Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

I have buckled down and am working to learn the game (again). My new record is April '42! I have a few questions for all those who have a stronger understanding of the game.

Gameplay Questions:

1. What do you do with "useless" LCUs and squadrons? I classify these as [S][R] units were the HQs can't be changed. In my mind these are units that were either training, garrison, or some sort of home defense units that never saw action. The same applies to planes like the T-6 Texans. Things that were not really used for combat, but for pilot training.

Garrison is what they are used for. Be sure to garrison Portland well. If it falls to a sneaky raid you lose all of the ships that are in the invisible queue. The lack of a physical shipyard on the map in that location where you could easily see the plethora of important ships being built there lulls Allied players into believing there is little risk in losing it. In thruth, it may well be the most important hex in the game to the Allies....Sorry, went on a bit of a rant there about an exploit. However, the main point is that the restricted units that cannot be bought out are so because of the need to prevent players from completely denuding a vital area. The point is that any entry pint for reinforcements is vital to defend.

2. How do you know when a pilot is done training and ready for combat? When I see the option to send a pilot to the General Pilot pool, I assume this to mean they are ready.

When they have reached a skill level acceptable to you. Most players shoot for 70 main skill/ 70 experience. You will need to train a secondary skill to get experience to 70. For fighter pilots that secondary skill should be strafing at 100 ft. The low altitude helps raise defense. Again for fighter pilots, getting Air skill to 70, will bring Experience to about 50-55 and Defense to a paltry 40-45. Switching to training Strafing at 100 ft will raise both Strafe and Defense and Experience.Working the skill training is how you get well rounded pilots ready to transfer to Reserve. All players have their own formulas..

3. At the start of the war, how come none of the Marine squadrons are carrier qualified? If it was historical then never mind, but it was impression that Marines had qualified pilots operating off aircraft carriers at all points during the war.

Don't have a good answer, but it is not a vital issue. Operating a carrier capable, but not carrier trained squadron from a carrier doesn't result in much sub par performance and they get trained in 90 days.

4. How quickly should I be pushing my troops out into the field to develop bases throughout the Pacific?

Depends on what the Japanese player is doing. Push hard where he is not pushing and cautiously where he is. Lot's depends on where you choose to set up regional hubs for supply and fuel distribution. That is a whole discussion it itself.

5. How much flexibility do I have with light/medium/heavy bombers? I know historically planes like the B-25 did a great job raiding shipping and B-17s could be used in ASW warfare, but how do I use them in game? If a B-17 has a basic ground bombing ability of 50 and and ASW level of 20, is it worth trying to develop their ASW ability? Should they be doing naval search? Same question for twin and single engine bombers.

Pilot skill in a given category is as important, if not more, than the plane type flying the mission. All squadrons should be doing some form of training. If you are searching at 50%, you should be training at 30% and resting at 20%. Just a personal formula, others will counsel slightly differently. The point is that with ASW any squadron is going to start with low skill and 60-65 is minimum skill necessary to start getting reports of attacks and hits. So choose what squadrons of what plane types to assign to TRAIN the living you know what so one day they can be useful.

6. Training ground bombing vs airfield vs port attack. Since ground bombing is the only skill category, does training in these areas actually increase port or airfield damage or does it simply indicate that an attack will focus on those targets while using ground bombing skill as the method to determine success?

Yes, the Ground skill is used for all of those missions, but training secondary missions is always useful, especially in raising overall experience and defense.

Manual:

1. Why is there no .pdf of the manual? The game is over 10 years old and there is no e-copy? I have my original manual in a box somewhere, but it doesn't explain all the little details that are in the game. For example, the ships and squadrons with #! or something else in the description.

Of course, there is a PDF of the manual, both E-Book and Printer Friendly versions. See screen shot.

UI:

1. Why is there so much math involved for the player to figure out? I think the formula for determining minimum AF size for planes was something like engine number/4200 or something. Why doesn't the aircraft data simply say Minimum AF: 4 or something like that?

Experience leads to learning certain rules of thumb such as the minimum port size needed to rearm 8" cruiser guns and the minimum airfield level for 4E operations. Don't get hung up on the arcane formulas.

2. I realize that the game is pretty old now, but I wish the information provided in the intel screen had hyperlinks. I don't know where hex (89,90) is without hunting all over the map. It would be nice to click on a hyperlinked (89,90) or city name and have the map center on it.

Wish all you want. It is what it is.

Forums:

1. What is the best way to search the forums? I was watching XTRG pull up a guide on selecting commanders on youtube, but when I searched for the thread I got a message saying no results found. In fact, I almost never find anything I search for :(

Thank you and Merry Christmas!

Edited for grammar or question clarification

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

Gameplay Questions:

3. At the start of the war, how come none of the Marine squadrons are carrier qualified? If it was historical then never mind, but it was impression that Marines had qualified pilots operating off aircraft carriers at all points during the war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

Gameplay Questions:

3. At the start of the war, how come none of the Marine squadrons are carrier qualified? If it was historical then never mind, but it was impression that Marines had qualified pilots operating off aircraft carriers at all points during the war.

Marines to this day are not trained in CV landing unless assigned to a carrier (jump jet or helo). It is a LONG and expensive process and VERY dangerous. Unless a unit is going to operate off a carrier it's not cost effective to train those pilots in such an operation. The game is highly unrealistic in it's ability to allow non-CV qualified folks to operate from a carrier. The accident rate should be a LOT higher (especially if operating in any sort of adverse weather). But it's not. This allows both sides to operate non-qualified pilots who happen to be in carrier capable aircraft from CVs without much of a penalty. Unlike most other aspects of the game that do a good job of emulating reality, this is not one of them. In truth, if there is one factor in the game that is unrealistic it's the accident casualties in all air operations. I've read statistics for the US in WW2 which say they suffered more pilot deaths in training than in actual combat. I've not read such statistics for other countries however I can only surmise that it was much the same (I've read that the rate of accidents in the RAF was higher than in the US, but not overall statistics of deaths). Of all aviation non-combat activities, a carrier landing at sea was and still is about the most dangerous evolution that a pilot can perform.

quote:

Did WWII start with zero Marine squadrons qualified to operate from carriers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Later in the war, the marines asked for and got permission to have Marine-operated CVEs so they could have their own planes flying CAS from carriers, as the marine aviators were generally viewed by all services as the best at CAS with the most developed and complete doctrine for it (though I'm not sure if it was actually implemented before the war's close). There are examples of marine squadrons operating from carriers in '44 and '45, so no doubt this is why the designers wanted to retain the carrier capabilities for marine squadrons.

quote:

no unit was carrier qualified at the start of the war nor was it specifically trained in carrier operations that I know of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188
...

4. How quickly should I be pushing my troops out into the field to develop bases throughout the Pacific?

quote:



UI:

2. I realize that the game is pretty old now, but I wish the information provided in the intel screen had hyperlinks. I don't know where hex (89,90) is without hunting all over the map. It would be nice to click on a hyperlinked (89,90) or city name and have the map center on it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

no unit was carrier qualified at the start of the war nor was it specifically trained in carrier operations that I know of.

I was curious about this topic. Using "The Location of Navy Aircraft in WW2" (or some such) I found that the USS Bennington (an Essex Class CV) had VMF 112 and VMF 123 assigned on 23 June 1945 flying F4U-1Ds and FG-1s. There were also a number of CVE's with Marine Air Groups attached but Bennington was the only Essex Class that I found with USMC air units attached.

quote:



F. MARSHALLS–MARIANAS BYPASSED ISLANDS, PELELIU,
PHILIPPINES, AND IWO JIMA
...
Aviation units operating from aircraft carriers are denoted. Units participating
in these operations are identified by a letter designating the specific operation:
A—Marshalls–Marianas Bypassed Islands 25 Dec 43–26 Mar 45
B—Peleliu 6 Sep–14 Oct 44
C—Philippines 10 Oct 44–20 Jul 45
D—Iwo Jima 15 Feb–16 Mar 45
E—Pagan and Rota Islands, Mariana Bypassed Islands 24–26 Jul 45
Detachment, HQ Squadron 1, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing 1 C—10 Mar–4 Jul 45

Marine Fighting Squadron 112 (USS Bennington [CV-20]) D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Advance Echelon, Marine Fighting Squadron 123 (USS Bennington) D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Marine Fighting Squadron 124 (USS Essex [CV-9]) C—3–22 Jan 45 D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Marine Fighting Squadron 213 (USS Essex) C—3–22 Jan 45 D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Advance Echelon, Marine Fighting Squadron 216 (USS Wasp [CV-18]) D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Advance Echelon, Marine Fighting Squadron 217 (USS Wasp)[D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45 /b]
Advance Echelon, Marine Fighting Squadron 221 (USS Bunker Hill [CV-17]) D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45
Advance Echelon, Marine Fighting Squadron 451 (USS Bunker Hill) D—15 Feb–4 Mar 45

quote:

C.3. Marine Aircraft Carrier Units
Perhaps one the Marine Corps’ major failings in World War II was its failure
to aggressively demand that Marine aviation units be deployed aboard carriers.
The primary mission of Marine aviation was “the support of the Fleet Marine
Force in landing operations and in support of troop activities in the field.”
Through 1943, land-based Marine aircraft adequately supported the infantry in
the closely grouped Solomons and on New Britain, where sufficient land bases
were within range. But 1944 was a different matter. The Central Pacific islands
were widely separated, and airfields were at a premium. Marine units operating
from carriers would have been able to support landing operations from the be-
ginning. While it is true that the Navy resisted efforts to embark Marine aviation
aboard carriers, it is also true that the Marines did not push the point. Marine
aviation had become enamored with shooting down enemy airplanes, a principal
USAAF mission, while carrier-based Navy aviation provided much of the close
air support to Marine ground units. As the Fleet Marine Force battled through
the Marshalls and Marianas, supported by the Navy and USAAF, much of the
Marine aviation was relegated to endlessly bombing bypassed, Japanese-held
eastern Marshall and Caroline Islands into coral dust.

It was not until the summer of 1944 that LtGen Vandegrift, Commandant of
the Marine Corps, began to aggressively lobby for Marines aboard carriers. The
war was expected to last into late 1946. Ground forces needed dedicated and
specialized Marine close air support from the beginning of an operation. While
all this made sense, the Navy initially balked, but the truth of the matter was
that by late 1944, the Navy was hard-pressed to provide squadrons to all of its
almost 50 escort carriers. This resulted in Marine squadrons filling gaps aboard
fleet carriers as well. The Navy’s shortages were so severe that the scheduled 20
Jan 45 Iwo Jima assault was postponed until 19 Feb 45. It had to await the
deployment of eight Marine squadrons on fleet carriers in order to have sufficient
aircraft to execute preemptive strikes in the Tokyo area. Marine escort carrier air
units were raised in the fall of 1944, squadron training was begun, and Navy air
support training units were formed to train Marine squadrons in CAS. The first
units were assigned to flattops in Feb 45.

Marine carrier-based units were deployed aboard two types of aircraft carriers:
fleet carriers (CV) and escort carriers (CVE). Marine aviation units embarked
aboard CVs were subordinate to the Navy carrier air group (CVG) but were the
sole unit aboard CVEs. Other Marine aviation units frequently operated off other
carriers but were not committed directly to combat or were merely transported
to fly into island bases, from which they conducted land-based combat opera-
tions. The first Marine unit to fly combat missions from an aircraft carrier was
Detachment, Flight Echelon, VMO-155 flying in support of the Army’s May 43
Attu Landing (Operation LANDCRAB ) from the USS Nassau (ACV-16, later rede-
signated CVE-16). Equipped with three F4F-3P photo recon fighters, the detach-
ment was the only FMF unit to operate in the North Pacific Area.

*The Essex Carrier Air Group 4 (CVG-4) was commanded by a Marine officer from Jan 45.
Marine fighting and torpedo-bombing squadrons specifically organized to op-
erate from escort aircraft carriers had the sole mission of direct support of ground
units. They were designated “(CVS)” for carrier squadron. It was originally en-
visioned that 11 CVEs would be provided to the Marine Corps, but only 6 had
been made available by V-J Day. Marine squadrons operating from fleet carriers
retained their standard organization and were not redesignated “(CVS).”

Carrier units were controlled by three echelons of command, all of which in-
cluded “group” in their designations and can be confusing. These units were
subordinate to Marine Carrier Groups, Aircraft, FMFPac established on 21 Oct
44. It controlled Marine Air Support Groups (MASG) 48 and 51 (the latter never
deployed aboard carriers) during unit training. The MASGs were each respon-
sible for four Marine Carrier Groups (MCVG), of which 16 were formed. MASG-
48’s MCVGs were each embarked aboard four Commencement Bay–class CVEs
assigned to a six-carrier division. The other two ships of Carrier Division 27
hosted Navy aviation units to fly antisubmarine and combat air patrols. Each
MCVG had a VMF(CVS) with 16 FM-2 (or F4U-1) and two F6F-5P (photo recon)
fighters, a VMTB(CVS) with 12 TBM torpedo-bombers, and a Marine Carrier
Aircraft Service Detachment (CASD) for centralized maintenance. The latter were
components of the MASG, until actually assigned to a carrier. There was no
MCVG headquarters; the senior squadron commander served in this billet. The
USS Block Island (CVE-106, not to be confused with CVE-21 lost earlier) was
equipped with a height-finder radar and could support night fighters. Its
VMF(CVS)-511 was equipped with 10 FM-2 (or F4U-1), eight F6F-3N night, and
two F6F-5P photo recon fighters.

MASG-51 (2d Division, Marine Carrier Groups) was not committed to combat,
but MASG-48, headquartered aboard USS Block Island, was (its MCVG-3 saw only
very limited combat):

The two Navy aviation–staffed CVEs rounding out the division were the USS
Kula Gulf (CVE-108) and USS Siboney (CVE-112). It was planned for eight CVEs
with MCVGs embarked to provide CAS during the invasion of Japan. MCVG-5
and 6 were embarked on USS Salerno Bay and USS Puget Sound on V-J Day but
did not see combat. MCVG-7 and 8 were not embarked aboard CVEs until Nov
45.

Besides carrier operations, another shipboard aviation initiative was consid-
ered. The U.S. Navy was impressed by the IJN’s use of float planes for attack
and reconnaissance from undeveloped forward island bases lacking airfields. It
was proposed that twin float-equipped Marine scout-bombers and fighters (pre-
sumably, Curtiss XSB2C-2 Helldivers and Grumman F4F-6S Wildcats) be based
on specially built seaplane tenders to support advanced base operations. Four
Currituck-class seaplane tenders (AV-7, 11–13) were built between 1944 and 1945
for this role and fitted with flush-deck catapults. This plan was never imple-
mented, however.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue188

I'm asking about the USS Hammondsport and Kittyhawk. They are listed as AKV but have cargo capacity, but 0 aircraft capacity. However, Kittyhawk does provide seaplane support. Are they mislabeled?

Also, how many pilots should I have per group or squadron? I see the new to have a few extra in case of losses, but do I need 15 pilots for 4 B-17s or 26 pilots for 18 fighters, etc? Do they train faster as a smaller pool instead of a large pool?