RE: Going to see Midway opening night ?

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/15/2019 11:15:09 PM

IdahoNYer

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Also saw it this afternoon!

I'd give it a B+ mainly due to the CGI ships in the movie, and the story being told from the Enterprise PoV, centering on Dick Best. As has been said, the CGI battle scenes were way over the top, but I expected that going in.

I didn't expect the detail in the ships - different classes could be identified from both sides. That was nice. OK, they were steaming all too close together and I did glimpse both Yamatos when the SBDs were attacking the Kido Butai.

The movie covered a lot of ground which kinda watered down the characters and the story - Coral Sea and Yorktown was glossed over and of course, where were the US fighters??

Still, for me, better than the original Midway by far. I'd rate it higher than Fury and Dunkirk and about the same as the recent Okinawa movie who's title escapes me.

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Post #: 121

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/16/2019 1:10:46 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
and about the same as the recent Okinawa movie who's title escapes me.

Man, I sure hope you're not talking about Windtalkers, dude.

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Post #: 122

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/16/2019 5:23:27 AM

IdahoNYer

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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Man, I sure hope you're not talking about Windtalkers, dude.

God no....it was Hacksaw Ridge!

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Post #: 123

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/16/2019 7:23:02 PM

jagsdomain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

Also saw it this afternoon!

I'd give it a B+ mainly due to the CGI ships in the movie, and the story being told from the Enterprise PoV, centering on Dick Best. As has been said, the CGI battle scenes were way over the top, but I expected that going in.

I didn't expect the detail in the ships - different classes could be identified from both sides. That was nice. OK, they were steaming all too close together and I did glimpse both Yamatos when the SBDs were attacking the Kido Butai.

The movie covered a lot of ground which kinda watered down the characters and the story - Coral Sea and Yorktown was glossed over and of course, where were the US fighters??

Still, for me, better than the original Midway by far. I'd rate it higher than Fury and Dunkirk and about the same as the recent Okinawa movie who's title escapes me.

I really liked Fury till the last seen.
I was also wondering about the fighters. I am guessing. It was story and cost. After all the movie was more A movie about Sick Best.
The movie covered the IJN war gaming seen.
I would agree with the B+

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Post #: 124

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/16/2019 7:26:47 PM

jagsdomain

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I was on Windtalkers when they started filming in LA.
Best set I was ever on! Got to have a real M1, rode on a Sherman and had some P-51 fly overs.
The food was amazing, Christian Slater amazing but the other guy not so much.
Got to talk with the actual windtalker on set he was great.

The movie might have been the worst war movie. No never mind PH was the worst movie ever made!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
and about the same as the recent Okinawa movie who's title escapes me.

Man, I sure hope you're not talking about Windtalkers, dude.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 125

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 3:05:44 AM

AcePylut

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Just got back from seeing the movie a second time, this one with my 14 year old stepdaughter.

On second viewing, I will bump up my score to a solid B. The reason is, I realize that, as a WW2 grog, I will discount a war movie for the dumbest of things. "Omg, did you see that bow mounted machine gun on the Tiger tank? They CLEARLY used the Mg42/B/A/C Variant 5 B Alpha, when that wasn't used until September 4th 1944, and not August 3rd, 1944. OMG. What terrible, lazy, filmmaking. Movie gets an F- for such a bastardization of history."

The combat scenes remain a little fanciful, but they got the job done. The movie got the job done. I can handle a little bit of silly CGI and silly "unrealistic AA" and the Yamato being between the carriers, because they got so much right.

So here's my 14 year old's review on the movie... any parent of a teenage girl (or boy) can relate:
She got a text from a friend asking if she wanted a sleep over, but her phone was off. When the movie was done (9:30 PM) she saw the text and asked if she could spend the night at her friends house. I said, "no sweetie, 9:30 is too late to start a sleepover". She got mad at me and barely talked to me on the way home. Also, it's "that time of the month". Can't effing win sometimes.

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Post #: 126

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 7:54:41 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Just got back from seeing the movie a second time, this one with my 14 year old stepdaughter.

On second viewing, I will bump up my score to a solid B. The reason is, I realize that, as a WW2 grog, I will discount a war movie for the dumbest of things. "Omg, did you see that bow mounted machine gun on the Tiger tank? They CLEARLY used the Mg42/B/A/C Variant 5 B Alpha, when that wasn't used until September 4th 1944, and not August 3rd, 1944. OMG. What terrible, lazy, filmmaking. Movie gets an F- for such a bastardization of history."

The combat scenes remain a little fanciful, but they got the job done. The movie got the job done. I can handle a little bit of silly CGI and silly "unrealistic AA" and the Yamato being between the carriers, because they got so much right.

So here's my 14 year old's review on the movie... any parent of a teenage girl (or boy) can relate:
She got a text from a friend asking if she wanted a sleep over, but her phone was off. When the movie was done (9:30 PM) she saw the text and asked if she could spend the night at her friends house. I said, "no sweetie, 9:30 is too late to start a sleepover". She got mad at me and barely talked to me on the way home. Also, it's "that time of the month". Can't effing win sometimes.

warspite1

May be a little TMI there Acepylut?

But as a father, I feel your pain...

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Post #: 127

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 1:06:58 PM

fcooke

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Fury - lets charge a Tiger in the open with a few Shermans.....

Let Tiger come to you in the treeline.

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Post #: 128

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 2:57:36 PM

jagsdomain

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I have to see it again but I feel that pain. I ask my 5 year old about school and its Hummm. She will tell me about story that she is making up in her head that's crazy but still better than TLJ or PH!

Glad you liked it better the second time.
My favorit parts of the movie was the war gaming sceen, when the IJN navy and army were "talking" and when Lawton was talking with his wife and she gets him a sandwich.
That scene really brings home how many people state side gave all for victory.

Have to add one more. When the SBD goes off the end of the E and gets destroyed under the ship. Its amazing hiw many people, mostly aircrew got killed statside or in traning accident.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Just got back from seeing the movie a second time, this one with my 14 year old stepdaughter.

On second viewing, I will bump up my score to a solid B. The reason is, I realize that, as a WW2 grog, I will discount a war movie for the dumbest of things. "Omg, did you see that bow mounted machine gun on the Tiger tank? They CLEARLY used the Mg42/B/A/C Variant 5 B Alpha, when that wasn't used until September 4th 1944, and not August 3rd, 1944. OMG. What terrible, lazy, filmmaking. Movie gets an F- for such a bastardization of history."

The combat scenes remain a little fanciful, but they got the job done. The movie got the job done. I can handle a little bit of silly CGI and silly "unrealistic AA" and the Yamato being between the carriers, because they got so much right.

So here's my 14 year old's review on the movie... any parent of a teenage girl (or boy) can relate:
She got a text from a friend asking if she wanted a sleep over, but her phone was off. When the movie was done (9:30 PM) she saw the text and asked if she could spend the night at her friends house. I said, "no sweetie, 9:30 is too late to start a sleepover". She got mad at me and barely talked to me on the way home. Also, it's "that time of the month". Can't effing win sometimes.

(in reply to AcePylut)

Post #: 129

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 3:57:53 PM

jagsdomain

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LOLOLOL.... I bet he has a ticket in there for Battleship to!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

I have seen some trailers and groaned about the Hollywood-typical exaggerated CGI combat scenes, like Zeros strafing at lower-than-treetops-level three feet above the ground or dive-bombers pulling out of their dives so low the wingtips dip into the ocean.

Ok, thanks to CGI at least no angled-deck carriers standing-in for historic ships.

Seems to have a love story or at least family story as well. In short, looks like TMTSNBN Part II.

I'll watch it anyway of course, but with much lower expectations than I had for the original TMTSNBN.

Btw, last week I did some triage of the stuff accumulated in the attic and went through my assorted souvenirs and memorabilia, including those of my "study abroad experience" at SUNY Buffalo - and look what I found:

On the release day

No!!!! That ticket stub from TMTSNBN has cursed the entire Forum. We're doomed...

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Post #: 130

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 4:07:46 PM

fcooke

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Did an SBD get run over by its CV in real life? at Midway? I now have to fetch Shattered Sword and see if that is in there.....

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Post #: 131

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 4:54:58 PM

AcePylut

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Yeah, lol, nice to see Ops Losses represented in the movie :)

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 5:06:58 PM

spence

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quote:

now have to fetch Shattered Sword and see if that is in there.....

Might be a problem since Shattered Sword is mostly drawn from Japanese records. Don't remember it being in any of the US sources but Lord or Prange or Simonds might have mentioned it.

< Message edited by spence -- 11/17/2019 5:08:54 PM >

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/17/2019 5:12:12 PM

jagsdomain

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The jousting Tiger scene. I understand why they did from a movie perspective. They had 3 working Shermans and a working Tiger. They wanted to show them off.
Just wished they did not go the lazy way and do a different type of scene. Maybe someone can make a fan edit with the Sherman's staking the Tiger?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Fury - lets charge a Tiger in the open with a few Shermans..... Let Tiger come to you in the treeline.

< Message edited by jagsdomain -- 11/17/2019 5:37:24 PM >

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Post #: 134

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/18/2019 12:43:44 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Did an SBD get run over by its CV in real life? at Midway? I now have to fetch Shattered Sword and see if that is in there.....

In the movie that episode happened before the Midway battle - during the attack on "the Marshalls" or at the Coral Sea. That led to the protagonist talking to his wife about how he failed the pilot by persuading him to fly when he wanted to quit.

The stuff about a carrier "not moving fast enough" to launch aircraft was just stupid - no skipper would allow launch without going to full speed and getting good anemometer readings on windspeed over the bow. And no pilot would radio the bridge of the carrier and order it to make a turn. The best he could do is report the position of the downed plane relative to the ship and the CV captain would order the turn . And then there is the big chunk of unused deck space behind the SBDs when they started their takeoff rolls... All the director had to do was show the deck packed to the start of a very short takeoff roll and make a reference to the heavy load the SBDs were carrying to show that the takeoff was "iffy".

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Post #: 135

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/18/2019 12:47:39 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain

The jousting Tiger scene. I understand why they did from a movie perspective. They had 3 working Shermans and a working Tiger. They wanted to show them off.
Just wished they did not go the lazy way and do a different type of scene. Maybe someone can make a fan edit with the Sherman's staking the Tiger?

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Fury - lets charge a Tiger in the open with a few Shermans..... Let Tiger come to you in the treeline.

+1 At very least, the attacking Shermans would have been spread out widely before starting the attack so the Tiger could not target one of them without exposing the turret side or rear to attack from the other Shermans. And once the first shot from the Tiger missed, it is suicide to continue driving directly at it - the targeted Sherman should be maneuvering radically to make the Tiger try a deflection shot (target moving from side to side).

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/18/2019 12:31:25 PM

fcooke

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I really need to get Steel Panthers or Close Combat working again.....

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/19/2019 2:08:10 AM

AcePylut

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This is the best, most accurate review, of the movie I've seen...

https://youtu.be/IM7C3_UVdBA

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/19/2019 3:37:40 AM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

This is the best, most accurate review, of the movie I've seen...

https://youtu.be/IM7C3_UVdBA

For me the most "accurate" review is by the folks that were there, or the folks who knew well the folks that were there.

http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2019/20191001.aspx

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Post #: 139

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/19/2019 4:45:33 AM

spence

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quote:

For me the most "accurate" review is by the folks that were there, or the folks who knew well the folks that were there.

Norman "Dusty" Kleiss was the last of the dive bomber pilots alive. IIRC he died in 2016 at age 100. He got the name "Dusty" cause he landed and pulled off the runway at Ewa while training and his propellor stirred up such a gigantic dust cloud that some Marine planes that wanted to land couldn't see the runway. The tower at the field was not happy and "spoke" to him on the radio so that his squadron mates heard it. He also scored two bomb hits on 4 Jun 42: HIJMS Kaga in the morning and HIJMS Hiryu in the afternoon. And he apparently also hit the HIJMS MIkuma on 6 June. He was thus the only pilot who scored 3 bomb hits during the Battle of Midway (along with everybody else he missed the HIJMS Tanikaze on June 5th).

< Message edited by spence -- 11/19/2019 3:39:46 PM >

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/19/2019 4:58:19 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

This is the best, most accurate review, of the movie I've seen...

https://youtu.be/IM7C3_UVdBA

For me the most "accurate" review is by the folks that were there, or the folks who knew well the folks that were there.

http://www.midway42.org/Backissues/2019/20191001.aspx

Interesting that near the bottom of the linked page one of the respondents, Chuck Wholrab, mentions that he plays War In the Pacific by Matrix. Not clear whether he means the original or the AE version of the game, but a nice link between our forum and the Midway Round Table.

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/19/2019 2:25:21 PM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I really need to get Steel Panthers or Close Combat working again.....

SPWAW works with the "enhanced" version on Windows 7 I have it installed....I played A LOT of this game. Tigers need to stand off and pick targets from a far. There were even some orders from "Inspekteur der Panzertruppen" (which was Guderian at this time), basically saying to the crews do not rely on the Tigers armor, instead it should be treated like any other AFV...

Played also lots of PBMs - the turns are ofc a lot faster - I was always happy when my opponent played Germany and relied on Tigers overall or Panthers front armor too much and exposed these tanks. There are enough weapons in the Allied/Soviet arsenals to take these out with side shots (there is only a window in 43 when you can risk such action imho). I rarely bouhgt Tigers when playing Ger I rather would buy 2 STUG w/ 75mm/L48 for example for the price. However there was quirk in the game which could not modell STUG type vehicles - they could turn like a turret...

See this video "How to fight Tigers - Tactics & Weaknesses"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyv7VTXvAfw

I found this quite good moddeled in Steel Panthers...

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 11/19/2019 2:42:09 PM >

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/25/2019 5:54:59 PM

Chickenboy

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Bump for Anachro's digestion.

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/26/2019 2:59:06 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Bump for Anachro's digestion.

Or indigestion, as the case may be!

Attachment (1)

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/26/2019 3:28:01 PM

Canoerebel

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We are divided in twain. There are the Purists and the Pragmatists. The Purists insist on realism. The Pragmatists are glad to get whatever they can, within reason. The Purists say, "Don't do it if you can't do it right." The Pragmatists say "Do something halfway decent so that our cups can be half full, at the least." The Purists can't stomach Zeros flying at street level blowing up battleships. The Pragmatists are glad for a movie depicting Essex class carriers properly even if the aeronautics are wonky. The Purists pine for Gettysburg and Schindler's List and Letters from Iwo Jima. The pragmatists are glad to have period films rather than endless Marvel and Star Wars remakes - anything (within reason) will do and occasionally we'll get a Gettysburg, Schindler's List or Letters from Iwo Jima.

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Post #: 145

RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/26/2019 5:37:33 PM

AcePylut

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

We are divided in twain. There are the Purists and the Pragmatists. The Purists insist on realism. The Pragmatists are glad to get whatever they can, within reason. The Purists say, "Don't do it if you can't do it right." The Pragmatists say "Do something halfway decent so that our cups can be half full, at the least." The Purists can't stomach Zeros flying at street level blowing up battleships. The Pragmatists are glad for a movie depicting Essex class carriers properly even if the aeronautics are wonky. The Purists pine for Gettysburg and Schindler's List and Letters from Iwo Jima. The pragmatists are glad to have period films rather than endless Marvel and Star Wars remakes - anything (within reason) will do and occasionally we'll get a Gettysburg, Schindler's List or Letters from Iwo Jima.

My whole thing is this.... the actual battle, and combat scenes I've seen from gun-camera films... and realistic flight / tactics / aa /etc. is and of itself - has enough of all the "good movie" elements, that you DONT HAVE to 'create something that isn't right".

How "dramatic" would it be for this scene to be shown in the movie...

Leslie gets down and low in his Devastator, ready for his torp run, we are looking at the plane from a 3rd person view, in front of and slightly above the plane. For this scene, the camera never leaves or changes view. This is one continuous shot that takes about 1 minute or two of screen time. His rear gunner shouts out "ZERO".... just as a zero comes into view, perhaps a mile behind Leslie (or so), we hold the camera on Leslie as the zero slowly moves into range... music builds the tension... the actors show every increasing fear and dread as the Zero closes.. the audience is left to wonder "will they live will they die"... Leslie shouts "shoot that mofo down"... the rear seat gunner opens fire at the Zero - we get "realistic bullets" arcing out at the Zero... the Zero dodges and continues in. Rear seat gunner re-adjusts aim.. more tension/fear/dread... the gunner fires again.... misses... the Zero gets into range and opens up. realistic bullets reach out to the TBD... a few "plinks" as the Zero's 7.7's hit the wings... Leslie very skillfully controls the plane... shouts out "torpedo run" (or whatever) and his fear leaves him, he focuses in with rage on his "torpedo sight"... the Zero moves back into gun range (with REALISTIC flight dynamics)... Leslie is focused on his torp run. The rear seat gunner and the Zero open up at the same time. We see the rear seat gunner bullets go flying off in a random direction as the camera pans around the plane every so slightly to show that the Zero killed the rear gunner. Leslie continues on... the zero opens up with it's cannons... the flaps are hit, the ailerons are hit... Leslie pulls back from the torp sight in "fear" of his death. He knows he's a dead man, he's afraid, sad, whatever. The zero fires another burst, smoke pours out of the engine (not some magical explosion)...the TBD wheels over and crashes into the ocean as the camera continues pulling away from the splash at the same speed the TBD was going.... We see a wider view of the squadron's run. T he planes are spaced out properly (not all bunched together wingtip to wingtip) as we see other TBD's, some on fire, some smoking, one or two crashing into the ocean... Sad music plays...

But instead, we get "star wars 1942" and there's no need for it. But I still liked the movie, because I had no expectations for it. I came to this realization when I compared "300" to "Troy" from about 15 years ago. I hated Troy because it wasn't "homer" and I expected pure history. I loved "300" because I expected cartoon fun based on King Leonidas and didn't expect to see pure history. So there's that.

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 11/26/2019 5:38:36 PM >

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RE: Going to see Midway opening night ? - 11/26/2019 8:19:54 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Pragmatists are glad for a movie depicting Essex class carriers properly even if the aeronautics are wonky.

What movie would that have been in? The carriers in the movie Midway were decidedly non-Essex class CVs.

Should you make a third category then? Purist pragmatists?