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RE: Advancements - 6/10/2020 10:12:22 PM   
Dalwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Might be cool to have at least these conversions:

Infantry:
Assault <--> Anti Tank

When going on offense or defense...


Armor / Mechanized:
Breakthrough <--> Heavy Armor

When going from Pz II to Panther...


Strategic Bombers:
Detection & Electronics <--> Strategic Bombing

When Battle of Atlantic is done and you can concentrate on factories...



historically it was also common to see an experienced infantry unit get converted to motorized or panzer grenadier, or to see Mot or PzG converted to panzer. It was less common to see new panzer formations built from scratch with green troops.

Converting from assault infantry to AT should be as simple as swapping out a few field howitzers for a battalion or two of AT guns (or tank destroyers). Very little retraining should even be involved. The cost should be way less than half the cost of the unit and the time involved much less than that to build a new unit from scratch.

The current system is pretty far off the mark when compared to the things done historically.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 31
RE: Advancements - 6/11/2020 4:14:28 AM   
AlvaroSousa


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Status: offline 		I'll take it into consideration.

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(in reply to Dalwin)
Post #: 32
RE: Advancements - 6/11/2020 6:11:40 AM   
Harrybanana

 

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Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Might be cool to have at least these conversions:

Infantry:
Assault <--> Anti Tank

When going on offense or defense...


Armor / Mechanized:
Breakthrough <--> Heavy Armor

When going from Pz II to Panther...


Strategic Bombers:
Detection & Electronics <--> Strategic Bombing

When Battle of Atlantic is done and you can concentrate on factories...



I would agree with the first two, but not so sure about the last. The aircraft used for anti-sub (ie detection and electronics) were often different than those used for strategic bombing. As far as the US was concerned they were, from I think 43 on, controlled by the Navy.

My own wish list:

1. Give FBs much greater TAC strength,
2. Add another OP point to Breakthrough in 42 (so that they will have 11 OPs). This might almost make it worth it to research rather than Heavy armour.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 33
RE: Advancements - 6/11/2020 2:18:46 PM   
baloo7777


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quote:

My own wish list:

1. Give FBs much greater TAC strength,
2. Add another OP point to Breakthrough in 42 (so that they will have 11 OPs). This might almost make it worth it to research rather than Heavy armour.

I would also like to see the Heavy Armor OP's reduced to 7 or 8. The German and British heavy's were notoriously slow and susceptible to bogging and the German's to increased breakdown. Russian heavy armor was also subject to increased breakdown and American really only came at the tail end of the war. French/Italian have no effect on the war for obvious reasons.

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(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 34
RE: Advancements - 7/6/2020 4:45:53 AM   
ncc1701e


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From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Increasing range and tac value a bit would certainly make them more interesting.


New version, I don't want to create a Death Star either.




For all, here is the new Fighter Bomber tech in 1.00.08U3 patch.




Attachment (1)

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Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
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(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 35
RE: Advancements - 7/6/2020 2:10:57 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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Status: offline 		What is the difference for air units between "Anti-Air" and "Air Combat" parameters?

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 36
RE: Advancements - 7/6/2020 3:12:50 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Anti-air are AA guns when bombed
Air combat is fighting another aircraft in the air like in interception or escorting.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 37
RE: Advancements - 7/11/2020 9:21:52 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		I am experimenting something with the Germans versus AI.

Starting 1939, I am searching Interceptors to reach 1941 level.
Then, I will switch full speed to Fighter Bombers to reach 1942 level.

And I will convert some of my Interceptors to Fighter Bombers. I did this already for the single interceptor own by the Italian.

Will see how it goes...


< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 7/11/2020 9:23:25 AM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 38
RE: Advancements - 7/11/2020 2:45:41 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Anti-air are AA guns when bombed
Air combat is fighting another aircraft in the air like in interception or escorting.


I can see how the AA value would apply to targets that are on the ground/ocean like combat units and ships.

What confused me is that planes are given Anti-Air factors. While this would make sense for bombers like Strategic Bombers who see there Combat Air go up from 6 to 8 as skill levels rise and there Anti-Air goes up from 2 to 4, what does it mean for an Air Superiority Interceptor when its Air Combat rises from 8 to 12 and its Anti-Air rises from 2 to 4?

What types of combat with Interceptors would use the Air Combat versus Anti-Air factors? Or does it use both?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 39
RE: Advancements - 7/11/2020 4:03:35 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		So say I bomb your enemy land unit and you intercept. That interceptor will use A2A. The target land unit will use its AA

But if I bomb the interceptors airfield it will fight A2A then use its AA before you bomb.

That is how it works. The Air counter is basically a setup airfield with defenses. The defenses only work if that air fiend is targeted

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 40
RE: Advancements - 7/13/2020 1:44:20 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

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quote:

So say I bomb your enemy land unit and you intercept. That interceptor will use A2A. The target land unit will use its AA

But if I bomb the interceptors airfield it will fight A2A then use its AA before you bomb.

That is how it works. The Air counter is basically a setup airfield with defenses. The defenses only work if that air fiend is targeted


That would seem to make Air Superiority Interceptors rather weak at intercepting depending on how the game actually calculates the combat. For example, a 1942 level Interceptor has an AC rating of 9 but a AA rating of only 3. If a similar enemy interceptor does an interception would that mean the attacker would use a factor of 9 against the defending interceptor's 3?

And, if I am following your airfield explanation correctly, if the attacker's Interceptors instead targeted the actual hex the enemy interceptor was placed in (airfield marker), it would have to fight twice. Once against the unit's AA and again against its AC?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 41
RE: Advancements - 7/13/2020 2:57:33 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Try and visualize it. You fly a raid to bomb an enemy airfield.

Their radar picks you up and sends up its fighters from that airfield.

It intercepts you and you fight air to air.

Now those bombers arrive at target damaged

The AA now fires from that air field

You bomb the airfield.

#1 bombers are weaker than air sups so they will get killed int he sky
#2 the defenders gets to shoot all his stuff before the attacker bombs.
#3 A2A ratings for bombers are not their bombing factors.
#4 Defending planes have it slightly better over their own territory. They spend 50% of the oil required. I also believe they convert damage to effectiveness slightly better for being over their own territory. I dont remember off the top of my head.


_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 42
RE: Advancements - 7/13/2020 7:48:54 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Try and visualize it. You fly a raid to bomb an enemy airfield.

Their radar picks you up and sends up its fighters from that airfield.

It intercepts you and you fight air to air.

Now those bombers arrive at target damaged

The AA now fires from that air field

You bomb the airfield.

#1 bombers are weaker than air sups so they will get killed int he sky
#2 the defenders gets to shoot all his stuff before the attacker bombs.
#3 A2A ratings for bombers are not their bombing factors.
#4 Defending planes have it slightly better over their own territory. They spend 50% of the oil required. I also believe they convert damage to effectiveness slightly better for being over their own territory. I dont remember off the top of my head.



So how did Germany almost destroy British airfields before they switched targets in the Battle of Britain? How were the Soviet planes destroyed on the ground in huge numbers (~4000 the first week) at the start of Barbarossa? How about the attack at Pearl destroying aircraft on the ground or the destruction of Germany's ability to send up aircraft over Normandy? It seems like you have made attacking an airfield a fool's errand by making the defender far too strong.

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(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 43
RE: Advancements - 7/14/2020 1:54:14 PM   
kennonlightfoot

 

Posts: 1530
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline 		What I am having a problem sorting out is the AA factor assigned to Air Superiority and Ground Attack fighters.

When is the AA of these units used?
When they are attacked by air against their hex location (which is assumed to be an airfield)?

If I am following your explanation and there are no other improvements to the hex the air unit is in (no AA guns), then if a 1942 Interceptor attacked a 1942 Close Support air unit the battle would be:

Air Combat of 10 vs 5
Followed by AA round of ground's 3 AA factor against ? (the AC of 10? Something else?)

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 44
RE: Advancements - 7/14/2020 5:03:36 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		air sup vs a bomber it is just the AA with no counter intercept.

Planes are not the issue. Planes are a dime a dozen. Pilots are the issue and the use of the airfield.

Germany has tens of thousands of a/c lying around in 1945. Their airforce was shattered.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to kennonlightfoot)
Post #: 45
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