RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs

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RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/13/2019 8:31:21 PM

Dreamslayer

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The evacuation of the Hanko garrison troops started 23 October, the last transports left the naval base 2 December. The troops was transported to the islands of Baltic sea, Kronshtadt and Leningrad. From Hanko was evacuated about 20k men total, some guns, tanks, ammo, provisions,coal etc.
The main threat for transports during the evacuation there was the minefields not the Finnish fleet.

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Post #: 91

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/13/2019 8:43:06 PM

morvael

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I understand Finland wasn't very active in storming the base? I guess it will never happen with players in control. I guess the base should be represented as HQ + moving unit frozen for a while, so that it could be evacuated by sea when left unmolested. And Helsinki's port should be weaker. A minor historical inconsistency.

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Post #: 92

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/13/2019 8:46:30 PM

morvael

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Don't get me wrong. It should be represented better, but it's a scenario design issue, not a game system issue. Even within its limitations it should be possible to represent this better.

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Post #: 93

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/13/2019 9:26:05 PM

Dreamslayer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I understand Finland wasn't very active in storming the base? I guess it will never happen with players in control.

I think that Finns did not want to has more losses if they tried to normally assault(storm) the base before the winter.
The base was enaugh protected from the land (it is the elongated peninsula), had enough combatants, various frortifications, coastal batteries, even large calibre RR-batteries (3 TM-3-12(305mm) and 4 TM-1-180(180mm)).
The main reason why the Soviet troops left Hanko was not(or not only) the supply case.
1)After the fall of Tallinn and Moonsund islands later the Baltic Fleet had no reasons to keep this base. Because it did nothing.
2)Better to relocate the personnel to Leningrad Front.
3)During the winter Finns could to try assault(storm) the base from the sea sides because of a frozen ice. And keeps defense against it was more difficult.

It's only me getting "502 Bad Gateway" error today here?

< Message edited by Dreamslayer -- 10/13/2019 9:29:17 PM >

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Post #: 94

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/14/2019 12:38:20 PM

Denniss

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We can't do much for Hanko due to AI limitations - too strong then the Axis AI typically fails to capture it within 1-3 turns and loosing interest afterwards (not even guarding Hanko area). Some turns later the soviet AI is going rampage in finnish rear area leading to early Finn surrender

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Post #: 95

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/14/2019 1:07:34 PM

morvael

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What if Hanko base would be a frozen stack of 3 with disband date guarded by frozen stacks of 3, so that no action would be possible and it would quietly disappear at later date?

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Post #: 96

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/14/2019 1:33:39 PM

chaos45

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have a disband date of historical would work I think as long as troops return to the pool...or add them to Leningrad front when they transferred as reinforcements.

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Post #: 97

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/14/2019 5:57:06 PM

thedoctorking

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I'm in favor of this. I wouldn't evacuate the SU until Talinn falls and then all of a sudden there's no route back. In fact the base wasn't evacuated until well after the Germans captured Talinn. And most Soviet players aren't going to fight in Estonia anyway.

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Post #: 98

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/14/2019 7:31:44 PM

Dreamslayer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
And most Soviet players aren't going to fight in Estonia anyway.

It's because the situation there should be modelled better. For example, you can compare 3rd Rifle Brigade status in the game and in my post ( https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4387672&mpage=6# , post #176).

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Post #: 99

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/15/2019 12:59:19 PM

Denniss

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Even if the frozen units would disappear via disband the hex would be left empty and Axis AI does not guard nor capture it. Soviet AI then usually moves units there rampaging into Finland.

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Post #: 100

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/15/2019 4:13:36 PM

chaos45

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is there a way to just code the hex swap at the historical date in the scenarios?

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Post #: 101

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/15/2019 5:29:53 PM

xhoel

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While I agree that Hanko should be modeled better, if that is impossible to achieve, we should just leave it as it is, rather than start making tweaks that mess up with the AI. It is a really trivial part of the whole operation.

@morvael: Any chance you have been working on the change in the SU system lately?

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Post #: 102

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/15/2019 6:33:48 PM

morvael

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If you mean construction unit obeying limits then no, I'm still in hotfix mode for 1.12 and don't want to mess with adding new functionality.

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Post #: 103

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/15/2019 10:37:42 PM

xhoel

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I was referring to Engineer units acting like normal SUs. Don't really care about the construction units although it would be good if they followed normal SU protocol too. Alright fair enough, thanks for the answer!

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Post #: 104

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/16/2019 4:51:07 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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Haven't read everything in the thread so it may have been addressed already but I recall there was the rule change that you can't evacuate factories West anymore. I wonder why? Unless you do planning in advance (not picking the Easternmost cities for evacuation so you can make a few extra industry evacs) it removes a possibility to influence production. And yes, I think that is a feature and not a bug, and should be a possibility for the Soviet player to do.

Are there any h vs. h games which could be AARed to access the effects of the patch already?

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 10/16/2019 4:53:59 PM >

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Post #: 105

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/16/2019 5:16:33 PM

Telemecus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Haven't read everything in the thread so it may have been addressed already but I recall there was the rule change that you can't evacuate factories West anymore. I wonder why? Unless you do planning in advance (not picking the Easternmost cities for evacuation so you can make a few extra industry evacs) it removes a possibility to influence production. And yes, I think that is a feature and not a bug, and should be a possibility for the Soviet player to do.

I can see the consequence of the change will just be that players can evacuate factories one point at a time as little east as they can and to do that again and again. It will not get rid of all production, but at a guess 95% of it. So all it really does is give a benefit to those who will micromanage factory evacuation locations.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 10/16/2019 5:17:04 PM >

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Post #: 106

RE: 1.12.0 Problems/Bugs - 10/16/2019 6:13:49 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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Exactly. You can get most of the current industry management results, only with much more work.

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Post #: 107