Late War Allied Tanks

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Late War Allied Tanks - 12/8/2019 1:03:44 PM

ny59giants

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I've just reached July '45 as Allies playing BTS Lite which is based on DBB. I'm getting both the M26 Pershing and M4A2 Sherman tanks. I don't see any LCUs that have upgrade paths to these tanks when I hit the "D" key to find it. Any assist would be appreciated for this novice in late war play.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/8/2019 3:01:53 PM

geofflambert

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The Pershing is comparable to a Tiger. I wouldn't get it. Any kind of Sherman is better than anything the Japanese have. I know nothing of BTS though.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/8/2019 3:12:03 PM

John 3rd

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Not part of BTS. Comes from the DaBabes formatting of our Mods.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/8/2019 10:16:51 PM

Bearcat2

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Device 474 M4 Sherman tank upgrades to Device 476 M26 Pershing tank

Thought when there was enough M26 in the pool, M4 Shermans upgrade just like other devices.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/8/2019 10:30:33 PM

Bearcat2

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The M4A2 is a Soviet tank in the database, you will find them in Soviet units, none in other Allied units.

< Message edited by Bearcat2 -- 12/8/2019 10:32:02 PM >

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/9/2019 1:49:33 AM

geofflambert

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The Soviets got 4,000 Shermans from the US. They were glad to get them. I believe they were shipped with radios. Most T-34s did not have radios, they used flags instead. Look at the comparative losses at Kursk.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/9/2019 4:31:44 AM

Ian R

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There is one Soviet mechanised corps in 6th Gds Tank Army that uses the M4A2 (query that is a diesel model). The 9th Gds Mech corps, if memory serves. I can't remember if the device values reflect a 75mm/L38 or a 76mm/L54 being mounted, but it doesn't matter much.

There is a US infantry division TOE upgrade late war that adds a battalion of M26 to each division*.

You actually do not want to upgrade your existing M4 units to M26, or you won't have enough.

[* in stock, and Andy's ironmen. Not sure whether John has that.]

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/9/2019 9:49:36 AM

GetAssista

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
The Pershing is comparable to a Tiger. I wouldn't get it. Any kind of Sherman is better than anything the Japanese have. I know nothing of BTS though.

Tanks do not necessarily battle tanks. Heavy tanks in general are designed to push through fortified positions, and Pershing is certainly stronger vs artillery compared to Sherman

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/9/2019 12:11:00 PM

Canoerebel

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I've had three recent games go into 1945 as the Allied player (December, May, March). Never did an USA armored unit upgrade to Pershings.

Stuart Vs (VIs?) do upgrade to Chafees, so it's not a bug with the system. I don't think there's an upgrade path for Pershings.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/9/2019 2:20:07 PM

BBfanboy

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The Pershings might be in the database for the Downfall scenario, which would go well into 1946 since the first landings are November 1945.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/10/2019 4:08:29 AM

Ian R

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The Pershings might be in the database for the Downfall scenario, which would go well into 1946 since the first landings are November 1945.

The M26 Pershing is present in stock scenario 1 (and therefore everywhere else, unless the modder nixed it). It is in device data slot 1189, available 04/45, build rate 28 per month.

The M4 Sherman in device data slot 1180 does not have an equipment upgrade at all, the Pershings arrive via a TOE change...

The final USA 1945 infantry division TOE is in location slot 2513, and the upgrade becomes available in 07/45 ("delay" setting on the 1942 TOE in slot 2512). It includes 27 x M26 Pershings, and 27 x M4 Sherman CS tanks (which have an arrival rate of 5 per month starting 05/44 - there are never enough to go around).

In theory, each division gets an integral battalion of tanks, half M26, half M4CS. In practice, given the numbers required, not enough arrive to equip every US infantry on the map division. However, from about October 1945, the last tranche of US Infantry division reinforcements (including 1st Army units) enter on TOE 2513 with full compliments of tanks.

Also, I just noticed the US 86th Infantry Division (#5348), which arrives 450917, arrives with TOE ID of 2352 - USA cavalry (Special) division.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/10/2019 7:26:14 AM

CaptBeefheart

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Ian R beat me to it and with a lot more detail than I would have written. I have had U.S. IDs operate with 27 Pershings in '45 under the final TOE upgrade. These are typically Ironman scenarios.

Cheers,
CB

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/28/2019 3:48:56 AM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

The Pershings might be in the database for the Downfall scenario, which would go well into 1946 since the first landings are November 1945.

The M26 Pershing is present in stock scenario 1 (and therefore everywhere else, unless the modder nixed it). It is in device data slot 1189, available 04/45, build rate 28 per month.

The M4 Sherman in device data slot 1180 does not have an equipment upgrade at all, the Pershings arrive via a TOE change...

The final USA 1945 infantry division TOE is in location slot 2513, and the upgrade becomes available in 07/45 ("delay" setting on the 1942 TOE in slot 2512). It includes 27 x M26 Pershings, and 27 x M4 Sherman CS tanks (which have an arrival rate of 5 per month starting 05/44 - there are never enough to go around).

In theory, each division gets an integral battalion of tanks, half M26, half M4CS. In practice, given the numbers required, not enough arrive to equip every US infantry on the map division. However, from about October 1945, the last tranche of US Infantry division reinforcements (including 1st Army units) enter on TOE 2513 with full compliments of tanks.

Also, I just noticed the US 86th Infantry Division (#5348), which arrives 450917, arrives with TOE ID of 2352 - USA cavalry (Special) division.

You are correct. In stock WitP-AE, starting in October, 1945, the nine Infantry Divisions being redeployed from Europe to the Pacific arrive with a full complement of M26 Pershing and M4 Sherman Close Support (CS) tanks.

In June of 1945 a 'convoy unit' (6753) arrives and disbands to put a load of devices in the US pools, including 150 CS tanks and 100 Pershings. This is the surplus production slated for Europe that became available for the Pacific after the Third Reich surrendered. Combined with the monthly builds, the US ought to be able to outfit another half-dozen or more infantry divisions by early 1946, depending on losses.

US Armored divisions were equipped with a mix of light (M5 Stuart or M24 Chaffee) and Medium (M4 Sherman) tanks as 1945 rolled into 1946. They had no Pershings and only a handful (18) Close Support tanks in their TO&E. The Pershings and CSs were intended to be the assault guns and replace the anti-tank guns of the infantry.

FWIW, my favorite late-war US ground unit is the M4 'Zippo' flamethrower tank. There are only three battalions, IIRC, but each tank has triple the anti-soft rating of the other US tanks, so a single battalion has the firepower (literally, in this case) of a 150-tank brigade.

Your note about the 86th also appears to be correct. It should have the TO&E (2512) and strength of a standard infantry division.

I don't know if modders made changes to any of the above in their variants...

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/29/2019 5:40:15 AM

Ian R

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I added an Armored Cavalry Group from the ETO...

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/29/2019 10:24:33 AM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

I added an Armored Cavalry Group from the ETO...

You have chosen wisely.

... not that I'm biased, or anything.

Scouts Out!

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/29/2019 11:36:19 AM

PaxMondo

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Joel,

Dang good to see you mate! Merry Christmas and wishing you the very best in the New Year!

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 12/29/2019 12:03:49 PM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Joel,

Dang good to see you mate! Merry Christmas and wishing you the very best in the New Year!

Pax,

Same to you! It's great seeing your avatar... er, you again

All is well with me, but works continues to be all-consuming. Once the New Year starts I expect to go back to being an infrequent visitor, at best, for the foreseeable future.

Have a great 2020! All the best to you, and yours.

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RE: Late War Allied Tanks - 1/7/2020 3:40:45 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

You have chosen wisely.

... not that I'm biased, or anything.

Scouts Out!

I agree.

ALLONS!

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