Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

How much of that convoy's AAA value was in light guns? How much in heavy guns? That may be the difference. But with all of the fighters there, those Royal Air Force Liberators should not have attacked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

How much of that convoy's AAA value was in light guns? How much in heavy guns? That may be the difference. But with all of the fighters there, those Royal Air Force Liberators should not have attacked.

Light AA like the 25mm can't reach bombers at 10k ft

quote:

that convoy had quite some AA value and one Liberator was shot down before making it's bomb run...

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

How much of that convoy's AAA value was in light guns? How much in heavy guns? That may be the difference. But with all of the fighters there, those Royal Air Force Liberators should not have attacked.

Light AA like the 25mm can't reach bombers at 10k ft

I know that. But you stated that:

quote:

that convoy had quite some AA value and one Liberator was shot down before making it's bomb run...

So how much was heavy AAA.

But those bombers should never even made it that far with all of the good fighters there.

quote:

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 41
Ki-84a Frank x 88

Allied aircraft
Liberator GR.III x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator GR.III: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Liberator GR.III: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
AK Hokkai Maru
AK Kirishima Maru

and this one was both surprising and highly annoying... surprising because those Liberators were drawn in from Ceylon by a minelaying RN sub (so the mine laying mission actually did damage -> to the RAF ) and annoying because it's the same stupid sh*t with the air routine as always... we have quite some fighters in the air and the easily down those Navy Liberators one after another... and when there were only three bombers left? It's the same idiotic behaviour I have mentioned a couple of times already, the routine starts to go into asshole mode, myriads of messages of "3 Franks scrambling" until the exact maximum of fighters on CAP is reached and then the combat is over... makes it the usual three bombers to make it 100% safe through the CAP... seen with 800 fighters on CAP vs 8 bombers, seen with 150 fighters vs 10 bombers, it's always the same... go and keep praising that silly stuff...

that convoy had quite some AA value and one Liberator was shot down before making it's bomb run...



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Liberator GR.III bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
263 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 30 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 30 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 41
Ki-84a Frank x 88

Allied aircraft
Liberator GR.III x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator GR.III: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Liberator GR.III: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
AK Hokkai Maru
AK Kirishima Maru

and this one was both surprising and highly annoying... surprising because those Liberators were drawn in from Ceylon by a minelaying RN sub (so the mine laying mission actually did damage -> to the RAF ) and annoying because it's the same stupid sh*t with the air routine as always... we have quite some fighters in the air and the easily down those Navy Liberators one after another... and when there were only three bombers left? It's the same idiotic behaviour I have mentioned a couple of times already, the routine starts to go into asshole mode, myriads of messages of "3 Franks scrambling" until the exact maximum of fighters on CAP is reached and then the combat is over... makes it the usual three bombers to make it 100% safe through the CAP... seen with 800 fighters on CAP vs 8 bombers, seen with 150 fighters vs 10 bombers, it's always the same... go and keep praising that silly stuff...

that convoy had quite some AA value and one Liberator was shot down before making it's bomb run...



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Liberator GR.III bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
263 Ku S-1 with N1K2-J George (0 airborne, 28 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
9th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 30 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
64th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 30 on standby, 0 scrambling)
14 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes

The game even tells you what's going on here...emphasis mine.

You get 27 minutes notice and 25 minutes to get your aircraft into position.

Most of the AA value would have been tied up in the 25mm popguns. There are only a couple of 8cm DP guns on each of those ships that can fire and be effective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

Here it is the Rangoon incident.

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

*Edit for brevity*

How do we explain the whole 3 B-29s escapes 170 Frank's while at 11k altitude.

I know that everything is a minute or two late for intercept but Can't the Frank's intercept the B-29's after they have bombed their targets instead of the just ignoring them flying onto the sun

quote:

This is the original 4E bomber incident, their is another one but it's was just another attack on KB with the same results except most Bombers got shot down except 2.

*edit for brevity*

Note how no ones airborne.

Are you 100% sure that The radar and air routine was 100% working and wasn't smoking or something, IDK man but I find this result "odd".

Also doesn't CAP intercept planes after they have attacked a ship?

quote:

But then again almost most of the air operations in India were cursed with something since the a.i at the super KB refused to launch planes at the Allied landing ships for three bloody days, which lead to the "safe" landing of over 500,000 Men into their POW camps at the swamps filled with Crocodiles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

Here it is the Rangoon incident.

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

*Edit for brevity*

How do we explain the whole 3 B-29s escapes 170 Frank's while at 11k altitude.

I know that everything is a minute or two late for intercept but Can't the Frank's intercept the B-29's after they have bombed their targets instead of the just ignoring them flying onto the sun

7 minutes of warning, so effectively tactical surprise.

Frank A max speed - 392

B-29-1 max speed - 357

In the context of only 35 mph difference, the B-29's escaping seems reasonable given the lack of time the Franks have to respond, as well as the fairly narrow speed advantage they possess.

quote:

This is the original 4E bomber incident, their is another one but it's was just another attack on KB with the same results except most Bombers got shot down except 2.

*edit for brevity*

Note how no ones airborne.

Are you 100% sure that The radar and air routine was 100% working and wasn't smoking or something, IDK man but I find this result "odd".

Also doesn't CAP intercept planes after they have attacked a ship?

Read s.7.4.1 of the manual and let me know if you find this result "odd" afterwards.

quote:

But then again almost most of the air operations in India were cursed with something since the a.i at the super KB refused to launch planes at the Allied landing ships for three bloody days, which lead to the "safe" landing of over 500,000 Men into their POW camps at the swamps filled with Crocodiles.

Yes, castor troy has "cursed AI"

More likely that a number of potential variables that influence carrier operations has been overlooked.

If there was a longstanding issue in AE of IJ carrier aircraft not flying at large fleets, I feel very confident that it would have been raised on the tech support section long before now.

Given that castor seems convinced there's an issue, I'm suprised to see that he hasn't posted there in the last year, and all the issues raised prior are not related to the current issue (mostly around attack bombers)...

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29000Kevin

Here it is the Rangoon incident.

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

*Edit for brevity*

How do we explain the whole 3 B-29s escapes 170 Frank's while at 11k altitude.

I know that everything is a minute or two late for intercept but Can't the Frank's intercept the B-29's after they have bombed their targets instead of the just ignoring them flying onto the sun

7 minutes of warning, so effectively tactical surprise.

Frank A max speed - 392

B-29-1 max speed - 357

In the context of only 35 mph difference, the B-29's escaping seems reasonable given the lack of time the Franks have to respond, as well as the fairly narrow speed advantage they possess.

quote:

This is the original 4E bomber incident, their is another one but it's was just another attack on KB with the same results except most Bombers got shot down except 2.

*edit for brevity*

Note how no ones airborne.

Are you 100% sure that The radar and air routine was 100% working and wasn't smoking or something, IDK man but I find this result "odd".

Also doesn't CAP intercept planes after they have attacked a ship?

Read s.7.4.1 of the manual and let me know if you find this result "odd" afterwards.

quote:

But then again almost most of the air operations in India were cursed with something since the a.i at the super KB refused to launch planes at the Allied landing ships for three bloody days, which lead to the "safe" landing of over 500,000 Men into their POW camps at the swamps filled with Crocodiles.

Yes, castor troy has "cursed AI"

More likely that a number of potential variables that influence carrier operations has been overlooked.

If there was a longstanding issue in AE of IJ carrier aircraft not flying at large fleets, I feel very confident that it would have been raised on the tech support section long before now.

Given that castor seems convinced there's an issue, I'm suprised to see that he hasn't posted there in the last year, and all the issues raised prior are not related to the current issue (mostly around attack bombers)...

Well you have your argument set up and its backed up with solid evidence.

I would've made a bigger comment with me talking about the manual and how I'm new here but it got deleted acidently.

quote:

Still if half the B-29 squadron was caught by the Frank's then surely the other 4 would be right next to them for the defensive fire... argh I'll let it go for.

Now it is time to wait again to see if the game pulls this stunt on the Japanese again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

After so many years I can only shake my head about more and more and more abstractions people are coming up with. You really think that all those asumptions and abstractions you find all the time were going into the coding? Seriously?

quote:

Go find one of the guys that were part of the "team", perhaps one that left in anger still gives you a hint a decade after release. Even if they must not lose a word about the development nor the code, it was not a puppy meeting where all was fun and games it was more like curse and murder and it was like a wonder that they even managed to release what they released and this is especially true for the air routine

quote:

Of course, making more abstractions all over can still make a single 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 routine the best routine ever made on this planet, you just have to abstract the result enough and it's great. Fantasy is all you need.

quote:

As for the manual, not sure I posted it in the AAR or on another thread, discussing the manual was fun and games perhaps a month after release but it was never spot on, discussing the manual a decade after release is mostly absurd.

quote:

I didn't even want to answer on it but your comment about the game is giving you all the needed details like "Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes". Yes, that's a nice info but you seem not to read it well enough. It says Time for ALL group planes to reach interception...

quote:

out of 800 Zekes on CAP, if just 25% could reach interception, it would be 200 fighters. 200 vs halve a dozen bombers. But hey, no matter how many hundreds of fighters were on CAP in all those interceptions against 6-20 enemy bombers that I have posted lately, literally every time the combat stopped when there were only 3 bombers to fight left, then minute long messages of packs of fighters scrambling until the max number on CAP was reached and then the combat was over. Go find your abstractions for EVERY of those engagements. Go figure.

quote:


why would an Allied sub sink from a Japanese mine? Would be totally unrealistic I guess... what's a good abstraction for unrealistic? Must be halve a dozen subs so far passing through Hakodate hitting a mine, they just move on, able to submerge, able to sink ships and stay on station... after hitting a mine? A sub? delete it if you can't make it work properly...

waiting for real life incidents where a sub was able to submerge after hitting a mine... well, they all submerged but for their last time... have only spent roughly 10 minutes on google and didn't even find one where a sub survived a mine hit, only found subs of all different nations being lost to mines though... there might be one, perhaps more, dunno... but I do know that a sub is not able to submerge with a big hole in the hull...

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back at 10k ft, no flak burst... none... there isn't a single point of supply for any of the large calibre AA guns, not one...

quote:

had a 30 av unit crossing the river into the swamp hex to block the retreat to the West for the Allied stack... the shock attack of course resulted in the destruction of the unit... the huge losses including the many disablements of the rest of the Japanese units didn't happen, they were all bombarding and didn't suffer losses at all, the units are at full strenght when I checked them...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Seems to be a classic case of you not fully understanding the river crossing and ground combat routines here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Seems to be a classic case of you not fully understanding the river crossing and ground combat routines here.

lol

classic case of me not understanding anything in the game. Praise the yay sayers, praise them

not going to answer anymore at this point, not worth the time