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RE: v4 bug stomp so far

 
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RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/4/2019 4:45:21 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I personally think there is a severe matter in terms of design that may require reviewing in Warplan.
Currently defending by itself is easy if it was not for massed airforce. Mass airforce will just enable obliteration of 1-2 hexes a turn per front in what otherwise is a trench warfare game.
I believe that is what was in some late game AAR - Flavius vs Jim - and also what I am experiencing myself.

In a game for instance Soviets have pratically 2-3 tanks / mechs. Their army is pure infantry, cas and fighter planes. (No medium bombers - just IL-2s!).
So '43 onward the game turns in a repeated cycle of bomb-take1hex (or eventually 2 hexes) with your whole airforce carpeting the zone first. (Admittedly it's the same that Germany, on smaller scale, does to France).

I hope that's not how the game is intended because it turns boring pretty quick, and resolves the game pratically in a 'air war' game.

Other evaluations I'd forward are:
Manpower tied to map locations instead than external.
More VP cities. Presently there are far too many gaps between a VP and the other which may mean little to nothing.
Morale Cities are often redundant, especially for certain countries. (The green dot ones).

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 31
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/4/2019 9:04:26 PM   
TrogusP96

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 6/15/2015
Status: offline 		Mr. _Slith,

it does have that feel so far. Do we know the combat results tables? Reference is made to retreat probabilities? I have no idea what they are. If the table is to be discovered every game like air attack results that's fine then it should start with blanks and fil in gradually as if a staff was telling us the results. The combat reports are helpful. I also now see when air attacks are made the words light or very light on the target. Don't know what that means. Trying for that balance between stickiness from zones of control or no zones versus fluidity.

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 32
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/4/2019 9:14:15 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
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Status: offline 		Admittedly it is Cohen ... then for some reason when the merging with Slitherine happened, my user name got modified against my will, and when I have made a support ticket, I pratically got told that I've to stick with it as they cannot change the username.

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Post #: 33
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/4/2019 9:36:29 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		The strategy of pounding one location with all your air is what you have been conditioned to do from other games. There are other ways to attack the enemy. I mostly don't air strike land units in WarPlan.

< Message edited by Alvaro Sousa -- 12/5/2019 2:13:15 AM >

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Post #: 34
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/4/2019 9:39:57 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Arh, a great mystery is solved. I have wondered what this _slith referred too, some alien race perhaps? But no, just a matrix cockup. You are not the only _slith I have seen around.

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Post #: 35
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/5/2019 12:55:51 AM   
mroyer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Arh, a great mystery is solved. I have wondered what this _slith referred too, some alien race perhaps? But no, just a matrix cockup. You are not the only _slith I have seen around.


The _slith are in the matrix...

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 36
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/5/2019 7:37:35 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		It only turns to WW1 if you don’t use the correct tactics. You need to learn how slice, encircle and annihilate. I posted how to take France in 4 turns.

< Message edited by Zovs -- 12/5/2019 7:38:25 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 1:22:56 AM   
goodwoodrw


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Status: offline 		Just bought the game I will wait until the patch is out before I start to play it, is far away


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Post #: 38
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 2:55:32 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
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Post #: 39
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 8:06:51 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Status: offline 		Doh...
Hoped for it to hit today

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 40
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 8:30:19 AM   
goodwoodrw


Posts: 2661
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Status: offline 		Thanks no rush still reading the manual

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Post #: 41
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 11:00:28 AM   
Hoyt Burrass


Posts: 330
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From: Montgomery, Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

There are other ways to attack the enemy. I mostly don't air strike land units in WarPlan.



SO, what should we be doing to attack the enemy??

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Post #: 42
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 11:49:07 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I do not know - unless there is a big difference in basic strength of ground units (That is pratically true only vs some minors and in Barbarossa '41), to attack with minimal ground support is such a bloodshed that at least cannot be easily afforded.

And against a prepared / still capable opponent to do breakthroughs for grand encirclements tend to spell the doom of whoever tries that. Like, try to do that as German or Soviet in '43 when the counterpart has still fresh reserves, see what happens. (Answer: your spearheads that are spent and stretched gets hammered by the fresh reserves, and eventually even wiped out)

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Post #: 43
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 1:21:04 PM   
AlvaroSousa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoyt Burrass


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

There are other ways to attack the enemy. I mostly don't air strike land units in WarPlan.



SO, what should we be doing to attack the enemy??


Setting units to support mode and just letting them add their factors in an attack.

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Designer Strategic Command
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(in reply to Hoyt Burrass)
Post #: 44
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 2:47:27 PM   
Essro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodwoodrw

Just bought the game I will wait until the patch is out before I start to play it, is far away



If I could offer some advice, once you read the rules regarding amphibious landings I highly recommend just loading up the '44 scenario as Allies and have at it. You don't need the newest patch to do this.

It's a great scenario for practicing how to land (para too). Everything is ready to go as early on the first turn so you don't need to build landing craft (but pay attention to how they are used and spent).

Plus you get some early lessons on port supply.

(in reply to goodwoodrw)
Post #: 45
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 3:00:52 PM   
Essro

 

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Joined: 11/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoyt Burrass


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

There are other ways to attack the enemy. I mostly don't air strike land units in WarPlan.



SO, what should we be doing to attack the enemy??


Setting units to support mode and just letting them add their factors in an attack.


That's how I do it for the most part.

Be mindful that air units that are marked support but are LOW effectiveness will not assist. Pay attention to this and be sure to rest your air units.

@Alvaro, when you say "add their factors," what's the math of that?

from the manual:
"Land Combat Rounds –Each round of land combat fires a certain
attribute of the units involved in the battle. In each round damage
is applied to each side by that type of attribute.
Round 1 – Artillery
Round 2 – Defender Guns
Round 3 – Tanks (halved in rugged terrain)
Round 4 – Attacker Guns (halved attacking)
Round 5 – Firearms


where/how do air units participate? Round 1?


(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 46
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 3:32:40 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Artillery because that is what they are effectively.

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(in reply to Essro)
Post #: 47
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 7:41:12 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		Another piece of gold. Alvaro throws us a nugget now and then.

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Post #: 48
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 8:26:52 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

I personally think there is a severe matter in terms of design that may require reviewing in Warplan.
Currently defending by itself is easy if it was not for massed airforce. Mass airforce will just enable obliteration of 1-2 hexes a turn per front in what otherwise is a trench warfare game.
I believe that is what was in some late game AAR - Flavius vs Jim - and also what I am experiencing myself.

In a game for instance Soviets have pratically 2-3 tanks / mechs. Their army is pure infantry, cas and fighter planes. (No medium bombers - just IL-2s!).
So '43 onward the game turns in a repeated cycle of bomb-take1hex (or eventually 2 hexes) with your whole airforce carpeting the zone first. (Admittedly it's the same that Germany, on smaller scale, does to France).

I hope that's not how the game is intended because it turns boring pretty quick, and resolves the game pratically in a 'air war' game.

Other evaluations I'd forward are:
Manpower tied to map locations instead than external.
More VP cities. Presently there are far too many gaps between a VP and the other which may mean little to nothing.
Morale Cities are often redundant, especially for certain countries. (The green dot ones).


Severe? I don't know about that.

I disagree with your assessment of air.

However, I do agree that some matches can turn into a WW1 grind. I have had both static and fluid games.

I think it's something to keep an eye on.

Or, better yet, perhaps folks can share methods on how to get units to retreat more often.







(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 49
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 9:08:25 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Could also be a skill difference.

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Creator Kraken Studios
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Post #: 50
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 9:20:45 PM   
Essro

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Could also be a skill difference.


And it very well could be.

For instance, I have gone from spending oil like a madman to routinely having enough to get the job done. I need to learn the same discipline in managing Soviet manpower. I have routinely run out by end of '43 as Allied player--same for my experience as the Germans but I am well aware that my play style (as Axis) creates this situation. For the USSR, I am finding the balance harder to find.

I think I might stop having armor units specialize in engineering or elite. There is a infiltration option that I have yet to use. This results in more retreats, yes?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 51
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/6/2019 9:24:36 PM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 638
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		Got a deployment bug. This one for Allies. I deployed UK naval units and then selected USSR which allowed Red Army units to be deployed in UK.

This may apply to Axis too, have not tested.

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SeaMonkey

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Post #: 52
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/7/2019 12:33:52 AM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		PM me the details.

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Post #: 53
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/8/2019 11:55:09 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
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From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline
quote:

Reduced 1939 UK starting escorts
Reduced change of escorts to hit submarines


This should help the U-Boats somewhat. Thanks Alvaro. Maybe U-Boat war might be worth pursuing now. Will be interesting to test.

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Post #: 54
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 1:12:18 PM   
Journier

 

Posts: 349
Joined: 3/28/2010
Status: offline 		we still on for release today of patch?

Matrix is making this a very delayed process ^_^

< Message edited by Journier -- 12/9/2019 1:15:08 PM >

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 55
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 3:56:51 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		Should be. It's on Matrix.

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Creator Kraken Studios
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Designer Strategic Command
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Post #: 56
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 8:28:48 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
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From: Queensland, Australia.
Status: offline 		It's certainly a long drawn out process.

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Post #: 57
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 9:23:03 PM   
Journier

 

Posts: 349
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Status: offline 		guess no patch today, sad day.

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Post #: 58
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 10:29:20 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
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Status: offline 		I did my part

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Post #: 59
RE: v4 bug stomp so far - 12/9/2019 11:50:09 PM   
Michael T


Posts: 4443
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Status: offline 		I think it's time they pulled out the proverbial finger...

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Post #: 60
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