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This was... - 9/15/2019 5:28:52 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline 		...a cool one - I think:

In-between play the Rookie II-thread and editing the Brisbane Evening Star I took the time to open a game against the allied AI. Partly because I haven't tried that before and partly because I wanted to have a look at how the Japanese side works - in general. I was quite surprised at how much it was to keep track of on that side, at least in the beginning, and what resources were at hand.

Anyway, V.Adm. Nagumo decided to repeat his PH attack twice and after that he loitered a few days north-east of PH to catch any fat fishes fleeing to the West Coast. He did - West Virginia and Colorado passed by - and were stopped dead. So were a few others. After that the Admiral released three of his carriers and their tankers to return to Japan. With the three remaining carriers he moved towards the north-east and positioned himself about one-third of the distance to the West Coast.

Yesterday, air reconnaissance detected ships approaching in north-east and this morning the plotting chart looked like the picture below. Talk about being in the eye of the storm. I suppose he shall whisk his tankers toward the north-west, his carriers, too, if not so fast, and use a couple of his escorts to create some havoc among the sheep's flock.

While only a couple of enemy fighting ships have been detected, there might be others among the sheep. We shall see.

Fred

December 18th 1941:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Leandros -- 9/15/2019 5:31:29 PM >

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf
Post #: 1
And this one: - 9/15/2019 5:46:17 PM   
Leandros


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In the Moluccas it was almost as interesting. After the invasion of Menado three days ago air reconnaissance was immediately activated and right away a stream of enemy transports and small support ships were detected fleeing south through the Macassar Strait. The point of the column was east of Balikpapan with the tail east of Tarakan. In all more than two dozen ships.

Unfortunately, few fighting ships were available as most had spent their ammo while supporting the landings in Menado and Ambon. There were, however, a CVL and CVE available in Ambon. These were dispatched to the southern bay on Celebes where they were within reach of the Strait - see picture. At this point some had escaped out the southern approaches and some damaged have probably sought shelter in Balikpapan and Samarinda. Dutch Martin 139-bombers flying from Samarinda attacked the task force this morning, with no luck.

Sitmap evening December 18th 1941.:






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 2
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 6:44:53 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		When you let the wolves in with the sheep, break your carrier air into thirds. When attacking DDs and merchants, set the Kates to 1000 feet with bombs. You really get to stomp on a lot of bugs that way. The Vals will have a 10% or 20% search which will automatically see anything within 4 hexes. Only when you see the BBs and modern cruisers should you set your Kates to torpedoes.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 3
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 6:57:46 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline 		Tks for the advice....I'm really just testing and cannot use time on several active scenarios..

Fred

< Message edited by Leandros -- 9/15/2019 6:59:14 PM >

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 4
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 7:26:38 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Well, I am currently playing Japan and that is what I have been doing against the computer. The scoreboard in May of 1942 shows that I have sunk over 800 Allied ships . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 5
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 8:42:26 PM   
Leandros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Well, I am currently playing Japan and that is what I have been doing against the computer. The scoreboard in May of 1942 shows that I have sunk over 800 Allied ships . . .

I have set them up according to your advice - could be there is a carrier trailing that large group of ships, though. Saratoga was supposedly on the West Coast. The air complements are rather worn down by now.

We shall see.

Fred


_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 6
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 9:14:31 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Unless you have different scripts, Saratoga will not show up.

The Enterprise TF blundered into a mini-sub carrier returning to get another mini-sub. Eight torpedoes but only two hit. But one was a fuel storage explosion and the other one was an ammo storage explosion. So a barbeque with fireworks and two days later she sank.

The USS Lexington being sunk was the Emperor's Christmas present . . .

By the way, instead of going to the Home Islands, return to Kwajalein or Truk so you can support operations there. Or go back and sink US divisions . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 7
RE: And this one: - 9/15/2019 9:21:25 PM   
Leandros


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Thank you! As I wrote I am not going to develop this very much but at a later stage I would like to play as the Japanese but not against the AI. That is simply too foreseeable. Like you said: It's not in the script. No problem to sink 800 ships if you know the script..... Or what?

First I need to make August 7th 1942 in the Rookie II-game. Terry is giving me a hard time!

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 8
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 12:43:15 AM   
Dili

 

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Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Torpedo bombers have too much hits against ships with bombs. Completely unrealistic.

(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 9
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 1:19:06 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Torpedo bombers have too much hits against ships with bombs. Completely unrealistic.


I did not write the code. Besides, 1000 feet is not that high. Destroyers dodge quite a few but slower and less maneuverable ships do not. Also, because they are not dropping torpedoes they can fly faster.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 10
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 12:06:24 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		This is how you break the AI.

The AI is following scripts to return damaged ships to the WC.

It doesn't have the savvy to recognize what is going on and react adequately.

It will lose many, many ships before it finally reacts by stopping the flow.

It's very easy to do similar unpredictable things to the Japanese AI and break it as well.

It may be a fun thing to experiment with, but it doesn't lend itself to getting an extended play game out of the AI.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 11
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 7:49:39 PM   
Leandros


Posts: 1740
Joined: 3/5/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I did not write the code. Besides, 1000 feet is not that high. Destroyers dodge quite a few but slower and less maneuverable ships do not. Also, because they are not dropping torpedoes they can fly faster.

Hey, Joe...it sure as h*** worked....

Does this apply to allied torpedo-bombers, too?

Fred

_____________________________

River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book on Operation Sea Lion - www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - a book series on how The Philippines were saved - in 1942! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D34QCWQ/?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&ref=series_rw_dp_labf

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 12
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 8:55:56 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leandros


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I did not write the code. Besides, 1000 feet is not that high. Destroyers dodge quite a few but slower and less maneuverable ships do not. Also, because they are not dropping torpedoes they can fly faster.

Hey, Joe...it sure as h*** worked....

Does this apply to allied torpedo-bombers, too?

Fred



Yes, but Ranger Joe missed the point being made by the poster who brought it up.

Torpedo bombers drop to 200 ft to release their fish from whatever altitude you send them in at. The default altitude the game engine assigns them is 6K. They can level bomb from 6k with an uncanny degree of accuracy no other plane type in the game can achieve. They don't have to go in at 1k to get unrealistic results in accuracy.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Leandros)
Post #: 13
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 10:14:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I leave the dive bombers at 10,000 feet since their release point is much lower, I just use the torpedo bombers at 1000 feet.

Edit: the Devestators only drop 4 500lb bombs. A bunch of those can make a Japanese BB burn to the water line. The way that fire is put out then is for the BB to submerge . . .

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 9/16/2019 10:17:07 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 14
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 10:32:59 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Any torpedo bomber can gets many more hits with a bomb than with own torpedo. And can level bomb with more hits than level bombers with many more bombs - which is another can of worms.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 15
RE: And this one: - 9/16/2019 11:17:37 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		The Avenger normally carried 4 500 pound bombs as a bomb load. Against shipping, it did not always carry torpedoes which were not that plentiful during the war.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 16
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 2:29:04 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Not my point. Probably due to this issue all torpedo bombers should be classified level bomber. I think they will still work on carriers if they are made carrier capable.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 3:25:34 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I leave the dive bombers at 10,000 feet since their release point is much lower, I just use the torpedo bombers at 1000 feet.

Edit: the Devestators only drop 4 500lb bombs. A bunch of those can make a Japanese BB burn to the water line. The way that fire is put out then is for the BB to submerge . . .

Small adjustment here - Devastators only carry two X 500 lb bombs. The Avenger does carry four such bombs.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 18
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 12:08:28 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		The point Dili and I are making here is that Torpedo bombers have always had a greater level of accuracy when level bombing than the pilots level bombing skills would justify. It an apparent game design flaw that has been present from the beginning.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 19
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 1:41:12 PM   
johnbmac

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The point Dili and I are making here is that Torpedo bombers have always had a greater level of accuracy when level bombing than the pilots level bombing skills would justify. It an apparent game design flaw that has been present from the beginning.

Does that include Kate's?

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 20
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 2:41:47 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		That is what I am using, 9 Kates with 13 bomb hits on an already damaged CL Columbo.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to johnbmac)
Post #: 21
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 3:02:00 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: johnbmac


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The point Dili and I are making here is that Torpedo bombers have always had a greater level of accuracy when level bombing than the pilots level bombing skills would justify. It an apparent game design flaw that has been present from the beginning.

Does that include Kate's?


Yes, every aircraft classified as torpedo bomber.

(in reply to johnbmac)
Post #: 22
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 3:03:19 PM   
Dili

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That is what I am using, 9 Kates with 13 bomb hits on an already damaged CL Columbo.



You would not be able to put 9 fish in her.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 23
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 3:22:15 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

That is what I am using, 9 Kates with 13 bomb hits on an already damaged CL Columbo.



You would not be able to put 9 fish in her.


I did not state fish or torpedoes, I stated bombs. More precisely, 250 kg bombs. One torpedo weighs a lot more than 500 kg, if I remember correctly.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 24
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 4:31:07 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I was just implying that those 9 torpedo bombers would have much less chance to hit with torpedoes...

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 25
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 4:51:52 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I was just implying that those 9 torpedo bombers would have much less chance to hit with torpedoes...


That is one reason why I use bombs. There is a limited supply of torpedoes and against these targets, bombs are good enough.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 26
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 4:57:19 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I was just implying that those 9 torpedo bombers would have much less chance to hit with torpedoes...


That is one reason why I use bombs. There is a limited supply of torpedoes and against these targets, bombs are good enough.



I bow to the master of the non sequitur.



_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 27
RE: And this one: - 9/17/2019 8:47:39 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		If you have never played the Japanese before against the AI or human, it is death by 10,000 clicks to start and run the economy. I have played as the Japanese, possibly a dozen times, and it is a challenge to run and not ruin the economy. It is a critical inside the conflict

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 28
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