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RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 3:57:48 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Can we please stop with the insults? Surely we can have an interesting discussion or even an argument without resorting to playground behavior?

M-M, I believe the primary point of contention that is being leveled here is not that these weapons are not effective, it's that they should not be more effective than other bombardment tools also present in the game to a point that is clearly ahistorical. I think we all know enough about the Pacific War to see that an LCI(G) should not be more effective than a dozen heavy cruisers in bombardment, but if you think differently could you please explain why the USN went to such lengths to bring in large numbers of heavy warships for sustained bombardments very late into the war if they could have simply used a score of these craft in a single run?

I have studied artillery effects quite extensively in my professional life. The latest project I did directly tied to the subject was a few years back when I looked at the 2014 Zelenopillya attack. The main weakness of standard rocket artillery is the lack of penetrating capacity. Especially when we are talking about WW2 rockets, they are great against units on the surface with little cover but are extremely inaccurate and are very weak against units in bunkers. I assure you they are not nearly as powerful against dug in forces, especially if concrete emplacements are available, as large caliber howitzer or gun shells.


The cruisers are not being used in the same type of "bombardment". The results therefore should not be the same.

Alfred

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 1471
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 5:45:55 AM   
WriterNotViking


Posts: 94
Joined: 8/7/2010
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline 		This discussion is going nowhere, and I've been reading these forums long enough to recognize that some very old conflicts are being reiterated here. Discussions of game mechanics and whether or not something is working as designed are secondary to the question of whether this is a) historically accurate and, independently thereof, b) whether the ability to render fortified atoll garrisons entirely combat ineffective with a single turn's actions by LCI gunboats is balanced, purely in terms of gameplay. WITP:AE is a game, not a simulation, which means question b) can be debated without ever going under the hood to examine precise game mechanics. It is clearly understood by all that changes to the game will not be made, and no one is harmed if some reach the conclusion that a given mechanic or device is not balanced well. This is called a difference of opinion. We all already know the game is not perfect; we all love it anyway.

I find that this entire discussion was derailed at the start by the introduction of the straw man argument that the garrison was expected to drive the invaders into the sea (which Alfred bizarrely labeled a "very precise comment" ) I think it's time everyone take a step back and remember that you're posting in someone else's AAR, and the author is fully entitled to rant or raise issues of game balance when presented with disappointing results. If you want to disagree, there are respectful ways to do that, as other posters have done in this AAR and others. Mind_messing's dripping condescension and Alfred's weird lament that someone else isn't available to be even more inappropriately harsh than he already is do not clear this bar.

This seems like an excellent opportunity to share a reminder that having knowledge beyond the average does not entitle you to be unpleasant.

_____________________________

Calm down, dear boy! We're writers, not Vikings...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1472
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 6:14:10 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking

This discussion is going nowhere, and I've been reading these forums long enough to recognize that some very old conflicts are being reiterated here. Discussions of game mechanics and whether or not something is working as designed are secondary to the question of whether this is a) historically accurate and, independently thereof, b) whether the ability to render fortified atoll garrisons entirely combat ineffective with a single turn's actions by LCI gunboats is balanced, purely in terms of gameplay. WITP:AE is a game, not a simulation, which means question b) can be debated without ever going under the hood to examine precise game mechanics. It is clearly understood by all that changes to the game will not be made, and no one is harmed if some reach the conclusion that a given mechanic or device is not balanced well. This is called a difference of opinion. We all already know the game is not perfect; we all love it anyway.

I find that this entire discussion was derailed at the start by the introduction of the straw man argument that the garrison was expected to drive the invaders into the sea (which Alfred bizarrely labeled a "very precise comment" ) I think it's time everyone take a step back and remember that you're posting in someone else's AAR, and the author is fully entitled to rant or raise issues of game balance when presented with disappointing results. If you want to disagree, there are respectful ways to do that, as other posters have done in this AAR and others. Mind_messing's dripping condescension and Alfred's weird lament that someone else isn't available to be even more inappropriately harsh than he already is do not clear this bar.

This seems like an excellent opportunity to share a reminder that having knowledge beyond the average does not entitle you to be unpleasant.


Very selective commentary here.

And frankly, of not much value.

This got derailed when it was claimed that the issue could be fixed by changing the data in the editor. A claim made by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. But having put it out there, it just encourages others to wreck the game.

No one can, nor did, dispute JWE/Symon's credentials. He would not have put up with this nonsense. Instead we have the usual suspects sprouting nonsense which is taken seriously as being valid.

Alfred

(in reply to WriterNotViking)
Post #: 1473
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 6:35:29 AM   
WriterNotViking


Posts: 94
Joined: 8/7/2010
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Very selective commentary here.

And frankly, of not much value.

This got derailed when it was claimed that the issue could be fixed by changing the data in the editor. A claim made by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. But having put it out there, it just encourages others to wreck the game.


You see derailment as someone making an incorrect statement, which can be met with a (politely phrased) corrective one. I see derailment as someone entering the discussion with a dishonest argument phrased to inflame.

quote:

No one can, nor did, dispute JWE/Symon's credentials. He would not have put up with this nonsense. Instead we have the usual suspects sprouting nonsense which is taken seriously as being valid.

Alfred


I didn't discuss his credentials, only your statement, and what people take as valid is their own responsibility. It's too bad you found no value in my post. I think you could.

I have nothing further to add to this discussion.

_____________________________

Calm down, dear boy! We're writers, not Vikings...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1474
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 7:05:18 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Remember this thread?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436371

Ideally, the turn should be re-done against level 7 (concrete) forts.

Also, think about saturation. If you have 100 Idas with 4 x 30 kg bombs each, and you arrive at once against a batalion of 50 devices, it means that ideally 400 bombs are dropped against 50 devices, which means ideally each devices can be hit 8 times, leading to battalion's disablement and destruction. But if Idas arrive in 4 waves of 25 bombers each due to rain/thunderstorms/bad leaders, you get 100 bombs against 50 devices, leading to no losses on the ground. I see it all the time in China.


< Message edited by Yaab -- 4/7/2021 7:16:27 AM >

(in reply to WriterNotViking)
Post #: 1475
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 7:44:26 AM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		Ah classic devs were gods argument. We mere mortals cant possibly understand what our omniscient gods have written in the code , how dare us!!!!!!!. Bro game is 11 years old and it still has major bugs , you can teleport units from west coast to India in a couple days ffs. Yes we mere mortals do not know actual algorithms written in code but if you mess around with editor enough you can somewhat understand how to manipulate values to get results you want. My suggestion of nerfing the rockets might not be %100 accurate but its much more balanced than 28 rocket boats causing 6k casualties in a bombardement , when you cant achieve such a result with 20 BB's in 1 day in same conditions.

If you could tell us mere mortals how algorithm works on these LCI Alfred we could maybe come up with better ideas :)

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 1476
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 9:05:39 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

Can we please stop with the insults? Surely we can have an interesting discussion or even an argument without resorting to playground behavior?

M-M, I believe the primary point of contention that is being leveled here is not that these weapons are not effective, it's that they should not be more effective than other bombardment tools also present in the game to a point that is clearly ahistorical. I think we all know enough about the Pacific War to see that an LCI(G) should not be more effective than a dozen heavy cruisers in bombardment, but if you think differently could you please explain why the USN went to such lengths to bring in large numbers of heavy warships for sustained bombardments very late into the war if they could have simply used a score of these craft in a single run?

I have studied artillery effects quite extensively in my professional life. The latest project I did directly tied to the subject was a few years back when I looked at the 2014 Zelenopillya attack. The main weakness of standard rocket artillery is the lack of penetrating capacity. Especially when we are talking about WW2 rockets, they are great against units on the surface with little cover but are extremely inaccurate and are very weak against units in bunkers. I assure you they are not nearly as powerful against dug in forces, especially if concrete emplacements are available, as large caliber howitzer or gun shells.


The cruisers are not being used in the same type of "bombardment". The results therefore should not be the same.

Alfred


This is worth highlighting. Regular bombardment impacts various targets (troops, port, airbase etc) while amphibious support is targeted at troops only.


quote:

ORIGINAL: WriterNotViking

This discussion is going nowhere, and I've been reading these forums long enough to recognize that some very old conflicts are being reiterated here. Discussions of game mechanics and whether or not something is working as designed are secondary to the question of whether this is a) historically accurate and, independently thereof, b) whether the ability to render fortified atoll garrisons entirely combat ineffective with a single turn's actions by LCI gunboats is balanced, purely in terms of gameplay. WITP:AE is a game, not a simulation, which means question b) can be debated without ever going under the hood to examine precise game mechanics. It is clearly understood by all that changes to the game will not be made, and no one is harmed if some reach the conclusion that a given mechanic or device is not balanced well. This is called a difference of opinion. We all already know the game is not perfect; we all love it anyway.

I find that this entire discussion was derailed at the start by the introduction of the straw man argument that the garrison was expected to drive the invaders into the sea (which Alfred bizarrely labeled a "very precise comment" ) I think it's time everyone take a step back and remember that you're posting in someone else's AAR, and the author is fully entitled to rant or raise issues of game balance when presented with disappointing results. If you want to disagree, there are respectful ways to do that, as other posters have done in this AAR and others. Mind_messing's dripping condescension and Alfred's weird lament that someone else isn't available to be even more inappropriately harsh than he already is do not clear this bar.

This seems like an excellent opportunity to share a reminder that having knowledge beyond the average does not entitle you to be unpleasant.


A) It is perfectly accurate, both to reality and history. Defending troops, for various reasons, react poorly to large quantities of high explosives delivered over a very short period.

B) It is balanced - there are counters to the LCI support variants. They have minimal AA and weapons for surface combat, no armour, are comparatively slow and short ranged. They are virtually useless outside of the narrow mission they are designed for, and an encounter with any "real" warship (including second and third line IJN escort ships) will almost certainly end badly for the LCI's. Similarly, a hit from virtually any IJ aircraft will inflict serious damage.

They're not an "I win" button for the Allies. Had the IJ chosen a different set of options, a single destroyer flotilla could have inflicted heavy losses on that task force (even more so given the single DE escort...).


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Remember this thread?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436371

Ideally, the turn should be re-done against level 7 (concrete) forts.

Also, think about saturation. If you have 100 Idas with 4 x 30 kg bombs each, and you arrive at once against a batalion of 50 devices, it means that ideally 400 bombs are dropped against 50 devices, which means ideally each devices can be hit 8 times, leading to battalion's disablement and destruction. But if Idas arrive in 4 waves of 25 bombers each due to rain/thunderstorms/bad leaders, you get 100 bombs against 50 devices, leading to no losses on the ground. I see it all the time in China.



Actual losses are not the correct metric to be looking at here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken

Ah classic devs were gods argument. We mere mortals cant possibly understand what our omniscient gods have written in the code , how dare us!!!!!!!. Bro game is 11 years old and it still has major bugs , you can teleport units from west coast to India in a couple days ffs. Yes we mere mortals do not know actual algorithms written in code but if you mess around with editor enough you can somewhat understand how to manipulate values to get results you want. My suggestion of nerfing the rockets might not be %100 accurate but its much more balanced than 28 rocket boats causing 6k casualties in a bombardement , when you cant achieve such a result with 20 BB's in 1 day in same conditions.

If you could tell us mere mortals how algorithm works on these LCI Alfred we could maybe come up with better ideas :)


Again, "casualties" is something of a misnomer in this context.

The actual pre-invasion toll was:

Squads: 54 destroyed, 353 disabled
Non Combat: 56 destroyed, 342 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 85 (15 destroyed, 70 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (4 destroyed, 13 disabled)

To me, this is consistent with a heavy saturation bombardment. Comparatively few of these devices are destroyed outright, but most are rendered unsuitable for immediate combat. With time, the vast majority of the troops on the atoll would return to combat effectiveness, but the Allies closed that option down.


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1477
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 9:12:00 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Worth also pointing out how nobody has mentioned that Marcus Island was heavily over-stacked.

IJN naval guards have a stacking cost of 1688. 3 of those gives 5064 stacking cost.

The JAAF AF unit has a stacking cost of 1015.

That brings you above the stacking of the island before the IJA regiment is taken into account (which will at least be in the 2000-3000 stack cost range).

Funny how Castor hasn't considered that over-stacking the island by at least 50% may have consequences...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1478
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 3:19:13 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Funny that the overstacked argument would not work with 26 6 inch gun but work with 26 4.5 inch rockets...

For a start the rocket range can be reduced well to its range: 1km . I wonder why was it doubled.


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 1479
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 3:46:20 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Folks! Please just ignore them. If you want to see an AAR going into late 45 or well into 46 you shouldn't keep feeding the trolls. I have green buttoned the first and am fully ignoring the second, I care more about the stuff I daily flush down the toilet than how I care about these two.

A monkey never shows up alone, so two we have. A day has passed and I see one has filled a page of the AAR and then the compagnion showed up and has filled a second full page with his endless nonsense quotes.

Admiral unescorted carrier task force can't handle the game and has shown he gets raped as IJ in 42. Thanks again for the AAR as prove. Was told he had a super superior opponent, wonder why the victims always get superior opponents? Yet he tells you how the game works, even worse, he always tries to tell you how real life worked, taking examples from the game.

Google search boy follows right away, having an oppinion on everything, posting literally in every thread. The typical internet jerker cumming when he gets applauded for digging up a ten year old thread that was no longer valid halve a year later. After a decade he now thinks he's an official Matrix member, he isn't. He thinks he is some kind of secret dev, he isn't. He thinks he has got some special relationship to devs, he hasn't. He thinks he got knowledge of the code, he hasn't (yet he tells forum members in every third post how wrong they are about the code). He thinks he got more clue about the game than anybody else on the forum, he hasn't. He hasn't even shown prove in over a decade after release that he even owns or plays the game. Anybody wondered why he can't do more than posting text and has yet to show an easy screenshot when a newbie asks something? There are enough people here that have played more PBEM turns than the spammer has posts on the forum yet he thinks he knows better. Well, he doesn't.

If the game would have King Kong included they would tell you King Kong could fly, because the devs made it so and therefor it has to be right. I wouldn't argue with someone telling me King Kong can fly or why it is in the game. I'd just tell him he's an idiot, forum rules or not. The fact that they argue on these rockets being ok as they are is the same as having King Kong flying airstrikes on Tokyo in the game. Idiots.

Again, if you don't keep feeding them, they will get silent. Ignorance is the worst for the internet monkeys and the jerker won't have something to jerk on.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/7/2021 3:49:39 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 1480
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 3:51:24 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Wow. Fun.

Any question about what is in the code will not be answered, so stop asking. There are still valid NDA's in place that prevent any info being disclosed.

The Dev's, back in the day, disclosed a little bit about certain portions of the code. Very little should be the emphasis here.

Everything else we know about the code is inferred from observations. However, most of us that make any statements always include 2 caveats:
1. There are random elements within almost all portions of the code, Gary is a firm believer in this.
2. Almost all of the alogrithms are multi-variant; very difficult to attribute outcomes to any single thing AND more importantly it is very difficult to even know what alogrithm you are inferring about. Bombardment is a perfect example; my guess is that there are at least 6 alogrithm's with this in the title/description ... would not be surprised if there were double that.

So, to summarize Alfred's comments above: the last two pages have been essentially a waste of space. Forget that you are looking at a single outcome, even if you add in posited other outcomes you are far short of the number that need to be looked at. Forget you have a dozen variables that you need to isolate, most of which are hard to do. The number ONE thing that you need to start your testing is that you need to have an expected outcome; meaning you need an expert resource that would be able to tell you that; or someone would need to do the considerable work to build an expected outcome based upon RL results from 1944 amphib operations. That is totally missing from the discussion, opinions abound, but that expert resource ...

There was a good observation made that the late war got a lot less testing as compared to the early war. I have no idea what/how much testing this alogrithm got during development. I can say that I can't remember this coming up as an item while Michael was making updates.


< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 4/7/2021 4:15:50 PM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 1481
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 3:59:20 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/7/2021 4:00:15 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1482
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:08:17 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

They got firepower roughly equal to 1 CA when you take the ammo in count, i have corrected that later but probably got lost in spam. Sorry for confusion

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1483
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:17:20 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

They got firepower roughly equal to 1 CA when you take the ammo in count, i have corrected that later but probably got lost in spam. Sorry for confusion


So is anybody seriously telling me that 120 of these 4.5 inch rockets should do as much damage as a heavy cruiser? Well, I'd say in the game they do even more damage because I wouldn't be as much worried about two dozen CA as I am about two dozen LCI(G), each worth one point and therefor not even targetted by attacks if their task force is attacked.

There is NO real life evidence of these ships or better say these rockets had anywhere even near the potential they have in the game, clearly because either something is not working or because of a database error. And when I look at these stats I'd way more lean towards a database error.

Over 1.5 mio of that kind of cheap rockets were built and you won't find a single example of them having achieved even nearly such an effect. They were cheap, they were plentiful, they could be employed anywhere, wonder why all war nations kept building mortars and artillery mainly when these cheap rockets could have won the war all on their own, deleting whole Armies in front of you.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/7/2021 4:19:53 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 1484
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:24:27 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline 		My theory on why these LCI's are so effective is ; Their extremely short range prevents them firing from very long range , if there is range buff/debuff firing from close range gives them a lot more accuracy. Where as Battleships , Cruisers etc. start bombarding at long range and they keep firing as they close in so they spend a lot of their ammo at medium-long range where they are not getting a lot of hits.

Extremely short range + a lot of devices firing + high soft attack = Hex deleting weapon.

Given that devs confirmed before giving a lot of bombs to aircraft is a bad idea for modders because more devices = more destroyed/disabled squads i am surprised they gave these LCI 120 device each instead of bundling them together

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 1485
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:25:44 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Oh dear ... I tried ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 1486
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:28:53 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Oh dear ... I tried ....

Its just a theory chill out

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1487
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:32:47 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

Castor: wrong answer or question depending upon how you want to look at it.

What is the expected result? I know you think you have a bad result, but what is the expected result and what is that expectation based upon? I'm not expert on this so I can't postulate this ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1488
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:32:51 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		4.5 rocket launcher




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 1489
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:38:42 PM   
Evoken

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 10/23/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

Castor: wrong answer or question depending upon how you want to look at it.

What is the expected result? I know you think you have a bad result, but what is the expected result and what is that expectation based upon? I'm not expert on this so I can't postulate this ....

Expectation for me would be; To not be more effective than vessels that throw extremely higher amounts of explosive at the enemy. 28 LCI(G) causing 6000 casualties , thats 214 soldiers wounded or dead per LCI (G)

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1490
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:41:33 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		When someone really tries to argue that the result we have seen are even close to ok, he might not know the real life difference of the beach barrage weapon on the LCI(G) and confuses this with a Nebelwerfer 42 or the like. The 4.5 inch island destroyer of the game has like 3kg explosives, 1km range and no penetrating power at all. It's purpose was to suppress the enemy during landing. That's what it did when it actually hit the enemy, in most cases (do the reading) it has hit empty space as most naval bombardments did too.

The Nebelwerfer 42 is 30cm and had something like 40kg explosive, 5km range and the shell had a total weight of over 100kg (going from memory, look it up if you want detailed stats). And now comes the ahhhhh, also the Nebelwerfer wasn't considered overly effective on heavily fortified positions. Where these weapons shine (to date) is when you catch the enemy in open terrain but not sitting in fortified positions. Otherwhise their main effect is suppressing the enemy, stunning them at best. But not disabling/destroying 100% of the defending troops.

Anybody noticing the difference of these two weapons?




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1491
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 4:46:27 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

Castor: wrong answer or question depending upon how you want to look at it.

What is the expected result? I know you think you have a bad result, but what is the expected result and what is that expectation based upon? I'm not expert on this so I can't postulate this ....


Expectation? Well, the expectation is to raise disruption on the defenders mostly, killing some squads, disabling some more. That's it. And that's exactly what the real life accounts show what these weapons did. Found no source at all where it states that these weapons did massive damage to the enemy, they did what they were designed to, suppress and deny an area to the enemy - at 1km range. The range alone makes it a lol.

If there is someone on the forum showing me a source where these ships (or even worse the LCT with over 700 rockets per ship) whiped out the defender, pls show me. Why was D-Day such a risky operation (the longest day?) when all it needed where these rocket ships. Hmmm, couldn't even find a source where these ships whiped the beaches in Normandy. How comes? Because that's not what they did, nor what anyone was expecting them to do.

It's not about me thinking I had a bad result. It's about having King Kong flying airstrikes in the game, or not.


< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/7/2021 4:47:45 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1492
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 5:29:06 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Iwo Jima campaign, gunfire support. Mentiones LCI(G) and other rocket armed ships several times, nothing there that is nearly close to what we have seen in this AAR. Usually it only mentions LCI(G) "supports". Or LCI(G) hit by gunfire of different calibre and heavily damaged. Nothing in there that says something like "targetted area with spotted enemy troops was obliberated by LCI(G)". If there were LCI(G) at Iwo Jima in real life, how couldn't they deliberate the island all on their own? Must be real life dev's fault, shame on him.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a637815.pdf

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/7/2021 5:31:23 PM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1493
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 7:25:52 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.


So what's the commonality between Wake and Marcus?

Right, they've both size 1 atolls.

Maybe bases which is deliberately limited by the game to be the smallest, most restrictive bases to garrison, where forts are hardcoded to size 6 and terrain functions as clear might not be the best place to repel a late-war Allied landing.

But no, it's not a poor allocation of resources - the game is bugged, things are unbalanced etc, etc


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

They got firepower roughly equal to 1 CA when you take the ammo in count, i have corrected that later but probably got lost in spam. Sorry for confusion


So is anybody seriously telling me that 120 of these 4.5 inch rockets should do as much damage as a heavy cruiser? Well, I'd say in the game they do even more damage because I wouldn't be as much worried about two dozen CA as I am about two dozen LCI(G), each worth one point and therefor not even targetted by attacks if their task force is attacked.

There is NO real life evidence of these ships or better say these rockets had anywhere even near the potential they have in the game, clearly because either something is not working or because of a database error. And when I look at these stats I'd way more lean towards a database error.

Over 1.5 mio of that kind of cheap rockets were built and you won't find a single example of them having achieved even nearly such an effect. They were cheap, they were plentiful, they could be employed anywhere, wonder why all war nations kept building mortars and artillery mainly when these cheap rockets could have won the war all on their own, deleting whole Armies in front of you.


I refer the reader to my opening statement in #1446.


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

When someone really tries to argue that the result we have seen are even close to ok, he might not know the real life difference of the beach barrage weapon on the LCI(G) and confuses this with a Nebelwerfer 42 or the like. The 4.5 inch island destroyer of the game has like 3kg explosives, 1km range and no penetrating power at all. It's purpose was to suppress the enemy during landing. That's what it did when it actually hit the enemy, in most cases (do the reading) it has hit empty space as most naval bombardments did too.


Castor, it did exactly what it was supposed to.

Emphasis mine:

Squads: 54 destroyed, 353 disabled
Non Combat: 56 destroyed, 342 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 85 (15 destroyed, 70 disabled)
Vehicles lost 17 (4 destroyed, 13 disabled)

The vast majority of squads and devices are disabled, not destroyed. Suppressed, dazed, wounded. Able to fight, but impaired at doing so.

With time and supply, all those squads could have recovered, but not with Allied troops unloading on to the island.

WAD.


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

Castor: wrong answer or question depending upon how you want to look at it.

What is the expected result? I know you think you have a bad result, but what is the expected result and what is that expectation based upon? I'm not expert on this so I can't postulate this ....


Expectation? Well, the expectation is to raise disruption on the defenders mostly, killing some squads, disabling some more. That's it. And that's exactly what the real life accounts show what these weapons did. Found no source at all where it states that these weapons did massive damage to the enemy, they did what they were designed to, suppress and deny an area to the enemy - at 1km range. The range alone makes it a lol.

If there is someone on the forum showing me a source where these ships (or even worse the LCT with over 700 rockets per ship) whiped out the defender, pls show me. Why was D-Day such a risky operation (the longest day?) when all it needed where these rocket ships. Hmmm, couldn't even find a source where these ships whiped the beaches in Normandy. How comes? Because that's not what they did, nor what anyone was expecting them to do.

It's not about me thinking I had a bad result. It's about having King Kong flying airstrikes in the game, or not.



This is the result we see in game. Relatively few devices destroyed outright, but widespread disruption and disablement to both the devices within a unit, and the LCU's as combat entities.

All this on an overstacked, clear terrain level 1 atoll.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1494
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/7/2021 7:59:01 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

They got firepower roughly equal to 1 CA when you take the ammo in count, i have corrected that later but probably got lost in spam. Sorry for confusion


I missed this correction. The core of my skepticism was based on the assumption that an LCI rocket craft had the bombardment equivalent of about ten heavy cruisers which you pointed out earlier. The rest could be up for debate, but I am glad that is not actually the case in the game as that would of course be absurd.

(in reply to Evoken)
Post #: 1495
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/8/2021 9:57:51 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evoken


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

But you do realize that it happened at Wake, 100% destroyed/disabled and then it happened at Marcus, 100% disabled/destroyed. Wake lvl 6 forts, not overstacked. Marcus lvl 6 forts, overstacked by a rgt as I hoped to have at least some troops left after the LCI(G) fired a real life barrage weapon with 3kg explosive, no penetrating power and 1km range.

You really think the next atoll will be different? Really? I guess Evoken has pointed it out previously, these LCI(G) do more damage than two dozen BBs can do in one go and we are even seriously discussing this if it's right or wrong? And I'm not referring to the two monkeys when I say we are discussing.

They got firepower roughly equal to 1 CA when you take the ammo in count, i have corrected that later but probably got lost in spam. Sorry for confusion


I missed this correction. The core of my skepticism was based on the assumption that an LCI rocket craft had the bombardment equivalent of about ten heavy cruisers which you pointed out earlier. The rest could be up for debate, but I am glad that is not actually the case in the game as that would of course be absurd.


Worth re-reading Alfred's post #1471 again before making any judgements on that front.

A CA (or BB, or any other valid ship type) conducting a bombardment mission targets multiple aspects of the base (port, airbase, docked ships etc).

LCI variants in an amphibious task force perform a different mission, and the targets are different as a result.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 1496
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/9/2021 6:58:51 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
Thanks for not further feeding them so here's the next day after the totally realistic and absolutely reasonable nuclear LCI(G) attack...



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Nov 01, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Marcus Island at 127,87

Japanese Ships
SS I-159, hits 8

Allied Ships
xAK Virginian
DE Cloues


no idea what kind of task force this unlucky sub met, might be the follow up troops for Marcus Island... moderate damage to the sub, retiring to Truk...

SS I-159 is sighted by escort
I-159 diving deep ....
DE Cloues fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Cloues attacking submerged sub ....
DE Cloues fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Cloues fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Cloues fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Marcus Island at 123,86

Japanese Ships
SS I-40, hits 2

Allied Ships
BB New Jersey
CL Montpelier
CL Honolulu
CL Trenton
CLAA Reno
DD Callaghan
DD Bearss
DD Caperton
DD Bryant
DD Boyd


I-40 tries to engage one of the CV TFs but is driven off...

SS I-40 is sighted by escort
DD Caperton fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Bryant attacking submerged sub ....
DD Boyd fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Caperton fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Bryant fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Boyd fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Boyd fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Boyd attacking submerged sub ....
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd attacking submerged sub ....
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd attacking submerged sub ....
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd attacking submerged sub ....
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
DD Boyd is out of ASW ammo
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Marcus Island at 118,84

Japanese Ships
CLAA Abukuma
CLAA Kinu
DD Kiyonami
DD Yamagiri
DD Umigiri
DD Akishimo
DD Hayashimo

Allied Ships
SS Whale


not pleased to see one of my CV TFs run over an enemy sub, the escorts did their job... got a dozen DDs and three CLAAs in the two main CV groups and the CLAAs also carry depth charges so we've got 14 ASW capable ships with each of the two CV groups... I don't expect the escorts to kill subs but to keep them from attacking or at least screening the carriers effectively...


SS Whale is sighted by escort
DD Yamagiri fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Umigiri fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Akishimo fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Hayashimo fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Yamagiri fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Marcus Island at 117,85

Japanese Ships
BB Musashi
DD Yudachi
DD Suzukaze
DD Umikaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Yamakaze

Allied Ships
SS Pargo, hits 1

that's the SAG with the evil twins as they close in on Marcus Island...


SS Pargo is sighted by escort
DD Suzukaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Umikaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Kawakaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamakaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Umikaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kawakaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Umikaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 120,85, Range 12,000 Yards




Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
CA Haguro
CA Nachi
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 7
CA Aoba, Shell hits 1
CA Kako
CL Yubari
DD Natsushio
DD Yukikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze
DD Shiranui
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Urakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hamakaze, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CV Intrepid, Shell hits 1, on fire
CV Franklin
CV Hancock, Shell hits 4
CVL Independence
CVL Belleau Wood
CVL Cowpens
CVL Monterey
CV Wasp, Shell hits 1, on fire
BB New Jersey, Shell hits 2
CLAA Oakland
CLAA Reno
CL Trenton
CL Honolulu, Shell hits 2
CL Phoenix
CL Montpelier
DD Beale
DD Bearss, Shell hits 1
DD Bell
DD Boyd
DD Bryant
DD Bullard
DD Callaghan
DD Caperton, Shell hits 1


holy sh*t... as we've ordered the cruiser and Yamato/Musashi SAG to engage the invasion shipping Mundy has apparantly ordered his carrier groups to close in on KB and our heavy cruisers run directly into a big USN carrier group... or should I say the carrier group ran into my cruisers? Looks like a well balanced task force with a modern BB, only CL Trenton doesn't really fit into there... we have Tanaka in command of the cruisers and we do get some hits in but it looks better than it actually was because to my total surprise the 20cm cruiser shells couldn't penetrate the deck of the Essex class carriers at 12,000 yards... guess the task force has literally fired all torpedoes, must have been hundreds but not a single one has hit a target... CA Kako was able to hit CV Wasp with a belt penetrating 20cm shell that caused some damage and also CV Hancock took one damaging 20cm shell... CV Intrepid probably took the most damage from a 20cm shell as she also suffered a fuel storage explosion right after...

not unusual, when a surface combat group meets enemy carriers one hopes to whipe the floor and so I also hoped for the best but in the end we couldn't do more than minor damage on the CV group as a whole... I'm sure Mundy had a high blood pressure during this engagement though...


Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 28,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 18,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 14,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Wasp at 12,000 yards
CA Aoba engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Intrepid at 12,000 yards
CA Myoko engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages CA Ashigara at 12,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages DD Tokitsukaze at 12,000 yards
DD Shiranui engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Maikaze engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Yukikaze at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Yukikaze at 12,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze engages DD Bearss at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Kako engages CV Wasp at 10,000 yards
CA Aoba engages CV Hancock at 10,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Franklin at 10,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Intrepid at 10,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CV Hancock at 10,000 yards
CA Myoko engages CV Hancock at 10,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CV Hancock at 10,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Hamakaze at 10,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages BB New Jersey at 10,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze engages DD Bearss at 10,000 yards
DD Shiranui engages DD Bryant at 10,000 yards
CL Honolulu engages CA Ashigara at 10,000 yards
DD Maikaze engages DD Bearss at 10,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CLAA Reno at 10,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CLAA Oakland at 10,000 yards
DD Caperton engages DD Maikaze at 10,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Hamakaze at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Wasp at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Hancock at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Hancock at 8,000 yards
CA Nachi engages CV Hancock at 8,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CVL Monterey at 8,000 yards
CA Myoko engages CV Hancock at 8,000 yards
DD Hamakaze engages DD Caperton at 8,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages CA Ashigara at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Montpelier at 8,000 yards
DD Shiranui engages DD Bearss at 8,000 yards
CL Honolulu engages DD Isokaze at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Trenton at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CLAA Reno at 8,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Caperton at 8,000 yards
DD Caperton engages DD Natsushio at 8,000 yards
DD Boyd engages DD Shiranui at 8,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Bearss at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Wasp at 6,000 yards
CA Aoba engages CV Hancock at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CV Hancock at 6,000 yards
CA Nachi engages CV Intrepid at 6,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CVL Monterey at 6,000 yards
CL Yubari engages CVL Belleau Wood at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CVL Independence at 6,000 yards
DD Urakaze engages BB New Jersey at 6,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze engages DD Caperton at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Phoenix at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Honolulu at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CL Trenton at 6,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CLAA Reno at 6,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Bearss at 6,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Bullard at 6,000 yards
DD Maikaze engages DD Beale at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara collides with DD Hamakaze at 120 , 85
CA Kako engages CV Wasp at 8,000 yards
CA Aoba engages CV Hancock at 8,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages CV Franklin at 8,000 yards
Fuel storage explosion on CV Intrepid
CA Ashigara engages CV Intrepid at 8,000 yards
CA Haguro engages CVL Monterey at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CVL Belleau Wood at 8,000 yards
DD Bearss engages DD Urakaze at 8,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze engages DD Caperton at 8,000 yards
DD Shiranui engages DD Bearss at 8,000 yards
CL Honolulu engages CA Ashigara at 8,000 yards
DD Bullard engages DD Maikaze at 8,000 yards
CLAA Reno engages CA Ashigara at 8,000 yards
CA Ashigara engages CLAA Oakland at 8,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/9/2021 6:59:26 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1497
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/9/2021 7:19:36 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 120,85, Range 30,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato
BB Musashi
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Maya
DD Shiratsuyu
DD Shigure
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CV Ticonderoga
CV Reprisal
CVL Cabot
CVL Langley
CVL Bataan
CVL San Jacinto
CV Philippine Sea
BB Iowa
CA Boston
CLAA Atlanta
CLAA Juneau
CL Denver
CL Santa Fe
CL Miami
DD Brush
DD Cooper
DD English
DD Lyman K. Swenson
DD Taussig
DD Fletcher
DD Aulick
DD Charles Ausburne


when Tanaka engaged witht the heavy cruisers I knew we had the evil twins following on the heels and here they are trying to engage the second big Allied carrier group that pretty much has the same setup as the one the cruisers engaged... these two carrier groups carry over 900 aircraft and there is at least one CVE group around Marcus Island so the Allied most likely field 1300 or more carrier based aircraft... OMG and they are directly moving towards KB during the night with KB also being ordered closer to Marcus to cover the retiring SAGs... if the Allied launch a major strike we might have a real problem during the day, all our bombers are set to ASW with the fighters on CAP after yesterday's Great Marcus Island Turkey Shoot...

we tried to make contact after radar detected the enemy but the carrier group was able to evade...


Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 25,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 25,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 15,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 10,000 yards
Allied TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 18,000 yards
Range increases to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 22,000 yards
Range increases to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 26,000 yards
Range increases to 30,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 30,000 yards
Range increases to 30,000 yards...
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Allied Air Combat TF evades combat


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 121,85, Range 12,000 Yards




Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
BB Musashi, Shell hits 8
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Maya
DD Shiratsuyu, Shell hits 2
DD Shigure
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CV Intrepid, on fire
CV Franklin
CV Hancock, Shell hits 1, on fire
CVL Independence
CVL Belleau Wood, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Cowpens, Shell hits 1
CVL Monterey, Shell hits 1
CV Wasp, Shell hits 2, on fire
BB New Jersey, Shell hits 1
CLAA Oakland
CLAA Reno
CL Trenton
CL Honolulu
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 1
CL Montpelier
DD Beale
DD Bearss
DD Bell
DD Boyd
DD Bryant
DD Bullard
DD Callaghan
DD Caperton


but there was also the second carrier group that has been attacked by the cruisers already and after radar has picked them up the evil twins were closing in... I can't say the gunnery was superb and even at 6,000 yards all torps still failed to hit even damaged ships but both Yamato and Musashi scored 46cm on carriers and also on BB New Jersey... this engagement clearly showed what a great weapon the Yamatos are for naval engagements as the modern BB New Jersey wasn't able to penetrate Yamatos armor even at 7,000 yards... I didn't expect Yamato to bounce 16inch shells at that range... non of the BBs took any damage expect some scratches, DD Shiratsuyu is burning from two 5inch shells from the CVs... the majority of hits on our ships were coming from the 5inch turrets of the enemy carriers...

CVL Bellau Wood is most likely not able to operate aircraft anymore...


Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 28,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 18,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 14,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Franklin at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CV Intrepid at 12,000 yards
CA Tone engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages CVL Independence at 12,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Harusame engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Trenton at 12,000 yards
DD Shigure engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CLAA Oakland at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Umikaze at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages CVL Cowpens at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Belleau Wood at 12,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Phoenix at 12,000 yards
DD Harusame engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Murasame engages DD Beale at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CLAA Reno at 12,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Beale at 12,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Callaghan at 12,000 yards
DD Bullard engages DD Shiratsuyu at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Boyd engages DD Shigure at 12,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Bell at 12,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Beale at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Wasp at 10,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Franklin at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Intrepid at 10,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages CVL Cowpens at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Belleau Wood at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Independence at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages BB New Jersey at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Montpelier at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Phoenix at 10,000 yards
DD Callaghan engages DD Harusame at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Trenton at 10,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Bryant at 10,000 yards
CLAA Oakland engages CA Maya at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Bullard at 10,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Shiratsuyu at 10,000 yards
DD Harusame engages DD Boyd at 10,000 yards
DD Bell engages DD Murasame at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Hancock at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 6,000 yards
CA Maya engages CV Hancock at 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Monterey at 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Cowpens at 6,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Bryant at 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Independence at 6,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Yamakaze at 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Montpelier at 6,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CL Phoenix at 6,000 yards
DD Harusame engages CL Honolulu at 6,000 yards
DD Murasame engages DD Bullard at 6,000 yards
DD Shigure engages CLAA Reno at 6,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Boyd at 6,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Shigure at 6,000 yards
DD Boyd engages DD Shiratsuyu at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Wasp at 7,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages BB Yamato at 7,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CA Maya at 7,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CV Hancock at 7,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 122,85, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
BB Musashi, Shell hits 3
CA Tone
CA Chikuma, Shell hits 1
CA Maya, Shell hits 1
DD Shiratsuyu, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Shigure
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi, Shell hits 1
DD Samidare
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CV Intrepid, on fire
CV Franklin, Shell hits 2
CV Hancock, Shell hits 2, on fire
CVL Independence, Shell hits 1
CVL Cowpens, Shell hits 2
CVL Monterey, Shell hits 1
CV Wasp, on fire
BB New Jersey, Shell hits 2
CLAA Oakland, Shell hits 1
CLAA Reno, Shell hits 1
CL Trenton
CL Honolulu
CL Phoenix
CL Montpelier, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Beale
DD Bearss
DD Bell
DD Boyd
DD Bryant, Shell hits 1
DD Bullard
DD Callaghan, Shell hits 1
DD Caperton


it's not over yet as the enemy carrier groups now seem to retreat and we meet them again in the adjacent hex...

while we scored some hits this time there was nothing really worth mentioning as most of the hits did literally no damage... seeing the Allied carriers fleeing to the East now might mean it could have saved KB from a major Allied airstrike... CVL Bellau Wood was already split off the task force...


Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 28,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 18,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 14,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CV Franklin at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CV Hancock at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Monterey at 12,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CVL Cowpens at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages BB New Jersey at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CL Montpelier at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Samidare at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Yudachi at 12,000 yards
DD Harusame engages CL Trenton at 12,000 yards
CA Tone engages CLAA Reno at 12,000 yards
CA Tone engages CLAA Oakland at 12,000 yards
DD Caperton engages DD Samidare at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages DD Bullard at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Bell at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant collides with CL Honolulu at 122 , 85
BB Musashi engages CV Wasp at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages BB New Jersey at 12,000 yards
CLAA Reno engages CA Chikuma at 12,000 yards
CLAA Reno engages CA Tone at 12,000 yards
DD Harusame engages CVL Cowpens at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages CVL Independence at 12,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Bullard at 12,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages DD Yamakaze at 12,000 yards
DD Caperton engages DD Samidare at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CL Trenton at 12,000 yards
CLAA Reno engages CA Maya at 12,000 yards
CLAA Oakland engages DD Shigure at 12,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Bryant at 12,000 yards
DD Callaghan engages DD Harusame at 12,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Yudachi at 12,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Yamakaze at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages BB Musashi at 11,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages CV Hancock at 11,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages CV Franklin at 11,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CLAA Reno at 11,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages CVL Monterey at 11,000 yards
DD Samidare engages CVL Cowpens at 11,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Callaghan at 11,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages BB Yamato at 11,000 yards
CL Montpelier engages DD Yamakaze at 11,000 yards
DD Bullard engages DD Samidare at 11,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages DD Bryant at 11,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL Trenton at 11,000 yards
CLAA Reno engages CA Chikuma at 11,000 yards
BB New Jersey engages DD Shigure at 11,000 yards
DD Caperton engages DD Shiratsuyu at 11,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Callaghan at 11,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Bullard at 11,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Bryant at 11,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Bearss at 11,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Harusame at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
BB Musashi engages CLAA Reno at 9,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages CV Hancock at 9,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages CV Franklin at 9,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages CLAA Oakland at 9,000 yards
DD Harusame engages CVL Monterey at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Bryant at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages CVL Independence at 9,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Bearss at 9,000 yards
CA Maya engages CL Montpelier at 9,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Bryant at 9,000 yards
DD Beale engages DD Yudachi at 9,000 yards
DD Harusame engages DD Bullard at 9,000 yards
DD Murasame engages DD Bryant at 9,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Bearss at 9,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Shiratsuyu at 9,000 yards
DD Harusame engages DD Callaghan at 9,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Beale at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
BB Musashi engages BB New Jersey at 13,000 yards
BB Yamato engages CV Hancock at 13,000 yards
CA Maya engages CV Franklin at 13,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages CV Intrepid at 13,000 yards
CA Tone engages CL Montpelier at 13,000 yards
DD Bryant engages DD Suzukaze at 13,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 123,85, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, heavy fires
BB Musashi
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Maya
DD Shiratsuyu, heavy fires
DD Shigure
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
DD Wickes, Shell hits 1
AP Gen. C.G.Morton, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
AK Durham Victory, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Elmira Victory, Shell hits 10, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Vehicles lost 10 (5 destroyed, 5 disabled)


to my surprise Tanaka had ordered his heavy cruisers to leave the scene already as it were only the evil twins pushing on further to engage enemy shipping at the invasion beaches... this looked like an odd task force that was easily dispatched, it was frustrating to see one 46cm salvo after another being fired at these ships though when the carriers would have been a way better target... both Yamato and Shiratsuyu were only on fire at the start of the engagement but if the combats last forever fires go worse and both are now heavily burning... oh well...


Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 100% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 28,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 28,000 yards
Range closes to 26,000 yards...
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 24,000 yards
Range closes to 22,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 16,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
Hirata, Noboru crosses the 'T'
BB Musashi engages AP Gen. C.G.Morton at 11,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages AP Gen. C.G.Morton at 11,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Samidare at 11,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Shigure at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Wickes at 12,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages AP Gen. C.G.Morton at 12,000 yards
CA Maya engages AP Gen. C.G.Morton at 12,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Suzukaze at 12,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Samidare at 12,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Murasame at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Musashi engages AP Gen. C.G.Morton at 8,000 yards
AP Gen. C.G.Morton sunk by BB Yamato at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages AK Elmira Victory at 8,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 6,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Wickes at 6,000 yards
CA Tone engages DD Wickes at 6,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Umikaze at 6,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages DD Wickes at 6,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages AK Elmira Victory at 8,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Yudachi at 8,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Shigure at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages AK Elmira Victory at 9,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
DD Harusame engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Harusame at 10,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages AK Elmira Victory at 8,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Wickes at 8,000 yards
DD Harusame engages AK Durham Victory at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages AK Elmira Victory at 10,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Harusame at 10,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Shigure at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
BB Musashi engages AK Elmira Victory at 9,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages AK Durham Victory at 9,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages AK Durham Victory at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages AK Durham Victory at 10,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages AK Durham Victory at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages AK Elmira Victory at 10,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages AK Durham Victory at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
BB Musashi engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
BB Yamato engages AK Elmira Victory at 11,000 yards
CA Maya engages AK Durham Victory at 11,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
DD Samidare engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
DD Shigure engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
BB Musashi engages AK Elmira Victory at 10,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Samidare engages AK Elmira Victory at 10,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Murasame at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
CA Tone engages DD Wickes at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
AK Elmira Victory sunk by BB Yamato at 10,000 yards
CA Maya engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Wickes at 10,000 yards
DD Wickes engages DD Samidare at 10,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1498
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/9/2021 7:31:43 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Marcus Island at 121,85




Japanese Ships
SS RO-64

Allied Ships
CVL Belleau Wood, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage


as expected Belleau Wood was split off it's task force and the engine decided it wasn't even worth assigning her a destroyer as escort and we had one of our small RO boats detecting the burning light carrier... a spread of six torps sees two fish hitting the CVL sending her to the bottom... BANZAI!


CVL Belleau Wood is sighted by SS RO-64
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Belleau Wood
SS RO-64 launches 6 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Marcus Island at 123,85, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Musashi
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Maya
DD Shiratsuyu, on fire
DD Shigure
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
DE LeRay Wilson, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DE Hilbert, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DE Bangust, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DE Lamons, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
LSV Ozark
LSV Monitor
APA John Land, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
APA Golden City
APA Winged Arrow, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
APA Herald of Morning, Shell hits 2, on fire
APA Knox, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
APA Lamar, Shell hits 30, and is sunk
APA Leon, Shell hits 41, and is sunk
APA Haskell, Shell hits 5, on fire
APA Hendry, Shell hits 1
APA Highlands, Shell hits 15, heavy fires
APA La Porte
APA Latimer, Shell hits 5, on fire
APA Laurens, Shell hits 3, on fire
AK Bedford Victory
AK Bluefield Victory
AK Australian Victory
AK Manderson Victory
AK Navajo Victory
AKA Tolland
AKA Vinton
AKA Valencia
AKA Stokes
AKA Todd
LSM-99
LCI-65
LCI-66
LCI-67
LCI-69
LCI-70
LCI(G)-77
LCI(G)-78
LCI(G)-81
LCI(G)-82
LCI(G)-220
LCI(G)-365
LCI(G)-366
LCI(G)-372
LCI(G)-373
LCI(G)-396
LCI-764, Shell hits 1


right after sinking the light carrier we see the evil twins still being up for some trouble this time engaging the main Allied amphib task force also including a good number of LCI(G)... wonder where the rest of the floating Battlestars are, of course our ships don't even engage them because they are only worth 1 pt each so not worth shooting at... getting a good number of the ridicoulos ships was the main reason to send in our SAGs... while our task force does an ok job and sinks or heavily damages the destroyer escorts and several other ships I couldn't believe seeing a DE scoring a torpedo hit on Yamato... guess our two task forces fired hundred torpedoes (90% spent) we only scored one hit and when this DE tried only once the bugger scores immediately...

Yamato shrugs it off and that single torp shouldn't be a tragedy when the task force finally breaks off after having spent more or less all of it's main ammo... fires on both Yamato and Shiratsuyu were under control at the end of the engagement, non of the two were still reported being heavily on fire as the retreat to the NW...


Improved night sighting under 96% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 96% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 25,000 yards
Allied ships attempt to get underway
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 25,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 10,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 10,000 yards
LCI-749 collides with LCI-584 at 123 , 85
BB Musashi engages DE Bangust at 10,000 yards
CA Maya engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
CA Tone engages APA Laurens at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Murasame engages APA Haskell at 10,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Leon at 10,000 yards
DD Samidare engages LCI-764 at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CA Maya engages DE Lamons at 8,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA Haskell at 8,000 yards
CA Maya engages DE Hilbert at 8,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
CA Tone engages APA Haskell at 8,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Highlands at 8,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Leon at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Knox at 8,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Winged Arrow at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CA Maya engages DE Lamons at 5,000 yards
DE Bangust engages BB Yamato at 5,000 yards
CA Maya engages DE Hilbert at 5,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Laurens at 5,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages APA Highlands at 5,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
DD Murasame engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
DD Shigure engages APA Leon at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
Massive explosion on DE Lamons
CA Chikuma engages DE Lamons at 3,000 yards
BB Yamato engages DE Bangust at 3,000 yards
BB Musashi engages DE Hilbert at 3,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages DE LeRay Wilson at 3,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Laurens at 3,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Lamar at 3,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Lamar at 3,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Highlands at 3,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Hendry at 3,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Lamar at 3,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages APA Lamar at 3,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Winged Arrow at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Musashi engages APA Lamar at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA Lamar at 4,000 yards
CA Maya engages APA Lamar at 4,000 yards
DE LeRay Wilson sunk by CA Maya at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA Latimer at 4,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages APA Highlands at 4,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages APA Hendry at 4,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Lamar at 4,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Lamar at 4,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Herald of Morning at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA Winged Arrow at 4,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA John Land at 4,000 yards
Hirata, Noboru orders Japanese TF to disengage
BB Yamato engages DE Bangust at 4,000 yards
APA Lamar sunk by CA Maya at 4,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Latimer at 4,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages APA Highlands at 4,000 yards
DD Shiratsuyu engages APA Herald of Morning at 4,000 yards
DD Shigure engages APA Golden City at 4,000 yards
DD Samidare engages AKA Stokes at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages DE Bangust at 9,000 yards
DD Murasame engages APA Latimer at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Highlands at 9,000 yards
DD Kawakaze engages APA Haskell at 9,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Knox at 9,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Knox at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA John Land at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Yudachi engages APA Laurens at 12,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages APA La Porte at 12,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Haskell at 12,000 yards
DD Yamakaze engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Samidare engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Harusame engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Murasame engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
DD Shigure engages APA Knox at 12,000 yards
BB Yamato engages LCI-69 at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Marcus Island at 123,85

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-11

Allied Ships
LCI(G)-464


can't you just hit the damn bugger?


LCI(G)-464 is sighted by SSX Ha-11
SSX Ha-11 launches 2 torpedoes at LCI(G)-464


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Marcus Island at 124,86

Japanese Ships
SS I-40, hits 9, heavy damage

Allied Ships
AP Gen. G.M.Randall
AP Gen. W.H.Gordon
DD Cassin Young


I-40 tries on a big AP but missed, taking heavy damage in return... gonna head for Truk...


SS I-40 launches 2 torpedoes at AP Gen. G.M.Randall
I-40 diving deep ....
DD Cassin Young attacking submerged sub ....
DD Cassin Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Cassin Young fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/9/2021 7:32:05 PM >

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Post #: 1499
RE: AAR 1944 - 4/9/2021 7:39:18 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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Sub attack near Marcus Island at 123,87




Japanese Ships
SS RO-63, hits 4

Allied Ships
CVL Cowpens, Torpedo hits 1
BB New Jersey
CL Montpelier
CL Trenton
CLAA Reno
CLAA Oakland
DD Callaghan
DD Bullard
DD Boyd
DD Beale
DD Caperton
DD Bryant



another of our cheap RO-boats gets into one of the CV groups and hits Cowpens which was already hit once by a torp yesterday... again, only one out of six hit the CVL and the light carrier still doesn't seem to be really impressed... not gonna complain as the sub gets away lightly damaged after hitting the CVL...


SS RO-63 launches 6 torpedoes at CVL Cowpens
RO-63 diving deep ....
DD Caperton attacking submerged sub ....
DD Bryant fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Caperton fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Bryant fails to find sub and abandons search
Escort abandons search for sub


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ASW attack near Agrihan at 116,82

Japanese Ships
DD Isokaze
CA Kako
CA Aoba
CA Ashigara
CA Nachi
CA Haguro
CA Myoko
CL Yubari
DD Maikaze
DD Yukikaze
DD Natsushio
DD Urakaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Shiranui

Allied Ships
SS Batfish


the escorts succesfully screened the cruisers, good work...


SS Batfish launches 2 torpedoes at DD Isokaze
Batfish diving deep ....
DD Urakaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Tokitsukaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Shiranui fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Shiranui fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Shiranui fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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Submarine attack near Guam at 105,94

Japanese Ships
TK Akane Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Trepang


the f*ck... wondered why there was no escorts as I had plenty of E there and realized it's halve of the tankers that were bringing fuel to Guam that were docked and retired after being fully unloaded... the other undocked halve had all the escorts... my mistake, have split off these tankers and forgot to set them to patrol... the TK made Guam but will never be able to move out again due to the suffered damage I guess...

TK Akane Maru is sighted by SS Trepang
SS Trepang launches 4 torpedoes at TK Akane Maru


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Sub attack near Torishima at 108,66

Japanese Ships
PB Akagane Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
PB Eiko Maru #2
xAK Taizan Maru
xAK Yosida Maru #3
xAK Unyo Maru #2
PB Kensin Maru
PB Hirota Maru
PB Hakakisan Maru

Allied Ships
SS Ling


looks like Allied subs strike back but as long as they don't hit my carriers...


SS Ling launches 2 torpedoes at PB Akagane Maru
Ling diving deep ....
PB Kensin Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Hirota Maru attacking submerged sub ....
PB Hakakisan Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Hirota Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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ASW attack near Marcus Island at 130,85

Japanese Ships
SS I-45, hits 7

Allied Ships
DE Stafford
DE Straus


that's really the worst decision always as it just means missing a chance and still always being attacked by the escorts... 7 hits and the sub has to retire... fear the DEs more than DDs...


Captain of SS I-45 elects not to launch torpedoes at this target
I-45 diving deep ....
DE Straus fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Straus fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Straus fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Straus fails to find sub, continues to search...
DE Straus attacking submerged sub ....
Escort abandons search for sub



Attachment (1)

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