4th Marine Division
5th USMC Tank Battalion
27th Infantry Division
204th Rifle Division
73rd Tank Brigade
1st Marine Division
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
2nd Marine Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
131st Cmbt Engineer Regiment
6th USMC Tank Battalion
1st Spec Svc Force
720th Flame Tank Battalion
35th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
40th Infantry Division
81st Infantry Division
378th Guards SU Regiment
91st Infantry Division
333rd Guards SU Regiment
480th Guards SU Regiment
479th Guards SU Regiment
735th SU Regiment
396th Rifle Division
775th Tank Battalion
18th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
3rd Rifle Division
5th Marine Division
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
713th Flame Tank Battalion
8th Army Engr Grp
258th Tank Brigade
74th Tank Brigade
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
6th Marine Division
3rd Mongolian Tank Regiment
5th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
17th Guards Mortar Brigade
100th OM Howitzer Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
26th Guards Mortar Brigade
88th Mortar Battalion
411th Howitzer Regiment
52nd Guards Mortar Regiment
310th Guards Mortar Regiment
192nd OM Gun Battalion
1140th Cannon Regiment
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
465th Mortar Regiment
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
114th Hvy Howitzer Regiment
550th BM Howitzer Regiment
147th Howitzer Regiment
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1120th Cannon Regiment
20th Guards Mortar Brigade
181st Mortar Regiment
362nd/367th OM Gun Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
6th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1628th AT Gun Regiment
7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
82nd Mortar Battalion
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
1129th Hvy Howitzer Regiment
42nd Cannon Regiment
53rd Guards Mortar Regiment

Defending units:
43rd Const Engineer Regiment
224th Division
291st Division
97th Ind.Mixed Brigade
60th Ind.Mixed Brigade
79th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Mobile Division
5th Division
135th Ind.Mixed Brigade
71st Division
1st Ching An Tui Brigade
40th Division
27th Tank Regiment
344th Division
20th RGC Division
2nd RGC Capital Division
4th Tank Division
302nd Division
56th Const Engineer Regiment
48th Tank Regiment
7th Ind. Engineer Regiment
88th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Raiding Regiment
31st Division
3rd Mobile Division
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
53rd Const Engineer Regiment
39th Road Const Engineer Regiment
37th Division
288th Division
19th RGC Temp. Division
59th Ind.Mixed Brigade
18th Division
42nd Brigade
44th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th Ind.Infantry Brigade
214th Division
102nd NCPC Route Division
1st RGC Capital Division
4th Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Ching An Tui Brigade
41st Ind.Garrison Brigade
1st RGC Route Brigade
32nd Division
149th Division
101st Ind.Mixed Brigade
41st Division
354th Division
26th Ind.Mixed Brigade
70th Ind.Mixed Brigade
201st Division
2nd Guards Division
1st Ind.Mixed Brigade
24th Infantry Regiment
21st Division
34th Tank Regiment
33rd Division
80th Division
84th Ind.Mixed Brigade
105th Ind.Mixed Brigade
42nd Division
303rd Ind.Infantry Brigade
Yangtze SNLF
5th Mongol Cavalry Division
11th RGC Ind. Brigade
101st Infantry Regiment
100th Const Engineer Regiment
62nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
117th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Mongol Cavalry Division
83rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
68th Ind.Infantry Brigade
3rd RGC Division
7th RGC Temp. Division
140th Division
101st NCPC Route Division
70th Division
1st Ind.Tank Brigade
110th Division
9th RGC Route Brigade
7th Ind.Infantry Brigade
92nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Armored Car Co
55th Division
3rd Ind.Tank Brigade
5th Garrison Unit
22nd RGC Temp. Division
119th Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Armored Car Co
61st Division
17th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Recon Regiment
34th Const Engineer Regiment
8th Garrison Unit
36th Ind.Mixed Brigade
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
11th Ind.Infantry Brigade
129th Division
36th Const Engineer Regiment
6th Division
22nd Division
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
119th Division
10th RGC Temp. Division
Kyuko Naval Guard Unit
35th Division
23rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
234th Division
8th Ind.Infantry Brigade
14th RGC Temp. Division
2nd Guards Mixed Brigade
54th Const Engineer Regiment
80th Infantry Brigade
65th Division
25th Division
1st NCPC Route Division
80th Ind.Mixed Brigade
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Tank Division
1st NCPC Infantry Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Mongol Regiment
1st Guards Division
8th Engineer Regiment
81st Ind.Mixed Brigade
24th Ind.Mixed Brigade
132nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
68th Division
9th Armoured Division
34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th Ind.Mixed Brigade
21st Ind.Mixed Regiment
22nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
24th NCPC Route Division
67th Ind.Infantry Brigade
35th Const Engineer Regiment
71st Ind.Mixed Brigade
34th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th Ind.Mixed Brigade
2nd Ind.Tank Brigade
132nd Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
121st Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st Division
3rd RGC Capital Division
351st Division
300th Division
26th RGC Temp. Division
21st RGC Temp. Division
1st Engineer Regiment
138th Division
28th Ind.Mixed Brigade
90th Guards Brigade
Kanno Det
47th Const Engineer Regiment
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th Infantry Brigade
1st Ind.Infantry Brigade
59th Division
79th Infantry Brigade
17th RGC Temp. Division
2nd RGC Division
103rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
31st Infantry Brigade
Dacoits
37th Const Engineer Regiment
115th Ind.Mixed Brigade
3rd Ching An Tui Brigade
81st Division
25th RGC Temp. Division
3rd Guards Division
49th Ind.Mixed Brigade
Nanking Naval Guard Unit
11th Tank Regiment
118th Division
2nd SP Gun Division
5th Ind.Mixed Brigade
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
10th Division
52nd Division
5th Raiding Force
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Cavalry Division
230th Division
Hilo Assault Force SNLF
36th Const Engineer Regiment
66th Ind.Mixed Brigade
41st Guard Division
91st Infantry Fortress
Dacoits
5th NCPC Infantry Brigade
Maizuru 3rd SNLF
130th Division
62nd Division
105th Division
31st Ind.Mixed Regiment
2nd Division
55th Const Engineer Regiment
131st Division
301st Division
27th Division
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
104th Division
5th Engineer Regiment
18th RGC Temp. Division
4th Engineer Regiment
321st Division
27th RGC Temp. Division
122nd Division
72nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
28th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th VM Division
155th Division
133rd Division
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Tanaka Det
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
36th Division
12th RGC Ind. Brigade
50th Division
8th Tank Regiment
96th Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Division
11th Recon Regiment
76th Ind.Mixed Brigade
8th NCPC Infantry Brigade
46th Const Co Base Force
6th Medium Mortar Battalion
4th Shipping Engineer Regiment
3rd Fleet
42nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Sorong Engineer Battalion
51st Road Const Co
9th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
35th Field AA Battalion
7th Air Army
52nd Army
74th Field AA Battalion
16th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Engineer Battalion
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
26th RF Gun Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
70th Field AA Battalion
2nd Area Army
8th Field AF Construction Battalion
IV South Seas Engineer Battalion
52nd Air Division
73rd Field AA Battalion
78th Field AA Battalion
86th Field AA Battalion
25th Field AA Machinecannon Company
1st Army
94th Field AA Battalion
16th AA Regiment
51st Army
62nd Air Flotilla
51st Const Co Base Force
12th Army
54th Field AA Battalion
21st Base Force
55th Air Division
3rd Air Army
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
21st Air Defense AA Battalion
Java Engineer Battalion
50th Road Const Co
12th Area Army
6th Engineer Battalion
20th Base Force
3rd FF Const Unit Base Force
Palembang Imperial AA Division
21st Mortar Battalion
Kuching Engineer Battalion
101st AA Regiment
96th Field AA Battalion
38th Const Co Base Force
87th Engineer Battalion
28th Base Force
4th Mortar Battalion
26th Base Force
32nd Field AA Battalion
52nd Const Co Base Force
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Shin'yo Sqn
33rd Base Force
2nd Rocket Gun Battalion
90th Field AA Battalion
47th Road Const Co
52nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
62nd Field AA Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
61st Air Flotilla
122nd AA Regiment
23rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
18th Area Army
China Area Fleet
40th Field AA Battalion
NCPC Army
5th Engineer Battalion
13th Air Fleet
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
Kendari Engineer Battalion
72nd Air Flotilla
2nd Air Army
RGC Army
Malaya Engineer Battalion
105th Machine Canno AA Battalion
4th Army
52nd Road Const Co
15th Air Fleet
7th Sumatra Engineer Battalion
38th Field AA Battalion
64th Field AA Battalion
9th Shin'yo Sqn
V South Seas Engineer Battalion
51st Air Defense AA Battalion
79th Field AA Battalion
7th Shipping Engineer Regiment
13th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
8th Area Army
26th Base Force
3rd Engineer Construction Battalion
Tavoy Engineer Battalion
119th AA Regiment
3rd Java Engineer Battalion
10th Area Army
9th Air Division
37th Army
6th Fleet
30th Field AA Machinecannon Company
14th Hvy.Artillery Regiment
24th Base Force
11th Shipping Engineer Regiment
Port Moresby Engineer Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
21st AA Regiment
2nd Ind. Field Artillery Regiment
1st Machine Cannon AA Battalion
81st Field AA Battalion
67th Field AA Battalion
38th Army
92nd Field AA Battalion
9th Ind.Tank Brigade
11th Shin'yo Sqn
41st Field AA Battalion
11th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
2nd Java Engineer Battalion
1st Ind.Tank Co
101st POW Cont Co Base Force
35th Fld AA Gun Co
3rd RF Gun Battalion
95th Field AA Battalion
43rd Army
41st Air Defense AA Battalion
22nd Air Flotilla
1st Shipping Engineer Regiment
103rd Machine Canno AA Battalion
104th AA Regiment
Tarawa Engineer Battalion
5th Medium Mortar Battalion
115th AA Regiment
52nd Base Force
Yokosuka Assault SNLF
19th RF Gun Battalion
27th Base Force
6th Air Army
56th Field AA Battalion
36th Base Force
66th Field AA Battalion
8th Sumatra Engineer Battalion
7th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
26th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
VIII South Seas Engineer Regiment
29th Base Force
15th Const Co Base Force
5th Mortar Battalion
56th Army
5th Sumatra Engineer Battalion
22nd Base Force
26th Fld AA Machinecannon Company
5th Air Army
28th Army
II South Seas Engineer Battalion
52nd Field AA Battalion
12th Shin'yo Sqn
42nd Air Defense AA Battalion
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Medium Mortar Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Engineer Battalion
18th Engineer Battalion
102nd Machine Canno AA Battalion
41st Army
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
89th Field AA Battalion
6th Shipping Engineer Regiment
102nd POW Cont Co Base Force
China Expeditionary Army
18th RF Gun Battalion
III South Seas Engineer Battalion
20th RF Gun Battalion
4th RF Gun Battalion
46th Road Const Co
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
10th Air Fleet
25th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
15th Army
102nd AA Regiment
4th Java Engineer Battalion
7th Air Division
2nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
Jolo Engineer Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th Sumatra Engineer Battalion
31st Army
5th Field AF Construction Battalion
88th Field AA Battalion
24th Fld AA Machinecannon Company
52nd Road Const Co
9th Field AF Construction Battalion

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 95
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 12:14:15 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		And finally a situation map for February 22, 1946:






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 96
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 4:34:20 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		The AI does not seem to understand stacking limits.

Add some shock armour to the bombardments, run the BBs in from Yokohama, and crumble them.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 97
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/13/2019 4:46:41 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I am still one day out from entering Yokahama and the coastal fortress guns are still in action there.

Tried on the 21st to run a squadron of a dozen PT boats through and they got slaughtered by the guns and my own mines laid there offensively a while back.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 98
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/14/2019 12:53:04 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Tried on the 21st to run a squadron of a dozen PT boats through and they got slaughtered by the guns and my own mines laid there offensively a while back.


Ouch!! I wonder how much damage you could do to the Tokyo defenders just by bombarding for a while? I have to admit it is not encouraging to go up against 21K AV!

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 99
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/14/2019 1:54:28 PM   
Gridley380


Posts: 464
Joined: 12/20/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Defending force 999657 troops, 6969 guns, 6442 vehicles, Assault Value = 21904



Just under a million troops...

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 100
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/14/2019 2:35:39 PM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Yup, probably bombard only (I think you are safe to include combat units with artillery) for a few weeks should whittle enemy down considerably - over-stacking is the culprit here on the enemy side.

_____________________________


(in reply to Gridley380)
Post #: 101
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/14/2019 8:49:43 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

And finally a situation map for February 22, 1946:



872 enemy units? Good thing those aren't cardboard counters! On the other hand...if they were....a cat would plow through that stack faster than any in-game weapon.


_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 102
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 4:44:02 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The AI does not seem to understand stacking limits.

Add some shock armour to the bombardments, run the BBs in from Yokohama, and crumble them.


1. Arrival locations for new and resurrected LCUs cannot take into account stacking limits. Not everyone plays a stacking limit game.

2. Non island stacking limits were introduced post release of AE. It would require a fair amount of database research/retyping to spread out the arrival locations. That still would not take into account player resurrections and being subjective would indubitably result in criticism.

3. You don't want to mess up other AI routines which are based on the current arrival locations.

Alfred

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 103
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 11:46:46 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Just think of all of the units that you destroyed instead of bypassing and isolating with destruction coming much later, now they are dug in at the Home Islands. If you were to do this all over again, would you bypass and isolate many units, destroying them much later like in this time period of the game? Or would you bypass and isolate, just bombing and bombarding them?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 104
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 12:38:50 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Alfred,

I don't play with the stacking limits map - because I only play the AI.

I accept that your points are all correct.... but

Even so, the IJA scripted opponent over-stacks 6000 atolls, and even type 1 & 2 islands (30k/60k). Including with static restricted divisions form the Asian mainland.

My point is, the antidote is a persistent application of large calibre naval rifles, bombers, and a highly prepped landing force featuring tanks.

regards





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Post #: 105
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 2:12:03 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Just think of all of the units that you destroyed instead of bypassing and isolating with destruction coming much later, now they are dug in at the Home Islands. If you were to do this all over again, would you bypass and isolate many units, destroying them much later like in this time period of the game? Or would you bypass and isolate, just bombing and bombarding them?



Nope, I will still destroy every last Japanese unity I have an opportunity to destroy.

Only bypassed units are those that were never attacked like the ones at Truk.

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Post #: 106
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 3:13:13 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I was thinking of bypassing and destroying them later in a mop up operation. That way, when they return, they will not have much time to fill out and train.

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Post #: 107
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/15/2019 7:37:05 PM   
Cheesesteak


Posts: 301
Joined: 11/8/2010
From: Richmond, VA
Status: offline 		found myself moving towards the edge of my seat reading this (now) AAR. Keep up the good work!

Curious, once you clear yokohama, how many capital ships do you have available to make runs? Where are your CVs moored?

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Post #: 108
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 10/16/2019 9:54:26 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I have dozens of cruiser and destroyer TFs on the Pacific Coast and about six of them on the Sea of Japan coast.

Have 5 BB TFs at Kure. Two consist of 5 and 4 old BBs respectively. Two are the 28 knot Fast BBs and the last is the Iowa's. The two large slow BB TFs have been hitting Osaka and Nagoya daily while the faster TFs are hitting Yokohama. Most of the Cruiser TFs are now hitting Sendai. The Sea of Japan cruiser TFs are hitting Hirosaki/Aomami. Not many targets left.

All of the British BBs are in NoPac, where I also have at least 8 more cruiser TFs.

The British carriers got beat up by winter weather while covering the invasion of the last Kurile island Kunashiri and were repairing at Adak when the Bihoro invasion was ready to go so I split the American Death Star that had covered the invasions of Chiba and Utsonomiya (adjacent to Tokyo) and sent the CVE to NoPac to cover the invasion. One TF of British CVEs was also available.

Since the combination of the DS and the 4Es effectively suppressed the Tokyo/Yokahana air fields I also sent the Fleet carriers to help pummel Hokkaido.

Have been resting my bombers for the past three days except in NoPac and the Tokyo airfield is alive and functioning again giving me something to fight in the air again.

Didn't mention before that on that big day of February 21st wherein so much happened that I also had four ships hit by kamikazes. Even with paltry missions of 2-5 aircraft some always leak through the CAP and get hits. The attrition has been steady, but nowhere near where it would need to be to have a strategic effect.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/16/2019 9:58:12 AM >

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Post #: 109
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 9:00:00 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Bump.

I was wondering how things were developing in your current game, after testing some of the techniques proposed in this thread?

In a recent siege battle in Shanghai, I had the 18th Cav and 150 RAC regiments - mounted in Valentines with the soft elements stripped away by air transport and warehoused - work on the large IJ stack there for a couple of weeks. On shock orders they knocked down fortification levels, in addition to inflicting mass disablements.

It may not be what the developers intended, but then this is the descendant of a point to point land combat game and the scripted opponent doesn't bother with stacking limits.



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RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 9:45:50 AM   
mattj78


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/19/2020
Status: offline 		Don't forget japan tried to surrender in may with the terms we we ended up giving them

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 111
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 12:54:34 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!


Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 112
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 1:55:52 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!


Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.


People can survive on 1000 calories a day. They can still pull a trigger.

Maybe they should have stocked up on flour!




Attachment (1)

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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― Julia Child


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 113
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 3:24:34 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mattj78

Don't forget japan tried to surrender in may with the terms we we ended up giving them


What's your point? This thread is about combat calculation mechanisms in a simulation program.

PS - Moltrey might report you for going off topic.

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Post #: 114
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 3:41:08 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That is truly scary, and a good indication of what the real Operation Olympic might have had to deal with at Nagasaki and Fukuoka.
Thanks for taking the time to show us that!


Scarecrows. By the time Olympic would have started the Americans would have been facing scarecrows. Japan was at 1000 calories a day in the summer of '45.


People can survive on 1000 calories a day. They can still pull a trigger.

Maybe they should have stocked up on flour!





Japan was on civilian food rationing in 1940.

You know that scene towards the end of Band of Brothers - "Say hello to Ford!" - you could could repeat that 10 fold in the case of Imperial Japan. What were they thinking?

Mr Ford



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Post #: 115
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 4:12:45 PM   
Naskra

 

Posts: 325
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		I had a similar game to Hans. Tokyo with its million-man garrison fell after a four month siege. Allied attacks were spaced about two weeks apart. This kept casualties light. I had over 70k AV in the hex.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 116
RE: Cost of Heavy Urban Level 9 Fort Reduction - 6/14/2021 4:59:29 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		You can perform deliberate assaults repetitively with pure tank units, with only minor unit rotation required. These will inflict heavy casualties at relatively little cost. Shock assaults (by those tank units in isolation) may also reduce fortification levels. Heavy and repeated BB bombardments also help. As discussed previously in this thread, throwing away your combat engineer squads hoping to get fort reductions does not pass cost/benefit analysis.



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